Getting to the point

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TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Getting to the point

I haven't been a member of this forum as long as the majority of you, but I have certainly noticed that certain questions appear to always be dodged, And so I thought I would ask it in a clear thread so that we could all understand and discuss.

what would you say is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view?

It would be nice to see something different other than threads that decend down the Sye Ten philosophical dead end.

I feel that horse has been flogged enough!

So again, What is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view, this can be answered to atheists too, but I am keen to understand the theological reasoning behind their faith.

*Additional, Evidence does not have to mean i.e. scientific evidence, this would mean evidence, rationale, reasoning and so on.*

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arakish's picture
"What would you say is the

"What would you say is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view?"

Science and the Scientific Method actually work. Religion does not.

rmfr

Talyyn's picture
Metaphysical naturalism, and

Metaphysical naturalism, and even if something analogous to a deity exist, it is likely that is it not like everything we've ever imagined.

Cognostic's picture
1 @ "what would you say is

1 @ "what would you say is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view?" You have no idea what my world view is. Shouldn't you ask about that first? One of my primary assumptions about people and the world around me. "People are whole and complete and capable of making the best decisions they can at any point in time." In short, you make decisions for your life and you are responsible for those decisions. Even when you make a poor decision, at the time you made it, it was the best decision you could have come up with at the time. If the decision did not work out, you are free to move on and make a different decision. "It's an a-priori assumption. I hold myself and others responsible for the decisions they make but assume even bad decisions are the best they were able to do at the time based on who they are as people."

@ I am keen to understand the theological reasoning behind their faith.
I assume you are referring to the faithful here. The theological reasoning behind their faith is Church Dogma and Scripture. Is that not obvious?

Grinseed's picture
History.

History.
Nothing in historical records supports supernatural events depicted in either the OT or the NT. No Eden, no global flood, no Moses, no Exodus, no Messiah, no prophecies, probably no Yeshua, certainly no miracles or water walking, no crucifixion, no resurrection, no road to Damascus event, nothing. The Bible is as historical as Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

And then there is science.

David Killens's picture
As an atheist I rely on

As an atheist I rely on empirical evidence.

quip's picture
@TheBlindWatchmaker

@TheBlindWatchmaker

what would you say is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view?

The chaos that befits religious belief including the non-believer's struggle against it.

Sheldon's picture
The fact humans create and

The fact humans create and have always created fictional deities, coupled with the fact that no one can demonstrate any objective evidence that any deity is real.

There is not struggle for atheism, as there is nothing to struggle against.

quip's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

There is not struggle for atheism, as there is nothing to struggle against.

I'm sure the staunch religionists feel the same way regarding their belief.

Of course there's a struggle else you wouldn't be on a forum envisioned in combating religion's current, prevalent influence.

David Killens's picture
@ quip

@ quip

I do not struggle with the concept of religion or the imaginary god. I struggle against the promulgation of this fantasy world, the damage it causes, and the ridiculous attitudes and arguments that support religion.

quip's picture
@Dave

@Dave

Given those methods of disbelief....you just contradicted yourself.

arakish's picture
@ quip

@ quip

Bill Maher: "You're selling an invisible product. It doesn't get any easier than that. No one's ever going to come back from the dead and say, "Ah, it's bullshit up there. There's no heaven. It's just an empty lot." "

rmfr

quip's picture
I like Bill to...he cuts

I like Bill too...he cuts through the bullshit.

Tin-Man's picture
@quip Re: "I like Bill too.

@quip Re: "I like Bill too...he cuts through the bullshit."

Yes. He does indeed. Interestingly enough, poor ol' Bill would need a Ginsu Samurai sword in each hand, along with a modified industrial snow plow to cut through some of the crap you've been slinging lately.... *pulling up pants legs and pinching nose shut while wading out of room*....

quip's picture
@tin

@tin

Ya better call Bill then. Perhaps he'll give more effort to the cause than I've seen from the likes here. Comic relief notwithstanding, of course.

Sheldon's picture
"Of course there's a struggle

"Of course there's a struggle else you wouldn't be on a forum envisioned in combating religion's current, prevalent influence."

This is an atheist forum, it's theists who come here to rail against atheism, I don't go to theist forums, and atheists rarely proselytise the way religions constantly do. So no, atheism is not a struggle, not until a theist can demonstrate some objective evidence for a deity.

Challenging the more pernicious dogma and doctrine of religions isn't atheism, it's simple decency.

The fact that people still cling to superstitions out of fear, or for a delusional comfort blanket, doesn't validate those superstitions, at all.

Cognostic's picture
@ Quip: "Of course there's a

@ Quip: "Of course there's a struggle else you wouldn't be on a forum envisioned in combating religion's current, prevalent influence."

Perhaps you missed something. This place is called ATHEIST REPUBLIC. You came to us. This site supports atheists. It helps to make their lives easier. We do not struggle against you or your religion, like Mormons at the door, YOU CAME HERE. If we felt put off by you in any way, you would just be banned from the site. NO STRUGGLE AT ALL.

