What's your comeback......

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PolishGuy's picture
What's your comeback......

……for when a xristion offers up the bible as proof. I don’t normally go out of my way to argue with religious types as I find it to be a waste of my time and effort. I stay away from talking about religion and politics as I don’t debate well but instead get angry and start shouting. But, for those times when they knock on the door or approach me on my property the discussion usually winds up including the claim that “it’s written in the bible” as if that’s enough proof. I then ask where’s the footnotes or annotations to support the basis of the claims in the book which most times winds up with a mean-spirited tone exclaiming “it’s the word of god”. The last time this happened, a couple of months ago, I got angry and blurted back “your god’s a fake, your religions a hoax and the book you base it all on is poorly written fiction. So why don’t you treat your religion as your personal porn stash and keep it to yourself; the rest of us don’t want to see or hear about it”. What’s your favorite reply? PG.

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David Killens's picture
I ask them what a circular

I ask them what a circular argument is, and define it for them. Then I point out that the bible and the religion are a circular argument, therefore a logical fallacy.

"Examples of Circular Reasoning: The Bible is true, so you should not doubt the Word of God."

This argument rests on your prior acceptance of the Bible as truth.

One more weapon in any debater's arsenal is the history of the bible. That history is open for anyone willing to explore it, and any casual understanding of the bible is that the actual book(s) was written hundreds of years after the death of jesus, by an unknown number of anonymous authors. Their argument is that it is the word of god, my argument is that it was heavily edited and revised by people to suit the agenda of those who wrote the bible.

I don't get angry or upset, my intent is to make them uncomfortable, angry, and upset. Stick to logical arguments and valid proof. Be the hammer, not the nail.

BigE4933's picture
In my grammar school years,

In my grammar school years, the Bible was THE word of god. Now days, that’s changed to the INSPIRED word of god. To me that is a huge difference. I guess not many were believing the original claim. As far as being inspired, I think inspired by any group that had an agenda to push.

Tin-Man's picture
Hey there, Big E. Welcome to

Hey there, Big E. Welcome to the AR. Always nice to have another "words of wisdom" source in our little community. Please make yourself at home. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

mickron88's picture
ehem.....(whispering gesture)

ehem.....(whispering gesture) t-man.. you're talking to an old member..look at his profile....just keep it cool...let me do the talking

hahahah....hi there P-guy..!!!

nice to have you back...its refreshing seeing old members coming back on track...
hope you could be around for a while bro...

peace out

Tin-Man's picture
@Q

@Q

Yo, bro. Go put on your glasses. LOL I was welcoming Big E. I know Mr. Polish has been here before. (Good to see him back, by the way.)

mickron88's picture
yeah..thats why i get one big

yeah..thats why i get one big disagree button..hahah...

anyway..speaking of my glasses, now where did i put it...??

arakish's picture
Polish Guy: What’s your

Polish Guy: What’s your favorite reply? ⇒ ...when they knock on the door or approach me on my property...

Well, in this instance, they ain't never gonna be on my property since the only entrance is a long driveway with fenced lots to either side; thus, they only have one ≅ 3.5 meter wide entrance, unless they use a helicopter, which has a large, easily seen sign with the following:

To hell with the dog. Beware of Owner! Religionists will be shot on sight. Survivors will be hung by neck. Atheist? Hell, come on in for a brew, Dude.

The sign is 180cm by 120cm (5.9ft by 3.9ft), soo... It cannot be missed. And it has worked exceptionally well. I have seen one vehicle stop in front of the sign, read it, then back out and leave. Only one so far. Of course, I also live so far out in the "boonies" where coyote packs, mostly at night, will even threaten us humans. Thus, the reason I do have a gun.

And if I am confronted elsewhere, I simply say, "Until you can show me hard empirical evidence, I ain't got to believe anything you say." And, most often, they will ask what is hard empirical evidence and I'll tell them to research it because they have not researched the veracity of the Bible. Then walk away. Usually, if I ever see the same persons again, they won't bother me.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
What's my comeback to a

What's my comeback to a Christian using the bible as proof of itself? Hmmm.... Not really sure, to be honest. I have yet to be able to stop my uncontrollable laughter before he/she walks away in irritation.

Sky Pilot's picture
Tin-Man,

Tin-Man,

If a person wanted to be a smart ass he could always say that since he comes from a long line of bastards he can't join the assembly of the Lord.

Deuteronomy 23:2 (KJV) = "2 A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord."

