Hi All,
My name is Karl and I am a student researching why certain groups do not believe in the Bible, Jesus Christ or God. I would like to hear what the responses are from different groups.
My question is "what are the three most common objections that you have against Christianity (eg., God, Jesus, or the Bible) and why"?
I would be grateful to those who respond to please include your first name and age as I need to table this in my research.
Many thanks
Karl
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Hi, Karl. My first name is Tin. My last name is Man. I am 50. (That's 350 in dog years.) My three most common objections to God/Jesus/Bible are as follows....
1. Countless Contradictions
2. Incoherent Inconsistencies
3. Absolute Absurdities
Best of wishes to you on your assignment.
Harry Grinseed. 65. (That's 7,830 in cockatoo years.) Amateur atheist survey participant.
Only three eh? Hmmm...
1. No christian I have ever met has ever raised anyone from the dead. Are you a christian? Have you raised anyone from the dead? Jesus said his guys could do that, no problem. If you can't, are you back sliding or not really christian?
2.The Trinity is really complicated to understand, its like quantum mechanics for triangles, but then you might be more into Unitarianism. In any case why is it that the one true christian god, broadcasting his truth through his bible would leave his worshippers to have to choose between two mutually incompatible concepts about himself? Unitarians are left to risk committing the unforgiveable sin and end up in hell. How fair is that? Its the sort of thing you might expect if the bible had actually been written by men without the divine guidance, don't you think?
3.I don't understand why prayer is even necessary. An omnipotent god would already know what any of us needed (and note I did not say wanted) and its not like you can ask for lots of money out of the blue or your amputated limb to regrow or world peace even...given lots of violence is undertaken in god's name...so why are so many christians so passionate about prayer and why so excited about public prayer in large auditoriums with lots of people? I remember Jesus saying do it all in private.
This was a serious, even if you think it unexpected, reply. I sincerely hope you will include it in your assignment even if it doesn't fit your table. Best of luck with your assignment.
When you get your results back, drop back and let us know how you were graded and share the findings of your research with us. We do a lot of this sort of thing for christian colleges and schools all over the world. We are world renowned for our atheist survey responses, but no-one will come back to let us know how we rated as godless atheists and we'd really appreciate the feedback.
Best wishes Karl.
Hi Karl:
"what are the three most common objections that you have against Christianity (eg., God, Jesus, or the Bible) and why"?
1. Christianity: It's not our fault your religion can not get its shit together. 30,000 sects. Trinity, no trinity. Jesus was a man/prophet inspired by god, Jesus was a man chosen by god. Jesus was adopted by god at his baptism. Jesus was born co-equal with god and was there at the beginning. Jesus is god. What in the hell is wrong with you? Salvation is through grace. Salvation is through works. Salvation is through Grace and works? The bible is 100% accurate. The Bible is somewhat accurate, except for the parts that are allegories. The bible is all allegory. When you say "Christianity, what in the hell are you talking about?" The Mormons, Catholics, JW, Evangelics, etc.... Are not real Christians, The Church up the street has been influenced by false teachings and false prophets. At the end of times there will be many false prophets. Christianity is an amoral religion of hate.
Christianity is an "In group / out group." "closed" religion. You are either a member and saved or you are an outsider and damned for all eternity. "You are with me or against me and if you are lukewarm you will be spit from the mouth of god." This black and white logic is heinously evil. It leads to bigotry and prejudice against all non-believers and anyone with an alternative lifestyle. Your Good Book damns me to hell.
Your Christian faith makes no sense at all. God creates a hell where he can send people he does not like. Then he comes to earth so he can kill himself in a blood sacrifice so he can save us from himself and the hell that he created for for us.
Your religion is amoral. Rape, steal, rob, arson, kill, murder, molest children, engage in any act of horror and as long as you beg for forgiveness, invite Jesus into your heart, and join the faith.... YOU ARE FORGIVEN. Are you fking insane? Throw great people who just don't believe in hell ;and forgive all manner of evil doers to join you in Heaven. Your religion is corrupt from the ground up.