What's really interesting about this is that you have been able to blather on for thread after thread after thread with your religious nonsense. WE DON'T CARE. We don't hate you, we just know you are WRONG. And let's be fair here, how long do you think any of us would last on a religious site? NOT AT ALL.

If we were "combating religion's current, prevalent influence," we would be attacking religious sites, not sitting here and sharing our opinions with one another. This is a support site for Atheists and we have our doors wide open for Theists. Come on in and join us. If you feel attacked, go join a religious site and find people who agree with you there.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "This is a support

@Cog Re: "This is a support site for Atheists and we have our doors wide open for Theists. Come on in and join us. If you feel attacked, go join a religious site and find people who agree with you there."

*standing on top of table clapping and cheering wildly*..... *waving "GO, COG, GO!!!" banner*.... *frantically searching for "1000 Agrees" button*......

Grinseed's picture
Nice side-step, but what are

Nice side-step, but what are you selling?
Barracking from the sidelines for chaos?

quip's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

I'm not selling anything at all.

Better question: What are YOU buying into?

Grinseed's picture
@quip

@quip

I got out of the market of buying into other people's preconcieved notions about what I should believe when I became an atheist.

Whose brand of nilihism do you follow or is yours all home grown?

quip's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

I got out of the market of buying into other people's preconcieved notions about what I should believe when I became an atheist.

No you haven't or you wouldn't be so concered about pejoratively labeling what I believe.

Grinseed's picture
"Perjoratively"?

"Perjoratively"?

Don't be so precious. It was a question. And I still have no answer. You are proving the OP's point about people not getting to the point, answering people's questions with nothing more than questions or vague statements.

"The chaos that befits religious belief including the non-believer's struggle against it."
Interesting but it means nothing without some elaboration so others can understand what you are getting at. How does chaos befit religious belief?
Atheists struggle? How? I see newly minted ex-christians struggle against persistence of waning faith, but atheists, no.

You think that because I expess interest in what you believe, I'd want to buy into your set of beliefs?
I'm too old for that and too cynical.
My own beliefs would serve no-one else and neither would theirs serve me, but I am still interested in what other people believe. You seem to devalue interest, hence I thought you might be into nihilism, existentialism maybe, I have some friends who claim to be, but they still seem to be keenly interested in specific things in their lives for me to take them seriously.

quip's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

How does chaos befit religious belief?

Take a look at all those religions, many of them with conflicting dogma; as cause for wars/destruction. Then look into the various denominations of each religions...subject to similar divisiveness....etc.

Atheists struggle? How? 

You've been socially conditioned by religion to the point where there exists a motivated struggle to challenge the religious assertions of God and its relation to reality and Truth by way of rational explanation.

Grinseed's picture
Great. Thanks for taking the

Great. Thanks for taking the time to make the clarification.

I can only agree there's an immense amount of struggle between and within religions. Its literally the stuff of history and makes a mockery of those religions' claims to being faiths of peace. But its not a preserve of just religion, we humans manage to make conflict and strife of just about every aspect of life and living. That we do it with such gusto within the realm of religion makes it seem all the more surreal, particularly as religions have the unique quality of pushing their conflicts beyond the grave. The religions may not accept that it befits them, but it satisfies my cynicism.

I concede I struggle against the effects of religion, because of my personal involvement with it and escape from it and because I hold all religions to be repressive. Your clarification has helped me understand what you mean. I initially thought you meant I struggled to maintain my atheism which is now as much a part of me as breathing.

Thanks again for the response.

Sheldon's picture
"You've been socially

"You've been socially conditioned by religion to the point where there exists a motivated struggle to challenge the religious assertions of God and its relation to reality and Truth by way of rational explanation."

No I haven't, at all.

kevinr's picture
Science works. It can be

Science works. It can be tested. Religion can't be tested, thus it does not work.

Cognostic's picture
Ummm..... unless of course

Ummm..... unless of course the goal of religion is to scare the shit out of children, convince people they are worthless, and make a lot of money by promising them magical cures. I would argue that religion works very well for this.

Searching for truth's picture
@OP

@OP

what would you say is the strongest evidence to support your belief/world view?

Science, rational, logic and common sense. Although common sense can be argued as our environment plays a huge role on what each person considers common sense. Although, I'd like to think, for the most part, we have a each overlap on what most people would consider common sense.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Thank you for the genuine

Thank you for the genuine response.

Sheldon's picture
Science isn't evidence it's a

Science isn't evidence it's a method a tool for understanding the physical material universe, and you dismissed science in your nonsense thread pretending you wanted to find common ground, so that's fairly hypocritical to try and claim it is valid now. However please cite any peer reviewed research that evidence a deity, as the entire scientific world seems to have missed this.

Logic isn't evidence either, it's a method of reasoning with strict principles of validation. Common sense is just sound judgement, it is not in and of itself evidence.

So you have not answered the question at all, what is the strongest evidence to support your belief. You've been here a while and have demonstrated none.

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