I have been experiencing so many debates with believers concerning Evolution and the Big Bang...
All of them always seem to bring up the thing that both of them is just a "theory"...how can i approach this?
Secondly...concerning the Big Bang...I have tried explaining Virtual particles (if Hawking Radiation is true though) to them to give them a idea of how to Universe started or got into existence....they seem to always want an answer as to what created it. They say , well what created the virtual particles...where did that come from etc etc. Please help with this?
I am still 18 and looking forward to study Astrophysics to gain more knowledge...but for now i need some help!
Thirdly...i can't seem to prove anything to them when it comes to Dating of the earth. They literally have excuses for all the dating methods! Whether it be C-14, tree rings, Ice-Snow layers...they all use what Ken Ham used and said it's all unconsistend and unreliable...any advice?
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Clarance,
The Big Bang Theory is BS. It's just a Catholic theory of creation.
The Scale of the Universe 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaGEjrADGPA
The universe is still being created.
That is a common misconception. But the big bang theory has nothing to do with creation. It is just a theory that models the homogeneous isotropic expansion of a plasma (or in English: how a hot ball of gas expands). It matches observation extremely well.
Look up the word 'theory' as used by the scientific community. If you explain that to the naysayers, and they still balk, you can always fall back on the srandard, "it's a theory just like the theory of gravity is a theory."
@Clarance: Neither the Big Bang nor the evolutionary fact are theories, are proven facts. The Big Bang is demonstrated by the cosmic microwave background or CMB, that image is the Big Bang photo. The evolutionary fact is demonstrated by DNA, to speak about something that doesn't leave room for doubts.
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I am not a physicist so I try not to debate physics . I trust the scientific method and I try to get my knowledge about nature from scientists. Not politicians or preachers. Ask your Christian friends to name one fact about reality that religion has brought to the table in the last 500 years. None. The amount of knowledge brought to the table by science is astounding.
I completely agree. These goobers think if they can prove that evolution or big bang or radiometric dating is wrong, it proves their gods exist. That is wrong. In fact, it is irrelevant. Ask your critics for proof that the god exists. This is where they ALWAYS fail.
Evolution is a theory in exactly the same was as gravity is a theory
Like others have said, gravity is a "theory." But another way to approach it is: even if science does not answer the question for everyone in a satisfactory manner, that does not mean in any way their god is proven real. Just because we do not know what is behind door number 2 does not mean that a monster is behind door number 2. The argument is not my god is real because the big bang is just a theory, the argument is, the big bang is just a theory, they are trying to plug in two arguments on the results of one.
Both the god and the scientific argument run into the problem of what was created first. God argument just likes to use the word eternal and all powerful, outside of time etc. These are just pretty words they get to use because they granted god "magic." which shuts down all logical debate, once we accept that god has magic and can do what ever he wants outside of all rules of logic. Which is easy to do when we talk about a being that has zero physical proof of its presence. Again, anyone can create any story and god and have exact same amount of evidence as any particular religions god.
Easy to have zero proof for something if you dismiss all the proof. The only thing I could say to someone that dismisses all proof because it is inconvenient for them, is for them to personally prove to them selves that the proof is without merit. Aka if they do not want to accept powerful scientific consensus and well supported theory, they can go into the study of geology, nuclear half life and so on themselves, and study and learn and use the equipment scientist use, and then after they gone through all that, can decide if the theory is bogus, instead of simply parroting what someone with an agenda told them. I highly doubt any geologist or nuclear scientist with solid understanding of carbon dating will ever tell anyone the world is only 6-7k years old.
Clarance
I'm no scientist, doubt any of the christians you debate are either. As for the big bang and evolution being theories, that is correct. Ask them if they believe in gravity? Ask them if they wash their hands after handling raw meat? Both of them are theories, theory of Gravity and Germ Theory. Ask them which creation story they believe in Genesis 1, god created the animals then created Adam and Eve together or Genesis 2, god created Adam from dust and Eve from a rib.