GOD: Which God? Your God of the Bible is an amoral asshole. The God of the bible butchers 28,000,000 innocent men, women, and children. He takes joy in cutting open the stomachs of pregnant women and dashing their unborn babies onto rocks. He holds children responsible for the crimes of their parents. He demands that you kill anyone who tries to pull you away from the faith. As Jesus he flat our says "I have not come to bring peace but a sword. I have come come to turn family members against each other. You must hate your father, mother, sister and brother, aunts and uncles to follow me." Jesus IS the same as the god of the old testament. "Drop everything now and follow me because you are more important than a flower. Forget your families and God will provide." The god of the bible is a complete asshole.
NO ONE EVER DEFENDS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. Look to your Christian apologetic. What god do they profess exists. A moral god. (That is not in the Bible.) An all powerful god that exists beyond time and space, a first cause (That is not in the bible/) The cosmological argument. The ontological argument. Presuppositionalism. The argument from minimal facts. NO ONE DEFENDS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE. NO ONE. Your god is a complete asshole. As for all the other Gods the Christians, Muslims, etc.... try to push onto the world, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE for the existence of God of gods. The idea of a God is an non-falsifiable claim. There IS no good reason to believe in a god.
Jesus: Please prove he existed and if he existed; he existed as a god on earth.
We have no evidence contemporary to the imagined life of Jesus supporting his existence. NONE. At best, you have Origin, Tacitus, Piny the Younger or a few other authors who tell us what Christians were saying. You have Paul who does not even know Jesus existed on the earth. Paul knows nothing about a virgin birth or the ministry of Jesus. Paul knows nothing at all that is not in scripture of divinely inspired and he is your oldest author. Jesus, an ancient faith healer who heals the blind by spitting in their eyes and rubbing them? Really? If you want someone to take this Jesus character seriously you have a whole lot of work in front of you to simply prove he was real. Belief is not justified.
Hi Karl
My first Name is OldMan. "I" am older than my teeth yet younger than my tongue.
Not sure whether I have 3 'common " objections.
I will ask you: which 'god" once you specify, i.e which one of the several that is mentioned in the Bible (and there are quite a few) then I can answer properly.
Objections to jesus? None. Jesus was my gardener for years. Oh...you mean the famous one...Please supply contemporary third party corroboration of the jesus as described in the gospels and we can talk .
Objections to the Bible? Hmmm, that is a hard one to answer...lets start with with genocide, misogyny, rape, stonings...well, you get the picture...terrible book and he dies in the end...SPOILER!
Have a great day and enjoy grade school....
Hello Karl
You don't really need to know my name. Just mark me down as Algebe. I'm 35 Martian years old, but I've orbited the Sun nearly 67 times on this planet.
There are many objections to Christianity. But I think the best way to judge a religion, a country, or a person is to look at what they did when they had a lot of power. It's easy to be noble and admirable when you're downtrodden and persecuted, or to offer the gentle hand of friendship when you're trying to gather a following. However, to see the true face of Christianity, you need to study its behavior during the Crusades, the Thirty Years War, the Irish Troubles, the Rwandan Genocide, ethnic cleansing in the Balkans...
To be fair, let's consider also how Islam behaves in Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc., how Hindu behaves in India, or Buddhism in Sri Lanka and Myanmar.
All of these religions are cruel monsters that speak softly and offer the gentle hand of friendship until they gain some power, and then the hidden claws and fangs come out. That is their true nature.
Power strips the mask away from these religions, revealing them to be snarling, snapping, clawing, murderous monsters that need to be kept in cages. Those who don't learn from history are likely to be molested by a priest or burned alive for heresy.
Hi, I am Dave, ex-sailor, miner, construction worker and electrician. I am 68 years old, 0.8 years calculated according to Uranus.
The bible is a false narrative, there is absolutely zero proof that the weird stuff actually happened. As well, the bible has been used to initiate and justify genocide, slavery, and other evils. It also preaches exclusivity, of separating people instead of bringing them together.
Organized religion is a sham, and there is nothing that secular organizations (social clubs, charities, therapy and guidance) can not do better.
I have no problem with people of faith, only as long as they keep it to themselves. I do take issue when theists attempt to force their agenda on teaching and politics.
Please remember that when organized religion was unchecked, they burned people at the stake for lack of belief, murdered children in horrific ways, and did not respect other communities.
