Hello everyone!
I am a newly confirmed atheist. I've spent a vast majority of my life wanting to believe. I tried to force myself into believing by attending churches with friends ( christian, catholic, seventh day adventist). When I was seven I made my mother take me to Sunday school, she really was opposed to the idea as she is a wiccan and therefore has a rather unfriendly view of bible people in general, however she let me go to make up my own mind about it. I've looked into (admittedly not very deeply) many other belief systems like buddhism., mormon, the rosicrutians and even scientology. However, none of these resonated with me. I have come to the conclusion that I simply cannot believe in things I cannot experience in the physical world.
My problem is this, now that I have admitted to myself that I am atheist I find myself leaning toward anti-theism, and I don't want to be a bigot. I have no problem with race, you could be purple with orange spots and I have no trouble with that, same goes for lesbians/gays and all other connotations of that, but when someone tells me they are Christian I automatically assume they're an idiot, If Muslim they're probably beating and raping and/or killing people. I know intellectually that not ALL of them are stupid or violent but with media and the internet I am seeing more and more of this represented. Anyway I suppose what I'm asking is has anyone else found this happening to themselves and if so how do you deal with? Is it simply a matter of avoidance? For example 'Don't read the comments section on an athiest YouTube video'.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
Well, to be fair, religion isn't really like race or sexual preference. Neither race or sexual preference are are the defining characteristics of who they are, whereas, religion demands to be. While a black or gay persons stance on stem cell research isn't really tied to how black or gay they are, a religious persons stance usually is directly related to how religious they are. As such, it is rather hard NOT to lump them together, after all, the entire purpose of their organized religion IS lumping. Funny enough, the brainwashing runs so deep they see even something as simple as attacking the flood myth as a personal attack, even if they themselves don't even believe in the flood.
I do, however, take your point. Far be it from me to try to tell you to abandon perspective on individuals, in favor of a stereotype or archetype the gestalt mind has created, as that would also be somewhat unreasonable.
Anti-theism is against religion, not against religious people.
Religious people are not idiots (though most of the agnostics I have been talking to are indeed stupid).
A religious person can be a honest person and an anti-theist a dishonest person.
Beware of discriminating people on the base of their beliefs or appearance.
I am a militant anti-theist.
There was a time when I was an extremely convicted Christian, of one particular domination and doctrine of Christianity especially. My viewpoint and faith was so crystal clear to me that I thought I could convince anyone of the "truth" if they would just give me 10 minutes of sincere attention. I considered everyone who didn't see things my way to be either an idiot or someone with a hard heart who didn't want to see the truth.
Eventually, I came to learn that I was the idiot. I came to learn that other people have their reasons, perspectives, influences, and emotions that led them to their beliefs, and from their viewpoint, their beliefs are just as "true" and logical as mine had been. Nowadays I have a much more humble worldview. Yes I totally disagree with scores of people on religious and other beliefs, but I realize that each one's worldview makes total sense to them. Most people are simply a product of their environment and upbringing. Slowly, time and reason can make some people (like me) change. Other people will never change, regardless of what is shoved in front of their face. This is just the human condition. Don't let yourself become a misanthrope over it. Accept it, love people, be patient, be understanding, and try to enjoy opportunities to engage in rational discussions that may enlighten others.
I'm appreciative of your perspective, and your sentiment.
Well said.
Thank you very much Conor. I will do my very best to avoid the knee 'jerk' (see what i did there) reaction and remember there are many reasons people believe what they do. I have this issue though that most of the religious people I know personally are very belligerent about their beliefs and this makes it difficult for us to have a reasonable rational discussion aboot this stuff. We get along fine so long as we avoid the subject. I think in future I will just do my best to avoid the subject with everyone and stop trying to understand it as I probably never will anyway, no matter how many holy books I read or religious people I talk to.
Well said, and a good share!
It gives me hope and a sincere joy to see more people like you joining the community, Conor!
May your days be peaceful and trouble free!
Are you really concerned about which label to use for your non-belief? It's just a label. You're not picking a denomination. Relax.
:-)
I couldn't agree more. This is why I refuse to engage in the arguments about what atheist means. I don't think god is real, people tell me that makes me an atheist, so be it. If someone disagrees, I'm fine with that, but don't complain to me, take it up with the people who call me an atheist.
Indeed. Whereas I'm quite proud to shout that I'm an atheist to everyone I meet lol
However, atheism is kind of a half-the-glass title. It means that we don't believe in something.... Which doesn't mean that we "don't believe in anything."
People need to understand that we have our own beliefs too, but they are usually more founded in logic, reason, science, history, astronomy, physics.... Or even just video games. Usually anything but a religion, but being irreligious doesn't disqualify us from belief in something!
Atheism is not nihilism, basically. Anyway, good comment!