@xenoview: That's false, neither gravity, nor evolutionary fact, nor the big bang are theories, are proven facts. By definition a theory is a scientific hypothesis to explain a given fact, when that hypothesis is demonstrated it ceases to be theory to become a proven fact. Today we are looking for the graviton, we know that the force that maintains the balance of the universe is, in great part and in forms that we are still discovering part by part, the gravity, the attraction between the bodies and the balance between those forces; We know that the evolutionary fact is indisputable, not only through DNA, that's in even simpler things like the bones of your inner ear. As for the Big Bang is a fact demonstrated since April 14, 2014, when scientists from the BICEP2 experiment of the Harvard-Smithonian Astrophysical Observatory announced the ripples of primordial gravitational waves, and after the cosmic microwave background, or CMB confirmed it (the image of my previous comment). Being a demonstrated fact the Big Bang confirmed the theory of the cosmic inflation, the theories proposed by Albert Einstein and the works realized by the british cosmologist Stephen Hawking on the primordial universe.
And none of this is debatable, it's basic physics and is available to anyone through Google, but, if you want, I can also advise you some reference book about... or one of Physics for children.
Ah, there's no theory of germ, germs exist, and that too is a fact.
P.S.
One of the biggest problems that atheists have faced, confronted and will face throughout history is the ignorance of those with whom they've tried, try and will try to talk about science. That ignorance is what leads a believer to say Muhammad was an ignorant and that did not stop him from being the prophet, or that a Mulah assures, today, that the earth is flat and whoever says otherwise is blaspheming. No atheist should tolerate ignorance... from my point of view, of course. I'm not going to do it.
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Googled this about gravity.
http://thehappyscientist.com/science-experiment/gravity-theory-or-law
It's still called Germ Theory of Disease.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/its-just-a-theory/
@xenoview: sure...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/683314/ELVIS-NOT-DEAD-Graceland-grou...
... but he died, that's also a fact and you cannot change it either, sorry, but, as I always say, if you have any proof that law of universal gravitation is false or germs don't exist, even if you have any about Elvis lives, please, don't hesitate to expose it. Go ahead.
My point is that both are still referred to as a theory. Ever evolution and big bang are still referred to as theories.
@xenoview: I know what's your point, I guess you aren't so stupid to believe still are theories. My point is that as long as we continue to call them theories, even those that we know aren't, will continue to be perceived as theories. I will say more, because people like us, who know aren't theories, who have continued to call them this way, believers continue to think that are hypotheses of a given fact and put it in our face "Why would they be called theories If it were not a theory?", "How you say that the theory of evolution is a fact, if it's a theory is because it's a theory", "The Big Bang is only one hypothesis of the many that exist about the creation of the universe". Bullshit. If we are unable to speak properly about things we know, How are we going to reproaching to a believer who doesn't do about things he believes?
And let's not talk about gravity, germs and Elvis.
You need to explain to religious friends the power of "we don't know." Admitting that we don't know something is the first step on the path to discovery. Religion says "we do know. God did it." End of story. There's nothing more to learn.
Somebody once said we don't know why lightning happens, and now we have electric power. Somebody once said we don't know why cancer happens. And now we have radiotherapy, chemotherapy, gene therapy, and people survive. If we'd answered "God did it" to all of the great scientific questions, we'd still be looking for nuts and berries and carrion in the African savannah.
Here are my thoughts on morality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_jYsjKWmBA
a lot of good stuff here but also remember that no one is expecting you or coercing you to 'convert' anybody. you're not responsible to undo the years of brainwashing and you don't owe them anything. people are changed by knowledge and that is almost always obtained through self discovery. information from another is crucial for sure and it is important to speak up if you've got the chance but the questions need to become 'real' for the individual person and then they will seek out knowledge that will lead them out whatever religious cult they're involved in. best of luck man and remember to better yourself and the world wherever you can!
@Matt Zook: What the hell... Ôo)-♫
@SBMontero sorry man i'm not hip on emoji speak, so i dont know what that means.
Bump
Here's what you say:
"For the sake of this argument, I agree 100% with you. Evolution and the Big Bang are both completely false and untrue. NOW, let's talk about how the falsehood of these things somehow prove the existence of your deity. They don't. Proving something else false doesn't prove something else to be true. All claims require their own independent supporting evidence. Your epistemology is finished in round one."
When I tell Islamic believers that things happen because of science they start saying " then who created science?" And I find it really annoying l do I say?
Humans created science.
@Mia A Amer "who created science?"
That would be Imhotep, Aristotle, Archimedes, Leonardo, Bruno, Newton, Faraday, Darwin, Einstein, Hubble, Hawking, and of course Zefram Cochrane. Ignaz Semmelweis also deserves honorable mention for his contribution to the evolution of the scientific method.
Every scientific discovery is the result of human effort, imagination, and intelligence, often in the face of religious persecution.