For example, the philosophy that drove 19th-century U.S. territorial expansion, Manifest Destiny held that the United States was destined—by God, to expand. Genocide on a grand scale was initiated, resulting in the deaths of millions. In 1860 an army officer at Fort Humboldt observed, "Cold-blooded Indian killing being considered honorable, shooting Indians and murdering even squaws and children that have been domesticated for months and years, without a moment's warning and with as little compunction as they would rid themselves of a dog."
That is the true face of christianity.
Usually I dispense with biographical details when covering the nature of ideas, as these are superfluous to requirements and irrelevant, but in this case, assuming at the start that your stated research project is genuine, the information you will need for your table is "David, 57". Not to be confused with Heinz 57 varieties, for those who remember those distant television adverts. But I digress.
The first of my objections is a general one, not specific to the mythology you specify, but applies to all mythologies. Namely, that mythologies are found, upon examination, to be nothing more than collections of blind assertions, which the authors intended to be treated uncritically as true, regardless of whatever observational data or formal deductions lead to entirely different conclusions. You will find that I have expounded upon the proper rules of discourse, and the proper treatment of assertions, at length here and elsewhere, so I won't repeat the content in this post. Diligence in searching for my output will be duly rewarded. The relevant expositions, once you alight upon them, should prove informative in this respect.
Second, and again, this is not particularly specific to the mythology you specify, mythologies have a habit of containing assertions that are later found, via suitably diligent investigation, to be plain, flat, wrong. The mythology of choice for your project is particularly replete with these, ranging from cosmological assertions that are quite obviously fatuous to anyone who has paid attention in basic science classes, through to assertions about the planet and its biosphere that range from the incompetent to the outright comically absurd. The mere fact that this mythology contains such assertions in quantity, is sufficient on its own to refute any suggestion that this body of text deserves any special status, or deserves to be regarded as a source of substantive knowledge. Again, this mythology is not unique in the genre in this regard, and only attracts additional scrutiny over and above that which it deserves, because it has vocal, well-funded and politically well-connected adherents, who seek to impose its strictures upon the rest of us.
Third, and again, I address here a phenomenon not unique to this mythology, it contains glaring omissions that are wholly inconsistent with any work purporting to be a comprehensive body of knowledge. The authors of this mythology, were manifestly incapable of even fantasising about vast classes of entities and phenomena, which have since not only been alighted upon by scientists, but placed by said scientists within usefully predictive, quantitative bodies of substantive knowledge. For example, the authors of this mythology knew nothing about the existence of three major continental land masses here on Earth, and any supernaturalist adherent of this mythology residing on one of those land masses, should regard this omission alone as a source of serious embarrassment. That's before we start factoring in a whole range of other entities and phenomena, that have become the remit of physics, chemistry, biology, astronomy and geology. The authors of this mythology were incapable of counting correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, a task that can be accomplished in the modern age by a reasonably astute five year old child, and I caution against regurgitating the pathetic apologetic attempt to hand-wave away this embarrassment, because my background in invertebrate zoology positions me admirably to destroy said pathetic apologetics.
I have, of course, numerous other objections, and can supply these upon request. Some here will gleefully await such request, knowing in advance what will be delivered in response thereto, but I leave you to ponder on that matter further.
Hi, my name is Jack. 45 years old. I gave up believing long ago. My honest opinion of religion is that it’s the best example of brainwashing you could ever find. Babies are not born religious. They transform into whatever is forced into them at an early age. The whole scam should be illegal. There isn’t one bit of evidence supporting any god or gods of modern times. Anything that has ever been claimed a miracle was something that had a 0 to 100 percent chance of happening anyway. Sometimes, even given 10 percent chance or less, these things will still happen. And why the hell did all the supernatural shit that happened over 2000 years ago stop? It would be so very easy for god or Jesus or any other god to provide us with proof of its existence. If Jesus were to appear and provide us with a cure for cancer, or Alzheimer’s, we would fill every church seat next Sunday. But what we have is a bunch of fucking crooks taking people for everything they can get. My mother in law was complaining last week about money being tight and I told her to give herself a 10 percent raise by not tithing. She looked as if I had slapped her. God and religion is man made. If you remove money from it, it will crumble before your very eyes.
1. that it punishes people for their honest beliefs.
2. that supernatural claims are not falsifiable.
3. that it is a totalitarian ideology.
Hi, Karl. My name is LN, Cyber LN. I am 2 years old in lab rat years. Why lab rat years you ask? Because that’s a bit what I feeling like by your OP.
