Death and Funerals

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MakPo's picture
Death and Funerals

Who is the funeral for; the deceased or the friends and family? I want your opinion. What do you guys think?

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Well I have to hope it is for

Well I have to hope it is for the friends and family; since it ain't going to do the stiff any good.

algebe's picture
Funerals are for undertakers,

Funerals are for undertakers, most of whom could teach used car salesmen a trick or two.

But here's a story I once heard from an undertaker who visited a Rotary Club I once belonged to. This happened in Christchurch, New Zealand. A man's father died. So he put his father into the front seat of his pick-up truck (with a seat belt on of course) and drove around all of the undertakers in the city looking for the cheapest price. After negotiating the lowest possible fee, he got a further discount by agreeing to dig the grave himself. The undertaker managed to force the father, who was now in rigor mortis, into the cheapest box, and a couple of days later they had the funeral. Unfortunately, the son hadn't dug the grave quite wide enough, so the coffin stuck at the top. "No problem", said the son, and jumped up and down on top of the box until it slid down.

Now that's what I call a proper funeral. Leave 'em laughing.

Tin-Man's picture
@Algebe Re: "Now that's

@Algebe Re: "Now that's what I call a proper funeral. Leave 'em laughing."

THAT I would have loved to see! LMAO

SunDog's picture
Laugh lots in life b/c there

Laugh lots in life b/c there is no laughter in the grave.

Tin-Man's picture
@ShaMan Re: "Laugh lots in

@ShaMan Re: "Laugh lots in life b/c there is no laughter in the grave."

Unless you are buried with a clown. Then - who knows? - there may be a possibility. (Sorry. Couldn't resist. lol)

Tin-Man's picture
Basically what Nyar said. A

Basically what Nyar said. A funeral does absolutely nothing for the deceased. Zero, zip, nada, zilch. In my opinion, funerals (or whatever ceremony of choice for a deceased loved one) are strictly for those left behind. The dead are dead. When a person dies, absolutely NOTHING anybody does from that point on will affect the deceased. But for those left behind, a funeral/ceremony of some sort helps bring a sense of closure. It allows many to pay their respects and start the recovery process of learning to continue their lives without the one who died. Maybe not for everybody, of course. Everybody grieves/mourns differently. Plus, funerals and death ceremonies vary greatly worldwide from culture to culture. But in the end, it is pretty much always for the benefit of those still living.

CyberLN's picture
It can serve to remind us

It can serve to remind us that now is all we have with those for whom we care so we best take advantage of it.

thingamajig's picture
Are you sure this is a good

Are you sure this is a good place to ask this question? :D I don't think you'll get varied answers

Are funerals organized with the deceased in mind? Sure. Are they, ultimately, anything but a form of therapy for the living? No proof for that, so by default, no.

Grinseed's picture
Funerals are formalised

Funerals are formalised rituals of closure for the bereaved. They're necessary, for the bereaved but useless for the dead.
I attended a high anglican church funeral for an uncle of mine and could not help but laugh as the service came straight out of Monty Python..."we who are unworthy to feed on scraps from your table" anglican church..."you who are so really really big. We're all so impressed down here (sic)" Monty Python.

Cognostic's picture
MakPo: Funerals are for the

MakPo: Funerals are for the living. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance. The funeral can assist people regardless of their stage of grief.

Grinseed's picture
I recall that some of the

I recall that some of the earliest excavations of Neanderthal bones gave the impression that the deceased had been buried in s ceremony involving the placement of wildflowers around the body.
We've been doing funerals far longer than we have been worshipping monotheistic deities.

turning_left's picture
They're for the friends and

They're for the friends and family. But this also makes me think of when my (atheist) sister died and my parents wanted to have a very Christian funeral, including a come-to-Jesus moment. My immediate and extended family are almost exclusively fundamentalist Christians. I took a firm stance that the funeral shouldn't proselytize for a religion my sister didn't believe in. I think she'd be pissed if she knew that her death was used to further their religious agenda. But of course, it didn't actually affect her. We compromised on using "neutral, nice" scriptures like some of the Psalms as a comforting gesture instead of an evangelical one.

Grinseed's picture
I've been thinking all day

I've been thinking all day about what you did for your sister's memory at her funeral. Bloody fantastic. My mind boggles that anyone would have even suggested a 'come to Jesus moment' for any funeral, but then I find I underestimate theists all the time.

turning_left's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

Thanks so much for those kind words. It was such an intense time with everyone's emotions running high. I think my family's intentions were good, for the most part. My sister had died by suicide and my family wanted to give "hope" to those who attended the funeral. And to them, that was to give the opportunity for relationship with God and eternal life. But even after we agreed to abandon the evangelism, I had no control over what the preacher spoke about. Even though I'd had a conversation with him about keeping things away from "salvation" and sticking to encouragement, his sermon was about how God could forgive even the very worst of sinners - prostitutes, murderers, thieves, etc. All of this with a nod to my sister's life of sin since, as a 30-something woman, she drank alcohol and had premarital sex. I was livid, and all of her friends were aghast. I'd definitely underestimated him. I'm still pissed about it almost 10 years later.

