Atheist and Agnostics, is there a God?

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leonides's picture
Atheist and Agnostics, is there a God?

Hey everyone, my friend suggested me to share you my video.

https://youtu.be/oCh49UwQqSk

I got some a lot heat and criticism from religious people leaving me bad messages , no longer supportive to my podcast, and dislikes, in which I don’t consume my time reflecting on.

Since I don’t have much of a Atheist/Agnostics Community. This is just my history and my views on religion and I hope this relates to you. And hope to build a supportive community among Atheist and Agnostics.

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
You've read the rules on self

You've read the rules on self promotion?

leonides's picture
I put a video that’s relevant

I put a video that’s relevant to this forum. Nonetheless If its an issue and reported. I will respectfully delete this post. Thank you.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
No trolling

No trolling
No bullying
No disclosure of someone else's personal info
No spamming
No unrelated topics
No scams
No racism
No homophobic, or sexist comments
No non-English posts
No links to gory pictures or harmful websites
No threats of harm
No advertising or self-promotion

To save the mod's time, what do you reckon?

Cognostic's picture
@Leonides "in which I don’t

@Leonides "in which I don’t consume my time reflecting on."

1, Then what are you mentioning it for and why did you post a link? Either you are a liar and a troll or you are very much unaware of your own thinking and feeling states.

2. Next: You are confused. You do not know what the word agnostic means. Agnosticism is about knowledge. It has nothing at all to do with belief. A - without Gnosis- knowledge.

If you are without knowledge, you can still believe in a God. if you are without knowledge you can deny the existence of a god and be an anti-theist. Knowledge has nothing at all to do with belief. Look at the millions of Christians who believe in their God and in Jesus with no actual knowledge at all. And when you present them with knowledge they flat out reject it for faith and belief.

So, you are agnostic. It means you have no knowledge of God or gods. Fine. So what do you believe?

This is your confusion. Do you believe in a god? Imagine that God is a jar of jelly beans. You tell me that the number of beans in the jar is even. (God is real.) No one has counted the beans. There is no evidence for the number being even. You have not demonstrated your claim. (There is no Knowledge) So, I do not believe the number is even. (I do not believe the god you are discussing is real.) There is no reason to believe it is real. (This is Atheism)

Pay attention now. I did not say "God is not real." That is a claim about reality. It is no different than saying "the number of beans in the jar is odd." I did not say the number was odd. I said I did not believe you when you asserted the number was even. I see no reason to believe you without evidence (KNOWLEDGE). Asserting that the number of beans in the jar is odd (THERE IS NO GOD) is not the same thing as asserting I do not believe you when you say the number is even (There is a God.)

Atheism is the rejection of God claims based on their inability to hold up against critical inquiry. It is not the assertion that there is no god. (With that said "Anti-theists, sometimes called "hard atheists" are also atheists. They do not believe in god. You do not have to be an anti-theist to be an atheist.)

HERE IS WHERE MOST PEOPLE ON THE SITE WILL DISAGREE WITH YOU. There has never been a "Good Reason" to believe in a God. If there was one good reason, there would be a whole lot fewer Atheist.

What there are is tired worn out and overly used apologetics. All of which have been completely debunked. If you think you have ever heard a good Christian reason for belief in God, please post it.

Are you an agnostic believer or an agnostic non-believer? The question is about belief and not knowledge. We all agree "THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE." In fact I would assert that the word agnostic is useless. Every Christian I have ever met was an Agnostic. There is no evidence, no facts, no proof, and no knowledge for the existence of God. There is no reason to believe.

leonides's picture
Posted it for feedback for

Posted it for feedback for those who are atheist/agnostic. Depending on how you reply, determines if I respond or not.
Nonetheless, very interesting with everything you mentioned. Very thoughtful sir.

chimp3's picture
Listen to Sam Harris much?

Listen to Sam Harris much?

leonides's picture
Yes! Read his book “The Moral

Yes! Read his book “The Moral Landscape”. Good book!

Cognostic's picture
Here is a thought for you.

Here is a thought for you. You claim - "I am agnostic" The way your are trying to use the word is like "I don't know." or "I have not made my mind up yet." or "The evidence is not yet in." Here is the good news for you. YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL FOR BEING AN ATHEIST.

John 3:16 God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , so that whosoever should believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life. (KEY WORD HERE - BELIEVE).

Matthew 12:30 "He that is not with me is against me." 12:30 (You don't get to say "I don't know".)

Luke 11:23 Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me." ( He can not be more clear about this)

Luke 19:12-27 "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:12-27

John 3:18, 36 People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe.

John 3:36 The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36 (I don't know is unbelief)

While you may be trying to pretend you can not make a decision, not making a decision is exactly the same thing as unbelief. You either believe in a magical flying creator sky daddy or you do not. If you do not, if you assert that you can't decide or do not know, you burn in hell with the atheists because you are one.

GENISIS…15 I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other. 16So because you are lukewarm — neither hot nor cold — I am about to spit you out of My mouth

You may think you are being clever by pretending to not know your own mind. The Church knows you will burn in hell for your pretense at indecision.

leonides's picture
Burn in hell? Lol well that

Burn in hell? Lol well that sucks.