I cannot give you three reasons as I’ve only one - I don’t see any reason to think it’s true.
Hi Karl,
I have many concerns about Christianity but top ones include:
1. Christianity makes people despise their own nature and that of their species. Default position is humans are born in sin and without a god to teach them morals and right from wrong, they will do all kinds of terrible things. I believe we are born with a moral sense - it's what has allowed our species to survive.
2. Christianity encourages people to do good for the wrong reasons: hope of reward (heaven), fear of punishment (hell). Atheists do good for its own sake, expecting no reward, fearing no punishment. Which is the most moral, most compassionate act, then?
3. Christianity makes people weak, makes them dogde responsibility. Useless prayer rather than action, faith rather than action, it's god's will rather than facing our responsibility and lack of action. When we know we are not eternal children under the complete authority and care of an eternal parent, we take responsibility for our actions and inactions. We don't just sit around waiting for eternal daddy to exhert his will.
There are so many other reasons to close the door on Christianity: there is no reason to believe in it's god or book; it is extremely cruel, heavy handed in punishment for the most ridiculous, human actions; it is very mysoginistic; it promotes ignorance, slowing down human progress; it is intolerant; it looks forward to the apocalypse instead of sorting out our species troubles...
Good luck with your assignment. I hope you let us know how it worked out.
You can call me Mr. N. and I'm 45 years old.
I'll let George Carlin give my answer.
No one can demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity.
It is a demonstrable fact that humans create fictional deities.
The christian bible is too obviously a work of primitive fiction, a fiction that bears no resemblance to many objectively evidenced scientific facts. It is also deeply cruel and immoral in many places.
@Sheldon,
You really have mastered the art of saying what we all think here.
I have nothing to add... Yet the only thing that I can say is that the Bible is one of the greatest tool for the inhibition of our potential as a specie.
@Karl
You can see peoples entered age by looking at their profile. (Click their avatar picture.)
I am 36, put me down as skepticDude101 for my name. If you don't like that pick whatever name you like, I don't really care.
1.) Lack of real empirical evidence for any "god" idea. (I could put this down for all 3, but I will give you 2 more reasons)
2.) Tons of real empirical evidence that man has made up the various god ideas.
3.) The bible in no way seems to have divine inspiration or special knowledge, the bible origins feels like it was written ~2000 plus years ago by people with the limited knowledge they have of that time. Further evidenced by the fact the origins of the bible was written by 2000 year old technology of that time. Full of contradictions, and written by and for a culture 1000 + years ago. The need for a "new testament" should clue people in on this fact as well.
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Educate Yourself --- Do some real research!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJNNg-CT7Gw&t=20240s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr0D7W6zPSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvKxJc-huEA
Karl,
Welcome to the arena.
My name is Diotrephes and I'm a codger past his use by date. I think I'm 83 but I thought that 60 years ago.
"My question is "what are the three most common objections that you have against Christianity (eg., God, Jesus, or the Bible) and why"?"
As you become more knowledable about the biblical fairy tale you will realize that it is just a silly story written to amuse people It is basically a collection of riddles. When you hear or read a biblical story you are supposed to identify which of the Ten Commandments it illustrates. The real Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 34;11-28 and and all of the stories are based on what is found in Exodus 34:10-28.
1. The word "God" is just a title. There are thousands of Gods. Each is unique and has its own specific attributes. So when discussing Gods you need to identify exactly which one you mean. As far as the biblical Gods are concerned no one except the con men really believed in them. When people had the chance they would have rather worship a rock or a tree or the moon.
In the Exodus story the people supposedly saw all of the miracles (Exodus 34:10) that Jealous had done. Heck, they had just walked across the Red Sea on dry land and saw Jealous put on a magic show on the mountain. So what did they do? They immediately kicked him to the curb and started worshiping an Egyptian deity, the golden calf. Then Moses, the con man, got his thugs together (the Levites) and killed 3,000 people exercising freedom of religion. In return, Moses gave his goons all the money, fancy robes, the best food, cushy jobs, and a retirement plan when they reached 55 years of age. Meanwhile, all of the dummies had to work till the day they died.
According to the fairy tale what is the one thing that the biblical God can do for you that you can't do for yourself?