Just to clear up the confusion about the meaning of some Labels:
Theist = the belief in a theistic god. The type of god which is omniscient, omnipotent and loves. (a belief)
A-Theist = Not Theist, (A= NOT) can be anything which is not a theist. (eg: baby) ( a state of being)
Anti-Theist = Against Theism (Anti = against) The claim that theism does more harm then good to the world. (a belief)
If you understand the harm Theism does to the world, then you are an anti-theist. (like me and most atheists)
Science answers the questions, Religion makes you believe in unknown Myths.
This is the difference between knowledge and faith.
So I think it's better to call Theists, Mytheist (Myth+Theist).
Means someone who believes in religious myths about unproven historic events.
@Reza
“Religion makes you believe in unknown Myths.”
What do you mean by “Unknown Myths”?
“So I think it's better to call Theists, Mytheist (Myth+Theist).
Means someone who believes in religious myths about unproven historic events.”
Sorry for having to disagree with you but theists believe the fantasies of the theologians, not the myths. I am the one who believes in the myths and I am not a theist at all.
You are right, however, in mentioning unproven historical events. The myths are faded reports of YET unproven historical events; not of events that have been proven by science to be figments of the imagination of the ancients!
Theism is the people who define it. To eradicate theism is to eradicate people. To be anti-theist is to denounce people who define theism and give it life. The notion of eradicating theism from people's psyches is not a noble cause. To take it from those who need such systems of belief to give weight and meaning to their lives is not just militant, it's arrogant and probably bordering on psychotic, considering the times we live in and the error of acting upon such thinking. If I had to wager what would occur if such a force was imposed upon belief systems, I'd side with the theists to win such an unholy war.
Theism is to human thinking as the Earth was to the Sun pre Galileo (Copernicus and Kepler). Time will route out the truth and the fiction will fall away unceremoniously to the annals of man's superstitious past. No manner of anti-theist chest-thumping and stumping is going to influence people until they humble themselves before their world. Then, no one will need atheists or anti-theists babbling on and on about nothing, which is what they believe in context.
“In questions of science the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.” Galileo.
@Pitar
“The notion of eradicating theism from people's psyches is not a noble cause.”
You have it all wrong Mr. Pitar!
I am a militant atheist doing everything in my power to eradicate religion, but I don’t give a damn about religious people. They are lost causes to me. My intention is to prevent the clergy and the state form instilling into the minds (psyches!! What a theologian’s expression) of the children of the theists the poison of religiosity.
Nice sermon but you chose the wrong temple to deliver it.
P.S. And since you post in this board, you have the obligation to reply when addressed.
@Jonathan
You are correct, the label thing is what I was worried aboot. Your comment helped me to realize that there are many labels I could place on myself and surprisingly anti-theist is not one of them. I am not really against religion, many religions and religious people are quite peaceful. I am an atheist, but I am also anti-bigotry, anti-violence, anti-indoctrination and pro-choice (not just concerning abortion). Most of the religions I can think of are very divided from person to person due to their own interpretations; one christian may believe it is okay to blow up an abortion clinic while another may find the very idea of doing it abhorrent. Is this religions fault or the individual? You could argue it is religion's fault for saying it is a sin and these people will burn in hell fire, or you could blame the individual for forgetting that murder is one of the big 10 and (in their belief system) God is the judge and will decide in the end what to do with the people involved. I, personally, blame the individual for being a self-righteous d-bag.
Well, I am all down for blaming individuals for their own actions, but the influence of religion should not be underestimated by any measure. There was a preacher not all that long ago spewing bile about how we could get rid of AIDS by killing all the homosexuals, and another that said that Ebola was gods punishment for gay marriage, that kind of stuff being thrown from the pulpit can definitely influence people in the congregation(especially those with a mental disorder). Shouldn't we hold the people behind the pulpit responsible if someone is killed because of their active encouragement? I am not so sure things are as cut and dry as we might like them to be.
Arizona pastor wants all gay people killed for an "AIDS free Christmas"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7Sixv7uQOM
This guy is just like a nazi, spewing immoral propaganda.
On that (nazi) note, did you know that Hitler was a devout Catholic? It was another reason that he disliked the Jews, which adds to the list of weird facts about the nazis.
They (many of) were christians, and yet they turned their 'state' into their 'religion'.... Wacky people do wacky irrational things. Ah! And Mussolini helped construct the Vatican, was hailed by a pope as 'a good man', and so on...
Our world is a truly insane place. But at least it's getting better!
Sure.
This is a good article by Michael Sherlock.
"The Atheist Atrocities Fallacy – Hitler, Stalin & Pol Pot"
https://michaelsherlockauthor.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/the-atheist-atroc...
This page, has lots of resources on Hitler and Nazism. (I haven't even gone through most of it)
"Hitler's Christianity"
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
Just the "Nazi photos" page alone, is worth the visit.
Even if it somehow were proven that Hitler was in fact NOT a Christian, his armies were and the propaganda machine used Christianity.