LogicFTW's picture
I would be still pissed too.

I would be still pissed too. At least you can direct some or most of the anger towards that preacher instead of family, even if their views are very different then yours and your sisters, and they pushed their view onto you guys.

Always cracks me up.. in both laughter and anger when religious evangelical white men say they are the most persecuted people... When it is the opposite so often, where they push their opinions on others by every means possible.

I have attended multiple funerals where the person that died was quite religious, I do not push my opinion/agenda on anyone when I attend or even help organize the funeral, but I too have seen others try to push their religious agenda onto funerals for atheist or even people of a less popular religion for the family/friends.

 
 

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No One's picture
Funerals are for the living.

Funerals are for the living.

Chipperfhu's picture
I believe funerals are for

I believe funerals are for those left behind to help with the grieving process. While I'm still around, however, it would be kinda nice to know at least the family dog will miss my belly rubs. (her belly not mine)
I agree with Algebe, it's preyed upon sometimes to enrich the undertaker. It's a good idea, if possible, to preplan things so loved ones are not pressured to wipe out the ole piggy bank.

LogicFTW's picture
Funerals are obviously for

Funerals are obviously for the living, the dead by definition cannot care. Unless of course you believe in some sort of "one's own conscious and memories" lives on after the death of the body. So far all evidence ever found points to that nothing of that sort happens upon death.

Funerals are also quite often quite the racket that fleeces the living of money. 5000 dollars for a wood casket? 1000's more for the cemetary plot, burial? Perhaps 1000's more for a headstone? Sure people are welcome to spend money how they want, but it feels an awful lot like profit making on people suffering through a terrible moment in their lives.

I personally am fine with videos, pictures and memories of the person to remember them buy, rather than spending 10 grand in vain attempt to briefly, (in the grand scheme of things,) try to immortalize the resting place of the body and having a ceremony. Even my own parents know that if they want some sort of grand funeral gesture they better save up and set aside money for it. I am happy to help support them while they are alive, but care little about spending large amounts of money for them after they are dead.
 
 

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Grinseed's picture
Apart from missing my late

Apart from missing my late wife, one of the lesser abiding disappointments following her funeral was the discovery that the funeral planners had taken my adult children aside and convinced them the best thing they could do for me would be to buy a twin memorial site at the metropolitan cemetery, which I eventually paid for.

My good wife's ashes reside there in a garden. The price I paid for my final resting place for my ashes makes the soil in that space worth more than gold, but this bit of the city that I reluctantly and unequivocally own, despite my children's hopes and kind intentions may remain empty long after I am gone. I have no desire for a funeral, memorial service or resting place. I haven't worked out the details yet because I have quite a way to go despite being way over the wrong side of 60. I know I want simple and sparse.

I only rarely visit the twin site in the cemetery because I find the whole place so dreary and depressing, despite the bright blooms and constant maintenance of the gardens. It's a place of lives departed for me, a reminder of the intolerably sad day when her service (secular after her wishes) was held in the ornate chapel nearby… I remember, every single day, a vivacious intelligent challenging woman who loved life and for all her good sense, still loved me. The cemetery clouds all that memory with melancholy. It remains for me a piece of specific purpose real estate and has nothing to do with my girl's life.

My wife, my father, my mother and my indomitable old grandmother all live in my memories, in a way that mere brick, mortar and metal plaques could never, never equal.

LogicFTW's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed
Your above comment affected me more than in normal for me on anonymous message boards. Perhaps because you think very similar about at least this subject as I do and perhaps it makes me more empathetic. Your comment seemed like an honest and real thoughts on later life and loss of a partner.

I also just do not see people speak frankly and open about this sort of stuff.

Thank you for sharing.

Grinseed's picture
@ Logic, it is the anonymity

@ Logic, it is the anonymity of message boards that gives one freedom to be frank. As Wilde said "Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth". Age works like a mask too
.
When I was younger I would never have written (or even said in public) what I have above, and elsewhere, out of a sense of dignity and the overly polite view that one should not burden others with intimate expressions, but being on the wrong side of sixty I am emboldened to say whatever the hell I like. :D

I'm glad you appreciate my offering. I'd like to think I am sharing my experience of what it is to be human. We should all do it more often, on and offline.

Tin-Man's picture
@Grinseed Re: Sharing the

@Grinseed Re: Sharing the truth

*standing ovation*....... And, yes, thank you for sharing.

LogicFTW's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

I'd like to think I am sharing my experience of what it is to be human. We should all do it more often, on and offline.

Emphatically agree.

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