He might give you eternal life if you pass his exam. Other than that there is nothing. So if the idea of living forever cooped up in a giant golden cube on a waterless planet that has no darkness appeals to you then believe away.
I come from a long line of Ammonite bastards (Deuteronomy 23:2-3) so I'm on his shit list and it does me no good to believe in him. When I die my corpse is supposed to be cremated so I doubt if I will fear being tossed into the lake of fire.
2. There was no one named "Jesus" 2,000 years ago because that name didn't exist until about 1631. So if the character did exist and did do the things he reportedly did his name was not "Jesus" but something else, maybe "Apple Sauce". Why is that important? Becausde the character said that if you ask for anything in his name that he would give it to you. That won't work if you don't know his actual name and "Jesus" isn't it.
Besides, the Jesus character was an intolerant hateful racist bigot who had a lot of bad habits. He really isn't a very good role model.
3. The Bible is a beautifully written book that flows seamingless from start to finish. A lot of people call it crap. Some people think that it was written around the 3rd Century or so in Greek and Hebrew. I think the evidence shows that it was written by a committee based in England in the 680s-690s and written in Latin. The committee wrote three master copies, each weighing about 75 pounds. One still survives. No earlier authentic Bible exists. All subsequent Bibles are derived from one of those three master copies.
Although the Bible is the best selling book of all time very few people actually read it. And of the few who do read it even fewer really think about what they have read.
For instance, one of the claims is that the Bible teaches morality. Well if you read the Bible you will understand why that claim is BS and illogical. In Genesis 3:22 the God character said that the man has become like one of us and knows the difference between good and evil. So that means that man knows as much as God himself about those two things so what else can God tell man about them? Why was it necessary for Moses to come out with all of his silly laws when man already knew what was moral? Why was it necessary for the Jesus character to add his two-bits to the mix in Matthew chapters 5-7? If God gave Moses all of those laws why didn't he give him the ones that Jesus came up with hundreds of years later? If Jesus came up with his rules why didn't he include the ones that Paul added? If Paul said that the Moses laws are no longer applicable isn't he saying that God and Jesus were full of BS with their rules and that only his (Paul's) matter?
The bottom line is that all of the biblical stories teach just two things: complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss. That's it.
Hello! My name is Kevin, and I am 33.
1 - Morally objectionable: There are examples of actions that most people would agree are good and actions that most people would agree are bad. I hear many claims that morality comes from the Bible. However, most Christians ignore the bad (Slavery, killing rape victims, etc.) and focus on the good (Love your neighbor as yourself). If it is true that morality comes from the Bible, we would have no mechanism giving us the ability to pick and choose which rules to follow. We would need to follow all of them.
2 - It doesn't matter if you're a good person: Someone who acts immorally for most of their life and then converts to Christianity gets rewarded while someone who acts morally, but does not convert gets punished.
3 - The premise of original sin is repugnant: The idea behind Christianity is that Adam and Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge that the omniscient God knew full well that they would eat and now he punished allof their descendants with original sin. I have several problems with this:
First, no human could ever get away with punishing someone's offspring for the crimes of one of their parents. The idea that if my father stole something and he got jailed, then it was decided that I and everyone all down the line would get jailed too is laughable.
Second, God has the ability to remove the rule of original sin and forgive us all from punishment for something that 0.0000000019% of humanity ever did, but instead he sends himself/his son down to get tortured because he needs to see blood to make a new agreement with us.
Third, if we don't accept his sacrifice and agree to be a follower of Jesus, he punishes us. I would ask any parent: What would your child have to do before you would send them to a professional torturer to be tortured for even an hour? If I don't agree to follow Jesus, I get tortured for an eternity, but God loves me? I could go into a gas station and the attendant who has never met me loves me much more than that - enough to never have me tortured.
A little long, sorry for that! Verbosity is a flaw of mine. Hope this helps.
Skeptical Kevin,
"3 - The premise of original sin is repugnant: The idea behind Christianity is that Adam and Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge that the omniscient God knew full well that they would eat and now he punished allof their descendants with original sin."
Actually Adam and Eve's crimes were they were disobedient and disloyal. They trusted the word of someone else over Jealous's, which is a violation of the First Commandment = Exodus 34:11-16. It is all about being completely obedient and loyal, regardless of the temptation.
