I grew up in the Episcopal Church. I went to catechism and was confirmed. I spent the majority of my young life being drilled into understanding and memorizing the fundamentals of christianity. My teachers were nuns until I actually started going to public schools, even then I went every Saturday and Sunday to christian fundamental schools.
A Bishop that I knew who had a Ph.D. in theology told me that there are really only two things that I must remember.
1) Man is burdened with just one sin, the sin of knowledge, known as original sin.
2) Salvation or redemption from this sin comes only through christ.
Then he explained.
In the beginning, god made man. He gave him all he needed. God and man had a covenant a union. Man broke that union by disobeying god by acquiring knowledge. Thus there was from that point no direct link to god. The solution came in the form of christ. God took human form and sacrificed himself to absolve man of sin. That absolution returned man to the union with god. The reward of that union is eternal life.
That is it. That is all there is to christianity. The bible is minutia and has no real relevance to the facts about christianity.
Deeds, praying, good works, other sins, or anything that concerns the mortal world has no relevance whatsoever. It is your immortal soul that christianity is based upon. Anything and everything you do doesn't matter. There is only one thing that you must do to receive eternal life, and that is to accept christ as your savior.
Now the religions of the world would have you to believe different. After all, they are a going concern, a business. They want you to believe that they are in control of salvation. Even the bible is of no consequence and doesn't matter. It is just a story an explanation, not a guide. The concepts of heaven and hell are imaginary even in the christian world. Eternal life is the only thing that is real in the basis of christianity.
Now I don't believe a word of it. But if I were still a christian I would really have a problem with what most if not all religions purport. Even the story of jesus just doesn't matter. The healing the preaching the mortal actions just don't matter. Only his death and resurrection/sacrafice matter.
You see christianity is really a blood cult. The blood of christ cleanses mankind of sin. Before jesus, jews made blood sacrifices to appease their god.
The sacrafice has to be of one without sin. Usually a lamb or a goat kid. Since in the eyes of christianity mankind was burdened with sin, god had to send one without sin to be sacrificed to spill blood to absolve sin. That is why jesus is described as "he who is without sin".
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What Christianity does is what many psychologists do, invent a disease and then invent a cure for the disease.
Christianity invents the disease of "SIN: (Separation from God). Everyone is born into a state of sin and if you do not have a man in a funny hat, wearing a robe sprinkle a bit of water on a babies head, that baby will go to a place of eternal damnation, anguish, and suffering where it will live forever and ever.
But then, Christianity invents a cure. 'God so loved the world..." (They can not possibly be talking about the God of the Old Testament. The guy that butchers 30,000,000 innocent men, women, children, all their livestock, and all other plants and animals as well. "that he gave his only begotten son..." (Who was really God himself in disguise, sacrificing himself to himself and pretending to suffer and die without actually dying.) "...that who so ever should believe in him, should not perish but have everlasting life."
It reminds me of the ole knock knock joke/
"Knock, knock"
"Whose there?"
"Jesus"
"What do you want?"
"I want to come in. Open the door."
"Why?"
"So I can save you."
"Save me from what?"
"Save you from you sin and a fiery death that I have created for you if you don't let me in. "
Great-goobly-goobs! Holy crap, Myk! Thanks for sharing that. I simply shudder to imagine what it must have been like to have been raised under that type of smothering blanket. While I did get dragged into church most every Sunday as a kid, I was at least still allowed to be a kid and encouraged to explore and learn about other things and have fun. Yes, my Mom and my Granny were very devout in their beliefs, but they were also "realistic" and practical and never went extreme with it toward the children of the family. I did have a few friends in my neighborhood whose parents were almost fanatical with the whole Christianity thing, and I noticed those particular friends seemed to be always on edge and "scared". Although I couldn't really understand it as a kid, looking back now I am very much aware of why they were that way.