Cognostic's picture
Non-believer = burn in hell =

Non-believer = burn in hell = atheist. It's the Christian / Muslim way. If you can not say you believe, you are a non-believer. There is no middle ground.

leonides's picture
Well, I’ll see you there lol

Well, I’ll see you there lol

Mutorc S'yriah's picture
Cognostic

Cognostic
==> If you can not say you believe, you are a non-believer. There is no middle ground. <==

True; it's :-

EITHER

a) There is sufficient evidence or convincing argument for me to believe the proposition, (in this case a god exists);

b) There is insufficient evidence or convincing argument for me to believe the proposition, but I will claim to believe;
OR
c) I don't believe.

I put b) in there, because some people may use Pascal's Wager, but there are good reasons NOT to take up Pascal's Wager.

===================
Pascal's Wager

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager

The Wager uses the following logic (excerpts from Pensées, part III, §233):

God is, or God is not. Reason cannot decide between the two alternatives.
A Game is being played... where heads or tails will turn up.
You must wager (it is not optional).
Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing.
Wager, then, without hesitation that He is. (...) There is here an infinity of an infinitely happy life to gain, a chance of gain against a finite number of chances of loss, and what you stake is finite. And so our proposition is of infinite force, when there is the finite to stake in a game where there are equal risks of gain and of loss, and the infinite to gain.
But some cannot believe. They should then 'at least learn your inability to believe...' and 'Endeavour then to convince' themselves.
===================

As a philosophical argument it sucks; it's question begging and circular, but also if it turns out you're wrong in accepting Pascals' Wager, philosophically it leads to other undesirable possibilities.

Cheers, Mu.

LogicFTW's picture
Pascal's wager is worthless

Pascal's wager is worthless also because it does not consider other god ideas. I just thought of 1 trillion different god ideas, all of which in this sort of wager must be considered on equal grounding even if I did not name them or consider them all. It is not a 50/50 flip when you drill down to a particular "god" idea. It is more of a 1 in infinity flip. 1 chance it is right, infinite chances it is wrong.

1 chance you get it right, infinite chances you will get it wrong at least in part, that sounds like a horrible wager.
The whole 50/50 idea it is based on is so wrong on so many levels. Fortunately most religious apologist recognize it is a horrible argument and do not use it and actually try to distant themselves from it. Only those that are not educated on various arguments and counter arguments for a particular god idea continue to try and use it. Ofcourse a truly deep thinking apologetic will realize all their arguments for a possible god idea are garbage when properly scrutinized.

Greensnake's picture
LogicForTW,

LogicForTW,

And, then, there's the case where the one, true religion died out and is unknown in our time!

LogicFTW's picture
Yep. Just another point that

Yep. Just another point that completely makes pascal's wager junk.

Sheldon's picture
The simple fact is that I don

The simple fact is that I don't know is not a middle position between belief and non-belief. I mean what sane person believes something is true if they don't know. I don't know if there's a dead cat in my car, so I will withhold belief until I do know. Now when you're dealing with claims that are unfalsifiable you discard them, as they can tell you nothing, in science the term not even wrong is used for such claims or hypothesis, they are considered useless. Yet how often do we see theists boast that no one can disprove their belief that a deity exists, if something is falsifiable yet proper evidence and scrutiny cannot falsify it, then it is most likely true, this is how science works for things like evolution, which could easily be falsified and yet in 150+ years of scientific scrutiny it remains true.

What can theism offer remotely comparable to that, and after thousands of years? All I have seen are it's core beliefs either fail to offer any credible or objective evidence or be completely falsified by proper evidence. So it's core claim being unfalsifiable is hardly something for theists to boast about, or offer any support to their belief.

Tin-Man's picture
Something else about Pascal's

Something else about Pascal's Wager that most people do not consider, particularly when talking about a supposed omniscient type god. If you are simply "pretending" to believe in the god in an effort to hedge your bets, then that particular god should KNOW you are not being genuine in your faith/belief. Therefore, you would simply be wasting your time with your "half-hearted" belief. And if that particular omniscient god cannot determine your belief is not genuine and you are able to fool it, then it ain't much of a god worth worshipping in the first place.

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon "I don't know if

@Sheldon "I don't know if there's a dead cat in my car, so I will withhold belief until I do know."

I am not in disagreement with you. If you read my post you will get "According to the Church and both the Christian and Muslim beliefs, withholding belief is the same thing as not believing. You will burn in hell. You do not get to say "I am withholding belief in these faiths." You are a nonbeliever or a believer. There is no middle ground. There is no withholding belief to them. I fully get what you mean. You do not have to "not believe" in something like a purple flying elephant. It's just silly and the effort of not believing is just useless.

What the Christians and Muslims are telling you is that you "MUST" believe that there is a dead cat in the car or they will torture you forever and ever. If you tell them, "I am withholding belief" they are still going to torture you. You do not get to withhold belief.

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