Remember, the king of Tyre got kicked out of the Garden of Eden for that (Ezekiel chapter 28).
@Diotrephes, I stand corrected, thank you.
I still stand by this being repugnant on the part of god as he punished and continues to punish others for Adam's and Eve's disobedience. It strikes me as unjust.
Skeptical Kevin,
Well, technically Ezekiel changed the rules so now each person is only responsible for his own deeds (Ezekiel chapter 18).
And remember, on Judgment Day each person is judged on his own deeds (Revelation 20:13).
Diotrephes, I was led by Christian friends and my (admittedly limited) experience with church services that we are all born with original sin because of Adam's and Eve's actions in the Garden of Eden and the only way to be forgiven is through Jesus.
Are you saying this is not correct?
I hope I'm not coming off angsty, I truly am interested in your thoughts. If I am wrong in my belief, I would like to know so I can learn the correct ideas.
Skeptical Kevin,
"...I would like to know so I can learn the correct ideas."
Only you can determine the correct ideas for you. You might find that your ideas will change from time to time as you age and go through different experiences.
It has been my experience that my ideas have changed over the course of my life and if I continue to live they will probably change again in some significant way. One thing I have discovered over the years of discussing the Bible and other religious fairy tales is that by personally reading and analyzing them you will eventually see them for what they are. You need to use all of your reasoning and analytical skills.
IMO the key to understanding the Bible is to know what the real Ten Commandments are (Exodus 34:11-28) and that the miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. It is also important to know that all of the stories teach just two things, complete obedience and total loyalty to the Boss. Once you completely undestand that then you can read the stories and get the correct ideas for yourself.
The Jesus character said that the stars will fall to the Earth (Matthew 24:29, Revelation 6:13, Revelation 12:4). Good luck with that = https://www.schoolsobservatory.org/learn/astro/stars/class/starsize
http://2ality.com/2011/03/visually-comparing-sizes-of-earth-other.html
Yeah, original sin is an extremely common doctrine in Christianity (I've encountered it hundreds of times). You'll have to forgive Diotrephes; he has some really weird ideas.
Meanwhile, in other news ...
Will this Karl character be making other details of this "research project" public, so that we can perform some elementary provenance checking? Inquiring minds would like to know. I'm also interested to find out about the academic institution he's attending. Not least because I've seen instances of people racking up their Dembski Points by visiting forums such as this, specifically so that they can gain pass marks for peddling fundamentalist or creationist dogma thereto.
Plus, another question we should be asking, is this: if the "academic institution" in question is merely another religious propaganda mill, what is being done within this organisation with the data being gathered? Only I'm aware of the fact, that in a genuine academic institution, there exist strict rules about the gathering of personal data, and doing so, if deemed to be necessary, has to be run past an ethics committee before permission is granted. On the other hand, religious propaganda mills have a habit of playing fast and loose with ethical considerations, when the objective of the exercise involves an agenda that skirts dangerously close to violation of the Establishment Clause and other separation of church and state provisions.
TOPIC: An objection to Christianity
Hello, Karl. Welcome to our little corner of the WWW hell. Come on in. The temperature is a delightful 15,104°C. Just ask any theist.
Well, let's see whachya got.
""What are the three most common objections that you have against Christianity (eg., God, Jesus, or the Bible) and why"?"
Only three? I have many, many more. Since you do not specifically provide definitions, I am making the following assumptions for my answers:
"I am a student researching why certain groups do not believe in the Bible, Jesus Christ or God."
What "groups"? There is only one "group that does not believe any claims about any deities. We are labeled "atheist." Or, as I was growing up "satanically possessed godless heathens." Yes, seriously. That is what people like me were called by those damnable Bible-thumping Baptist Bible Belters. May their deaths be painful.
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Required Definition:
Religious Absolutist – anyone belonging to and possessing a belief in any religion, due to their inexorable absolutist beliefs, and is truly applicable to any inexorable religious believers, especially the worst subset, Apologists.
The difference between a Religious Absolutist and a Religious Person is that the Absolutist completely believes the Bible is inerrantly correct and will not accept any evidence that truthfully proves their beliefs are completely incorrect. A Religious Person actually believes science to be true and views the Bible as basically a fairy tale, excepting the very few true truths it does hold.