Interestingly, my wife grew up going to a private Christian school from first grade all the way to graduation. It absolutely amazed me one day when she told me they actually had graded classes in bible study. (Hers was not a pleasant childhood, but that is another story altogether.) To say she is currently not a fan of Christianity would be an understatement. Anyway, she is one of the major factors in helping me to get where I am today in my beliefs (or lack thereof). She is a research fiend. Not only has she studied the bible extensively, but she has researched many other religions and belief systems, and is especially interested in ancient Egyptian culture and how it relates to the bible. It is almost awe-inspiring to watch her totally shred any theist who attempts to debate her. She is a debate BEAST, and I love it.
Hey, Cog, that knock-knock joke reminds me of another anecdote I've heard. You may have already heard it before, but it is worth repeating. A missionary goes to the jungles of Africa and encounters a native tribe to preach the gospel to them. He gathers them together and tells them, "I am here to tell you of Jesus Christ so that you might believe in him and ask for His forgiveness and save yourselves from the tortures of hell." And one of the natives asks, "So, what would happen to us if we had died before ever knowing of this Christ of whom you speak?" The missionary answers, "Well, that would have been no fault of your own, so you would get to go to heaven, of course." At which point the native replies, "Then why the hell did you come here to tell us about him?"
The problem with any Abrahamic religion is not so much that they make no sense, but that people don't care. They make the religion (whichever one it is) mean whatever they want it to mean. A Christian actually said to me a few months ago that Christianity was a bit like Communism. He apparently meant that they were both aimed at a more equal and just society.
I would also note that a "doctor" of theology is similar to a doctor of mythology except that theologians are partisan, invested in a theology being true and are consequently much less objective than someone researching a mythology.
@ZeffD: "Christianity was a bit like Communism."
They certainly produce similar results when they get control of countries.
My step-daughter has a female friend who is totally submerged in her religious beliefs, but she seems to be constantly jumping around from church to church trying to find a place to "fit in". My step-daughter - thankfully - couldn't give a rat's ass about any of it and considers it all a bunch of ridiculous nonsense. Still, when invited by her friend to go to a new church with her a couple of Sundays ago, my step-daughter politely accepted the invitation in support of her friend who claimed to be a little nervous about going alone. (They are both in their early 20's, by the way.) So, off they went. The next day, I asked my step-daughter how it went. She dramatically rolled her eyes and shook her head and said, "Ugh... They played two or three songs, and then the preacher came out. He read one or two bible passages, and then he spent the entire rest of the "sermon" talking about how they wanted to build a bigger church and needed everybody to contribute to the fund." Come to find out, they were only asking for a measly couple of million dollars for this new church facility. She continued to explain, "And the preacher seemed to try to justify that amount by claiming two million was not very much compared to the sixteen million or more some of the other denominations spend on THEIR church facilities." She said it was the most ridiculous time she ever wasted. She also said she questioned her friend about the whole thing and pointed out to her quite plainly that it seemed the only purpose of the church was to get money from people to build bigger churches. Naturally, her friend refused to see the truth of the matter and repeatedly made up some sort of lame excuse or justification. So sad.
you must consider sanctification process, it is a life long process. And I disagree with you on the assumption that you made that it doesn`t matter what you do once you make Christ your personnel savior. there is witnessing that is called for, there is alms giving that is necessary in the Christian walk there are a whole host of things. And I Haven`t even touched on rewards that Christians will receive in heaven for there altruistic acts. The bishop that you cite didn`t know Christianity very well, Either that or he gave you a partial answer. I can observe that you really don`t know after all your years practicing it very well!!!!.
Well, Devout I doubt that you could actually hold a candle to the Arch Bishop that I spoke of. The man teaches theological professors theology. As for assumptions 1) I didn't assume anything, 2) the idea that god is real is a huge assumption in the first place.
Alms, witnessing, are all superfluous bullshit added much later to christianity than the original concept.
It is definitely not a lifelong process. Anyone can be "saved" at any time.
Well if not for witnessing how do you explain the early churches rise and spread .and 1st peter chapter 3 verse 15. Paul uses in the Greek koine the word for testifying, Witnessing which is μαρτυρια there is no doubt that the early Christians spread the word by this method. Since a lot of people maybe even the majority were illiterate. So you don`t know your bible very well. I know the Greek studied it for years and that was the original language of the new testament. koine Greek. And alms giving was a practice in the early church I refer to the book of ACTS it states it there.