Tin-Man's picture
@Dio

@Dio

Ten generations back, huh? Hmmmm.... Well, it does stand to reason there MUST BE a bastard back there somewhere within all that lineage. Neat little bit of trivia for the day. Thanks. *grin*

Sky Pilot's picture
Tin-Man,

Tin-Man,

"Ten generations back, huh? Hmmmm...."

During Jim Crow days American Christians used Bible logic to prohibit interracial marriages, some going back to the fourth generation. So when you hear a person say that laws should be Bible-based they are really saying that they want segregation. If someone knocks on your door ask him if he wants laws based on the Bible. If he says "yes" then he's a bigot. If you don't like such bigots then simply tell the person to go ____ ______.

Cognostic's picture
Written by who? No one

Written by who? No one knows who the authors of the Gospels were. Seven of the epistles attributed to Paul are not actually written by him. None of it was written during the alleged life of Jesus.

You do not have a bible. There are hundreds of bibles in print today and they are all different. There were thousands of different bibles written before the bibles we have today and they are all different. There are no original copies of anything called "The Bible" And are you even aware of the fact that 75 books have been removed from your bible?

Today's Bible is not even the Copies of the copies ......of the Original - Dr.Bart D Ehrman(phd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAZvK2l-cuY

BigE4933's picture
I am not harsh with those who

I am not harsh with those who believe in a god. I understand that they came to a conclusion based on what they have learned and believed true up to this point. Just like myself.
If the Bible is pushed at me, I simple explain they are stories of which some are true and some not. And we don’t know fully which are which.
I don’t even see that Jesus wanted us to believe in a god. Rather he taught that we should believe in ourselves. The life of Jesus is so poorly documented that little can be taken as fact. It is the teaching of Jesus that brings me comfort in atheism.

Sky Pilot's picture
Big E,

Big E,

"I don’t even see that Jesus wanted us to believe in a god. Rather he taught that we should believe in ourselves."

Yeshua (Jesus) said that people have to follow his commandments and to believe in him. It was all about him.

Sapporo's picture
When a Christian says the

When a Christian says the bible is without error, it is difficult to reason with them, as their viewpoint is one based on faith rather than reason. I would probably mention the immorality in the bible before mentioning any factual errors, and would perhaps mention that for most people, they follow a particular religion because they were born into it, rather than because of any inherent truth.

mickron88's picture
What’s your favorite reply?

What’s your favorite reply?

just shut the door.. and say "come here next time when i'm in the mood..!!"

Tin-Man's picture
Had a couple of JW's come

Had a couple of JW's come knocking on the door a couple of days ago in the late afternoon. I answered the door and stepped out onto the porch with them. The two guys explained who they were and invited me to attend their church (which is roughly ten minutes from my house). By this time, my wife came to the door and stepped outside with us, and greeted them politely. At that point I was telling the two gentlemen that my wife is basically Pagan, and that I fell roughly into the atheist category. This naturally raised their eyebrows a bit, but they still extended their invitation to the church. We both thanked them, but told them we were not interested. Everybody shook hands all around, and two men departed. No muss, no fuss. Interestingly enough, if we had not been in the beginning stages of preparing an early dinner, I would have been tempted to ask them to hang around for a conversation. Personally, I do not see the need nor the point in being rude or hostile toward the door-to-door "religious recruiters". (As long as they are being polite themselves, of course.) The way I see it, why reinforce the bad or critical views they may already have toward atheists? I prefer to present them with a positive impression that just might leave them walking away scratching their heads in confusion. LOL

Cognostic's picture
I tell the Mormons, "If you

I tell the Mormons, "If you show me your magic underwear I will stay and talk with you." I've had no takers yet.

Bill Kilpatrick's picture
Here in rural Italy we don't

Here in rural Italy we don't get many door to door xtians. The one time they did, I said my Italian wasn't good enough to pursue the conversation. When confronting old classmates on the street, the writer J.P. Donleavy said he would step into the gutter and start barking like a dog - which is sure to keep evangelicals at bay ...

arakish's picture
"step into the gutter and

"step into the gutter and start barking like a dog - which is sure to keep evangelicals at bay ..."

I'll have to remember that one for when I am in town...

rmfr

lighthearted athiest's picture
When someone cites The Bible

When someone cites The Bible as evidence of Jesus I usually explain how historical evidence works:

1) The oldest New Testament we have is hundreds of years after the life of Jesus: the oldest fragment we have of the New Testament is Unical 0189. It is kept in Germany at the Staatliche Museen zu Berlin (Berlin State Museum). It shows Acts 5: 3-15. And it was written in the second or third century.