As for the Apologists, I love the way David summed them up:
Other Definitions (mine):
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Here is a good list of objections to any religion:
And these points are all I need to prove religion is Pure Evil.
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No claims for the existence of any deity can survive The Eleven Razors:
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This is also how any religion is:
“Wish in one hand (religion) and do something with the other. Squeeze both hands real hard and see which one comes true.” — Prince Corwin, Chronicles of Amber
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Arakish: “I see NO evidence of ANY gods, but plenty of evidence of religion’s harm.”
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Arakish: “Of course, the biggest hurdle to now fight is Islam. However, how do you fight against a religion that literally threatens those who do not believe with real, true physical harm and death? Islam is literally a militacracy. It is not actually a religion. It is an ideology completely bent on wiping out the human species except for those who accept its maniacal totalitarian tyranny. Islam should not be thought of as a religion, nor should it enjoy the protection in the USA as a religion. Islam is actually a method of psychological terrorism and warfare masquerading as a religion. Until those fighting against Islam as I do realize this simple fact, Islam is going to be damned near invincible. And it is spreading across the globe like a pandemic. Treat Islam as the mental disorder and disease that it is. NOT as a religion.”
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Chrsitianity claims that their sky faerie gives man free will to choose or not choose. WRONG! Christianity's sky faerie completely annihilates free will with the threat of eternal damnation and torture and torment for not choosing it. How can one have free will with such a threat of utter violence? And if you wish to see how I actually view any "god" then watch this video: The Greater Insult.
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In case you think differently, I understand that horrible, obsolete, irrelevant, repulsive, ancient, obnoxious, barbaric, execrable, inappropriate, offensive, savage, horrendous, abominable, loathsome, repugnant, disgusting, inapplicable, and unsubstantiated piles of lies and bullshit plagiarized from myths and legends FAR! older than in Bronze and Iron Age texts. Some of those plagiarized myths and legends are THOUSANDS of years older.
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My Ten Commandments of Humanity
And these ten are more relevant than any ten thousand you could come up with from your Sky Faerie.
And you Religious Absolutists are damnably hell-bent on forcing your beliefs onto all others, violating my Fourth Commandment. As Christopher Hitchens once said, and I paraphrase, “Why must a theist's happiness rely on me having the same beliefs as he has?”.
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Here is the ultimate summation of both Christianity and Islam:
Arakish: “You are to live in peace, love, and brotherhood, but only with those of like minds (beliefs system). All others are to be put to the sword (killed).”
And this is written in both the unholy anthologies.
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And, now you can go and look at this list of questions: Just Some Questions I Thought.
rmfr
Hi all,
Just wanted to thank you all for your contributions,much appreciated for your honest and candid opinions.
regards
Karl
[EDIT] Clarifying my syllogism
Hi Karl. You can mark me down as Terraphon, Terra, T or whatever you like. I'm 11.96 leap-years old.
3 objections, huh?
1) The god of the bible is stupid and has no ability to use logic (yet apologists say logic comes from god) and he's a known liar.
2) The god of the bible, who is supposed to be omniscient and omnipotent, is neither. He can't even make a dummy follow his commands and is unable to foresee the problems caused by his own lack of foresight.
3) The god of the bible is an asshole and punishes people solely based on the facts presented in 1 and 2, above.
And now, to state my case. Brace yourself because I'll bury the entire religion, based on the first 3 chapters of the very first book (and these aren't even new points/arguments).
In the beginning, etc., etc., and then god decided to make Adam and have him work the garden because he's a lazy git and didn't want to do it himself (the first sign that the biblical god is a lump).
Then he took Adam on the grand tour and told him to not eat the magic apples from a particular tree:
"The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, 'You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.'"
Here's problem number one: God violated one of his own eventual commandments by LYING to Adam. He told him he would die if he ate the magic apples from that particular tree and that was a lie. Sure, you could argue that the "death" was the "death of innocence" or some crap like that but you'd be arguing against the context of the statement. "YOU will certainly die"...So don't try it unless and until you can prove that god meant something other than the obvious.