@Devout
The bible is an illusion even to christianity. It is a story, not a guide. An explanation. Christianity hinges on the resurrection and nothing else. The early bibles don't even have the resurrection, it was added over 300 years later.
I disagree the bible says train up a child how they should behave and they will not depart from it !!show your completely wrong again!!! You definitely show your ignorance in citing the scriptures The whole bible is not only a story but much more. The beatitudes themselves are dictates on how one should live; Like blessed be the peacemakers because they will be called the children of God. Also blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy, And I could go on and on here.The bible is based on reality again your wrong in stating it is an illusion. Jesus death was a real happening no matter if you atheist want to acknowledge it or not. you have a empty existence with just this life by natural means We Christians have much more we have the Gospel and where promised a place of eternal bliss.
@Devout.
You can wipe the spittle from your over-excited lips and just fucking calm down.
I didn't cite any scripture so claiming that I am wrong about it is just fucking dumb. All that you claim the bible to be is a 4th century edited political propaganda piece and nothing more.
You can't prove that there was even a jesus let alone the death of one and certainly not the ressurection of one.
The bible is based on speculation, second-hand folklore, and ancient myths, NOT reality. SO FUCK what the bible "says", it has nothing to do with real christianity. It is a fucking story for cryin' out loud. A fictional one at that. A highly edited modified collection of folklore and myth.
To: DC. Re: "...you atheists... have an empty existence..."
Soooo... If that is true, then please explain why it is you are such a miserable and unhappy guy? Meanwhile,, I would venture a guess - based on what they post - that most of the "empty atheists" on here are fairly happy and content folks. Speaking for myself, I KNOW I am a happy guy and I have plenty in my life to be grateful for. Naturally, life isn't always perfect. Everybody has bad days, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. No biggie. Deal with it and move on. And I don't have to beg and plead to some imaginary "higher power" to handle my problems. I deal with them myself or with the help of friends and family. In that same respect, I take responsibility for the things I do MYSELF, and do not blame my problems on that same imaginary entity. In doing so, my life is fuller now than it ever has been. Just sayin'...
@Devout Christian: "just this life by natural means"
The real, natural world offers more than enough wonder to fill many lifetimes. You can't experience that while you're living a fantasy life based on a promise of eternal life in heaven. Here and now is the only place to be.
"You have a empty existence"
Well, once you realize that everything is made of atoms, and 99.9% of an atom is empty space, yeah. I guess we do. So by extension, 99.9% of the universe is empty space. But I'm perfectly content, you?
@Jared Re: "99.9% empty space"
Unfortunately, when people fill their 99.9% of empty space with 49% of faith in an outdated belief and another 49% of delusion required to maintain that faith, it does not leave very much room for contentment. So sad.
Re: DC "you must consider sanctification..."
Uh-oh.... *cringe*
To: Myk Re: DC
Well, at least I tried.... *shrugging shoulders*
yes I'm not disagreeing with the premise that you could be saved at any particular time. What I mean what takes place after being saved, sanctification the holy spirit regenerates a person into Christ likeness. I f your yielding yourself over to the holy Spirit, You of course can hinder the holy spirit but the sanctification process has begun in your life; With not practicing the fruits of the spirit one hinders the process, with blatant sin.
No Devout you are dead wrong. When someone receives absolution they are merely forgiven for "original sin" and nothing else. They are cleansed with the blood of christ of that sin. To be cleansed with christ blood, they must accept christ as their savior. That is all that is required. All the other crap is superfluous bullshit add by churches and religions that have nothing to do with redemption.
The fundamental aspect and basis of Christianity is love. I don't care if no one agrees but I had to put this in here because no one here seems to actually know this. You claim to know something but you don't know anything.
@Chica_2009: "The fundamental aspect and basis of Christianity is love."
Christians have very odd ways of showing love.
Yes no kidding...if fact I find alot of people have odd ways of showing there love. Like my parents use to strap me when I did something bad...at the time I didn't know there was they had an ulterior motive and it wasn't because they were abusive or sadistic.