2) Historical evidence must come from the time of the event: if you are trying to prove anything in history the evidence must come from the time of the event to be considered valid. That is usually within 80 years or so (a human lifetime) because that ensures the document was created in the lifetime of people who could have witnessed the event. Anything later is simply too far removed from the event to be considered reliable.

3) This could change: we could discover an intact copy of The Book of Mark today that was written in 60 AD. If so that could be considered evidence for the life of Jesus.

So for now we have no historical evidence that anything in the New Testement happened or that Jesus existed.

:)

PS: I also like to point out that we did not have any evidence that Pontius Pilate existed. We had no documents from the time of Pilate - all Roman records were copies from the second or third century. Then in 1961 they discovered the Pilate Stone in Palestine (you can Google it for details). The stone was from the 1st century and had Pilate's name, his position in the Roman Government, and other details. So in 1960 we had no evidence of Pilate. Now we do. That is how evidence works.

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The_Quieter's picture
I remind them of two things.

I remind them of two things.

'The Bible is true because the Bible says so' works just as well as 'The Koran is true because the Koran says so'

And that we can prove portions of the Bible wrong.

Chipperfhu's picture
Hebrews 11:1 kjv is why they

Hebrews 11:1 kjv is why they can't see and believe empirical evidence. Faith and hope is their evidence. It's difficult to reason with that.

CompelledUnbeliever's picture
Isimply note that I could say

I simply note that I could say Harry Potter magic is real also as it is written in a book. There is no way to prove that the Bibles Miracules are any more valid than the Magic in Harry Potter books.

Cognostic's picture
I had an office mate bring up

I had an office mate bring up the bible the other day. He is Christian to the core and a really nice person. So he brought up the bible and then tried to cross reference different books. I asked him what he was doing. The two books were written 60 years apart. The Jesus in the two books was not even the same character. The different books of the bible were written for different sects of Christians. Then I explained a couple of the different views of Jesus from the gospels and Paul. I doubt it did any good. The key point was that the bible is an Anthology of books collected over thousands of years with over 75 books omitted. I think he was just dumbfounded with all the information and was unable to process. I really didn't get much of a response from him. I just told him he could not cross reference biblical texts to prove a point. I guess he accepted that. I can't be too confrontational.... I am at work.

NameRemovedByMod's picture
I constantly have arguments

I constantly have arguments with a christian friend who always goes to the forget the old testament, god sent jesus to save us all and anyone can be saved, blah, blah, blah.

I usually go to the fact that if this god was Omniscient and Omnipotent, then it knew that all of the doubt was going to happen before it did. That the devil would turn and that jesus would be nailed to a cross, etc, etc.

How can a being that is supposed to be perfect in every way and know everything that happened before and will know everything that is going to happen, have about the most flawed plan in the universe?

Most christians I have ran into just want to talk about jesus saving all of us. They don't want to talk about the god of the old testament and it is easy to see why. How can you explain away a barbarian who murders, men, women, children, torture, famine, testing people and condemning them to eternal pain and suffering?

Evidence over blind faith!

Dave Matson's picture
thelargerbowl,

thelargerbowl,

I would point out that the Old and New Testaments were written by different people and that there is no objective evidence that Old Testament writers viewed their laws as expendable. New Testament writers can claim anything they want to, but they do not speak for the Old Testament authors. It's just an assumption, nothing more, that the Bible is one work wherein the New Testament succeeds the Old. Tell them that you want hard, objective evidence and not doctrinal assumptions!

Sky Pilot's picture
thelargerbowl,

thelargerbowl,

"Most christians I have ran into just want to talk about jesus saving all of us."

It's amazing that so many people think that Yeshua (Jesus) is a good guy. He didn't give a rotten fig about Gentiles and never interacted with them unless he absolutely had to. He considered them dogs and swine. He spoke in parables so that non-cult members wouldn't be able to understand his message. He told his Apostles that they would sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. He never, ever, said that Gentiles could enter his cult. According to the fairy tale the only way Gentiles will get into the cult is as slaves. Who really wants to be a slave for all eternity?

CompelledUnbeliever's picture
It is interesting to me that

It is interesting to me that the unchanging God changed his mind about the old testiment. It would been much easier to have simply loved his creations without killing himself to save us from him self. God is quite the drama Queen!

Muashkis's picture
@CompelledUnbeliever

@CompelledUnbeliever
Agreed!

I'd add that both of the testaments are far more entertaining than any soap opera. Shame Christians hardly ever actually read any of them fully. They are soooo educating, if read right! :D

Notice to readers: the books in question include contradictions and hypocritical bigotry, read at your own caution. Preparing tissues in advance to wipe tears from laughing is advisable.

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