Here's problem number two: God gave a command to Adam that he should not eat the magic apples from the tree of "the knowledge of good and evil". He didn't want Adam to have the knowledge of good and evil. Well...If you don't know good from evil, right from wrong, what you're supposed to do versus what you're not supposed to do, how can you be held accountable for doing something that the guy who isn't even able to use logic told you not to do? So, "god" does not have the ability to use simple logic...Here's a nice false syllogism which outlines this perfectly:
Adam does not know the difference between right and wrong. (Fact)
"God" commanded Adam to not learn the difference between right and wrong. (Fact)
Adam learned the difference between right and wrong (Fact)
Therefore, Adam knowingly did wrong by disobeying "god's" command. (False)
He can't have knowingly done wrong if he couldn't have known that wrong existed.
Back to to the story: Then he couldn't find anyone to hang out with Adam and HE sure didn't want to do it, so he did some blood magic and created Eve...Apparently because he reckoned Adam was going to get lonely and bitch about it. (This is a somewhat common theme in the bible...appease a man by giving him a woman. Sexist, much?)
So now we have Adam and Eve...Two people who don't know the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, etc., hanging out in the garden, all naked and innocent and with no clue, whatsoever, that bad things exist. Eve, being innocent and naive and with no clue that bad things exist gets approached by a thing they call a serpent, that isn't even a serpent yet because it does not yet slither on its belly and he TELLS HER THE TRUTH. He tells her that Big G is really a big, fat liar, lair, pants on fire and that she's not going to die if she eats the magic apple from that particular tree.
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’”
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
The "serpent" didn't deceive, her; He told her the truth! You won't DIE, you'll just learn good and evil. Well, of course Eve doesn't know the difference between good and evil...At this point she has no concept, whatever, of those terms or what they mean. All she knows is that the magic apple looks damned tasty. She doesn't know it's "wrong" to eat it. She has no concept of lies and deception because, according to the bible, those are EVIL and she doesn't even know what EVIL means.
All she knows is that the magic apple looks ok to eat and that she's hungry.
And so, she nommedeth the magic apple, and then gave some to Adam and he nommedeth of it, also.
And "god" was PISSED, because logic had completely failed him and his lie had been exposed. (And logic is supposed to be "of god"? Please...)
So now, he totally screws EVERYONE. He curses the serpent for all time and eternity, because it told the truth! WHAT?!
“Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
So homeboy told it how it was and god wrecked him for it. Not only did he turn him into a snake but he made it so women would forever fear and hate snakes (which, again, isn't true and we know this) and that their offspring would fear and hate snakes (again, not true) and that for all time and eternity, men and snakes would kill one another at every turn (again, NOT TRUE).
All because he was pissed that his lie was exposed.
He screws every woman, ever, for all time and eternity, because Eve didn't buy his bullshit, by making them go through hell to propagate and by making her desire her husband, who will rule over her (the very first sign of women being inferior to men is in the third chapter of the first book of your bible)
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
Then, he turns to Adam and not only screws him over but completely screws over the entire planet he just made. He curses the ground so that things would not just grow from it without "painful toil" (which we know to be false) and basically tells him that he's going to have to bust his ass, every day, for the rest of his life, just to be able to eat. Every single day until he kicks the bucket.
“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”
"Cursed is the ground, because of YOU"? No... "Cursed is the ground because I can't use logic and reason and was too much of a dipshit to realize that you can't know that disobeying my supreme, godly command is wrong, because you don't know what the hell 'wrong' means!"
And there you have it. The first three chapters of the first book of your bible completely disassemble your entire religion.
And those are just the very beginnings of my objections to christianity. Let me know if you would like me to carry on.
@Terraphon Re: "Let me know if you would like me to carry on."
Yes, by all means, please do. I rather enjoyed that... *chuckle*...
@Tin Man : I'll tell ya...If I didn't have to work for a living I could go on and on and on. Maybe, when I retire, I'll dissect the entire bible, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse and do with the whole thing what I've done with the first 3 chapters here.
Thing is that anyone who reads the book, with a TRULY open mind and the ability to apply logic and reason can't possibly come away thinking anything other than it is a very poorly written work of fiction. I mean, honestly, if a modern writer was to submit something so riddled with inconsistencies, time paradoxes, self-contradictions and contextual failures as the "book of books", to a publishing house, they'd get laughed right out the door.
That this thing still has traction is a testament to the fact that half the people on the planet have a lower-than-average IQ and find comfort in simply not knowing.
Ignorance is bliss.
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