Isn't it funny how if a heavy metal band sings about burning schools, and someone burns a school... The heavy metal band is held responsible: Yet if a preacher TOLD people to go burn schools, and someone burned a school... Nothing happens to the preacher? Tack 'god' or 'christ' on it here in the USA and you get an almost automatic get-outta-jail-free card.... Which is ridiculous.
They should be held accountable, just as someone who yells 'Fire! Fire!' in a crowded theater is held accountable.
I agree, most things are not cut and dry. I had a conversation once with a very sweet (in most respects) christian lady who said all AIDS victims should have been put on an island like the lepers. She didn't blame it on homosexuality though which was kind of refreshing. I'm of the opinion that any propagator of hate should be held accountable as well as the person or persons who act upon such prompting.
@Desiderata
"surprisingly anti-theist is not one of them. I am not really against religion, many religions and religious people are quite peaceful."
Anti-Theism is not against religion but against theism.
You are also mixing up the effects of theism "many religions and religious people are quite peaceful." with what they are.
Basically you are saying that the end justifies the means.
(not that there aren't bad ends to their beliefs, but let us ignore that for now)
So if you teach to your kids how to rape people it is fine as long as they do not do it because you thought them to ignore what you say too.
You are also contradictory:
Anti-theism main agenda is to remove indoctrination and make it illegal to rape your child's mind with things you yourself do not understand.( like; why god is love when murdering his own son?)
Then you say that you are "anti-indoctrination and pro-choice".
What exactly do you not agree with anti-theism since up till now you seem to agree perfectly with anti-theism?
I am not against the belief in god. Go right ahead and believe what you will. I am against forcing others to believe in it/him/her.
I realize many theists do not give their children a choice and that should be illegal but I am not against the belief provided you are old enough to understand what you are believing and that there are other options and you're not forcing it on others. This, I know, is a pretty tall order. It's not necessarily the belief that is the problem, it is what many people do with that belief.
Anti-theism is not against people's freedom to believe but against theism.
Against the idea of having a god which will send you to hell if you disagree with him, against indoctrination, etc....
You can believe what you want, but anti-theism is the belief that theism does more harm then good, it has nothing to do with forcing other people to believe something.
This is like in a game.
You have Team A and Team B
Team A plays against Team B to win a game.
It does not mean That Team A wants That No One can play for team B.
It just wants to show that Team A is better then Team B
Anti-theism shows that life would be better without Theism. That is all.
You can believe what you want.
I don't quite understand the built in animosity toward the label anti-theist. To me the opposite of anti-theist is "pro-theist" not atheist. I find it hard to understand the position "pro-theist atheist"
"pro-theist atheist"
Those are 2 different positions that one can hold at the same time.
1-"pro-theist"
2-"atheist"
If you are a "pro-theist atheist" it would mean that although you lack belief in a theistic god, you have the belief that theism does more good to the world than harm.
People in this group are more numerous then i would like but they simply lack understanding of the harm Theism causes.
It comes from hundreds (nay, thousands now) of years of clergy-statesmen holding 'witch hunts' of all dissenters of the church's power...
We must remember that witches aren't real... But in movies and books they're portrayed frequently as menacing, powerful and wicked beings.... Why? Because the christian labels applied to pagan rituals made them 'witchcraft' and therefore 'evil' and 'works of satan/the opponent/whatever else'.
Atheism is given a similar, unfortunate and entirely unfair stigma. Church leaders used to brutally murder atheists who 'would dare' speak out against the church, and decry us as heretics, liars, evil fools, etc.
Since not many ever bothered to correct the church on these issues (witches don't exist and atheists aren't baby eating mongrels) the stigmas stuck, even into the modern day.
Slowly but surely that is changing... I tell people all the time about how in my past job I pulled a man from a burning car, stopped bleeding for several older women in a bad crash, helped a mother find her lost son in the wilderness outside of town.... And when they tell me I did great work, I then tell them I'm an atheist and did it because I believe in protecting the single life people have. I could not care any less if they feel offended, they have no reason to be... And eventually they may begin to rethink their preconceptions! One can hope!
Thanks, I'm clear on what it is. I just flummoxed that it is.
I, personally, don't hate theists. I just hate their religion. It's not their fault they're idiots, it's how they were raised. They were taught that religion all of their life, and now they don't know any better. Sadly, they may never know any better..
You hit the nail on the head, Austin!
100% of human beings born are Atheists. If anyone doubted this, they should raise someone without EVER introducing religion to them. A man-made god would undoubtedly require man to make himself known to man. Ya know?
I don't hate theists either, and I don't hate their 'god' 'gods' 'christ', 'muhammed' or 'ghosts' or whatever (I can't actually hate something that doesn't exist, or exaggerated claims!), but I absolutely, positively hate, despise, and angrily oppose their dogmatic religions... They are poison, nothing more or less.
Good post!
Pages