The other day i posted on FB about how prayer doesn't do a shit when it comes to rain because rain will come anyways regardless people praying or not , and then my big sister who is into God came to say that i bash religious people and i must repent . While i calmly tried to explain that it is the truth and she doesn't need to make a fuss about it , she kept using strong words and try to lecture me about being moral and how i am such a stupid person and dare to stand above other .
I think no , i feel quite humble and have no ill intention for religious people , yet it is quite funny that they try to make themselves the better person so that they always right .
What about you guys , you think what kind of person you are , being an atheist ?
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Howdy, Kampfer. Excellent question.
Have you ever seen the movie "The Matrix"? There is the pivotal scene where Neo is asked to choose between the blue and the red pill. (Look it up on YouTube if you haven't seen the movie.) Anyway, bear in mind that no analogy is ever perfect, and this one may be a little over-simplified, but it is at least fairly close. Basically, in the movie, if Neo chooses the blue pill, he continues to stay in the matrix and continues to believe everything in that world is real. If he chooses the red pill, on the other hand, the truth of his existence will be revealed to him, but there will be no going back to the world he once thought was real. In a way, atheism is pretty much the same. Sorta like having the blinders taken off, you could say. However, it doesn't make us any better or any less than anybody else. It simply means we see things for what they truly are, and perceive reality for what it truly is. Nothing more. Nothing less. Otherwise, we are just..... people, complete with all the same merits and flaws as anybody else in the world. Sadly, the bias of most all theists prevent them from seeing that basic truth. And, unfortunately, there is no red pill to offer them to help In that respect. It is just a slow and tedious process that has to develop over time. Again, this is not a perfect analogy, but I do hope it helps a little, at least.
"atheism is pretty much the same. Sorta like having the blinders taken off, you could say. However, it doesn't make us any better or any less than anybody else. It simply means we see things for what they truly are, and perceive reality for what it truly is."
Hmm, over the years I have developed a sense of when we overstep ourselves, epistemologically speaking. I'd think we can start with the fact that an atheist does not believe in a deity or deities, and the fact that the physical material world exists. So far we're not making claims we cannot evidence. Whilst I agree religious beliefs are subjective (in my subjective opinion), I doubt they seem any less 'real' to many who hold them.
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"Sadly, the bias of most all theists prevent them from seeing that basic truth."
I'll settle for demanding proper evidence be demonstrated commensurate for any and all claims they make. So far I'm decidedly underwhelmed by theological claims, and the mishmash of common logical fallacies they seem to find compelling.
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"there is no red pill to offer them to help In that respect. It is just a slow and tedious process that has to develop over time. Again, this is not a perfect analogy, but I do hope it helps a little, at least."
Again I'd settle for getting the average theist to understand that the burden of proof is theirs, and that science and logic are not subjugated by personal subjective beliefs. A red pill that did this though would be cool, I'd be pleased with that.
@Sheldon Re: Matrix analogy
Just wanted to give a quick thanks to you for taking the time to break down my post and expand on it. You have an uncanny ability to express and clarify things very clearly and concisely and logically that I find remarkable. Nicely done.
That's very generous of you I must say, but most of the time when I read what I've posted I am merely appalled at the typos., and grammatical errors I've made. I am forever correcting posts when I spot these later. However apropos to the limits of epistemology and theistic hubris, here is another quote from the late Christopher Hitchens that might contain some salience, and of course I always liked it as I am something of a fan of his writing.
"“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”
@Sheldon Re: Grammer
Relieved to know I am not the only one on here who is hyper-OCD about his grammer, spelling, and punctuation. LOL
@T-man: Grammer
i do have grammar problem thing. ahahah. like i said, I'm not that good in English and using different words from it. coz its not my usual language. i'm from the Philippines.
peace out T-man
love your views and humor XD
@Q Re: Language
Don't sweat it, bro. I've got news for ya, buddy. Your English on here is actually better at times than a few folks on here whose first language IS English. lol
There's a distinction here to be made between better and worth more. I'm worth more than a lot of people. I don't depend on government aid, I work, I provide a service, I create forms of entertainment. As far as monetary benefit to the country or state, entertainment value to individuals, and service value to people, I'm worth more than many. Am I better than anyone? Hell no! I'm not the best at anything, my skill set isn't the most broad, versatile, or honed, and I could certainly do better than what I do now. And even if I did see myself as better, that's a character flaw that has no relation to atheism. Plenty of theists and atheists alike are pompous assholes. It's not the belief or doctrine to which you subscribe, but the attitude which you exude on your own.
Very nicely put, Jared. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I agree with Jarred. If ""standing above others"" means that I don't share there theist beliefs because they have no proof that gods or god exists, then Yes... please identify me as someone standing.
Let's be clear, the believers don't like us to challenge the crazy belief systems... just like a baby doesn't want anyone to take away their security blanket... and for similar reasons.
What Kampfer did was challenge their dogma. Instead of providing proof that gods exist [or at least good evidence] Kampfer's sister's response was to suggest that atheists are arrogant... an ad hominim attack.
LOL. I love it when Christians pull the ole "You think you are better." or "You think you are smarter." card. I am not the one with a direct connection to the all powerful, omnipotent, omnipresent, non-corporal, creator of the universe. He does not talk to me and I do not talk to him. I have never been given any special knowledge by divine inspiration. I have never imagined that I could tell anyone else what God thinks or how he wants us to behave for the simple reason that I do not believe it exists. I do not have a book of divine morality to guide my life and I do not get instructions from your God. Please explain how I am more intelligent or better than you? If you really believe you can talk to God, how could you think I was smarter or better in some way? Who is really trying to be the smart one here?
@Cognostic Re: "I love it when Christians pull the ole "You think you are better." or "You think you are smarter." card."
Aaaaand just like that, the entire, "Nanny-nanny boo-boo stick your head in doo-doo!" argument I have been working on for so long gets tossed RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW! Now I have to start all over again. All those years wasted, dammit. * sad sigh*
Hmmm. "Better" than a theist would be subjective. Better how ? More common sense maybe.
And then also, impo (and several studies I have read) atheist do seem to have a higher average intelligence.... But"average" might not say anything about me in particular.....
That said, I am proud to be a self thinker.
Ouch Kampfer! I reckon your bruises haven't disappeared yet, after that savaging.
I think the reason some theists do this is, is because their beliefs are such a huge part of who they are, they think having a laugh at their beliefs is the same as laughing at them. It isn't, of course, but it can be very hard to get that nuance across. All that research saying atheists are better educated, more intelligent, yada yada, can't help matters either. Neither did Richard Dawkin's "brights" bit. The good news is not all theists take it personally. I'm an atheist in a family of Catholics- some of them regular church goers- and they know my criticism of religion is not a criticism of them. My 70 something mother's the funniest: she laughs at the stuff I read to or show her, then looks kinda guilty.
I certainly don't think I'm "better" than a theist. Why would I, when they want exactly the same thing I want? Peace. Justice. Love. The only point of difference between us is how we get there. They look to god. I look to humanity.
very well said, sushi. i couldn't agree more. extra thumbs up..!!!