@Mick
They obviously didn't teach you grammar. Their, they're, and there are three different words. What does "strap me" mean? Do you mean being struck with a strap?
And just read this statement you made out loud "...at the time I didn't know there was they had...". That makes no sense. Even though no one can be sure, you probably meant, "I didn't know at the time that they had an ulterior motive...".
Nope Chica, you are dead wrong. Christianity has never been based on love. It is based on sin. If you think I don't know what I am talking about, you really need to delve into the higher aspects of theology.
There would not even be christianity if it were not for "original sin". Christianity is a method of redemption or absolution from that sin. It has nothing to do with love or the mortal world at all.
Just like to ask you this if I may, have you actually read the bible in its entirety ? and what is the definition of "original sin" according you you?
Thanks
@ Mick
Well, of course, I have many times. I have read several different bibles to be exact. I haven't read all the different versions, but I have read more than a dozen different versions.
I don't define "original sin" do you? What the bible or most of them describe as original sin is the acquisition of knowledge. If you say it is anything other or more than that then you are defying accepted theology.
To: Chica Re: "The fundamental aspect and basis of Christianity is love."
Actually, the fundamental aspect and basis of Christianity is control of the masses. Wait, my bad. Control is just one of the major functions. Still, LOVE certainly has nothing to do with the fundamental aspect and basis.
Chica, dear child, based on some of your other posts in other areas, you seem like a very sweet, honest, sincere, and genuinely caring young lady. We could honestly use more people like you in this world. Unfortunately, you have an innocence and naivety about you that prevents you from seeing (and possibly even understanding) so many of the bad and harmful things that lurk beneath deceptively clear and placid waters of so many religious beliefs. As is often the case in matters like this, I tend to find myself in a tug-of-war of conscious. I spent a large portion of my life risking my own life to protect the innocence and safety of others. I wish I could say I was always successful in that endeavor, but - unfortunately - reality does not work that way. Still, it was never an easy thing for me to see innocence lost, and it is no less difficult even now.
With that in mind, I see your innocence and naivety as something to be defended and preserved, as though protecting a defenseless new-born baby from a pack of hungry wolves. In that same respect, I know in reality that it is the same innocence and naivety that puts you at risk. Therefore, it is important to eventually teach the baby how to defend itself against the wolves, meaning the innocence and naivety have to be replaced by the knowledge there are bad things/people out there whose sole purpose/intent in life is to prey on the innocent and naïve. I point this out, because I am in no position to protect you in any way, shape, or form, but that does not keep my instincts from wanting to do so. So, young lady, the best I can do here is to simply make you aware of this harsh reality of life, and hope that you will eventually become aware of the monsters that silently glide beneath the surface waiting to attack.
Sincerely,
Tin-man.
yes they surely do according to non believers, They only are missionaries risking there lives in some unforeseen tiny place around the globe, or there helping refugees search for peace and understanding; Or there housing or clothing or feeding destitute people. Yes they have very odd ways of showing it. Or they build new places of worship just for people to fine spiritual nourishment. After listing the attributes of a great majority of christians I suppose if you have some kind of grievance you could say that. But deep down it is only envy why your saying that. Come on will you please fess up to reality .Stop knocking my fellow Christians please.
Or those lovely Christians stoning and killing suspected LGBT folks in Uganda?, or the killing of witches in Angola and elsewhere? Or how about those lovely christians who put whole provinces to death in Europe for defying/remaining faithful to the catholic church? Or those truly lovely christians that are on TV every day soliciting dollars for self aggrandizing structures. personal jets etc? Please dont say "ah but they are not the christians I mean, MY christians are different" because that is a cop out. The face of christianity is anything but love. Anything but redemption, it is based on money and venality since Paul/Saul. That is not even 1% of the evils that religion in general and christianity in particular has heaped on the innocent. Now please, fess up to reality, let the scales fall from your eyes and own the inhumanity that is your faith every day in this all too real world.
You say this like only Christians have ever been charitable. Most of the honest charities in the world today are secular in nature. Love isn't owned by any religion. It's a mental response to empathy and hormones that most animals experience.
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