Hello everyone,
I previously asked why Jesus seems to show up in Near Death Experiences while Muslims have never documented a case of seeing the prophet. Doing a lot of research, I found that they do expect to see Muhammad when they die during judgement day, and potentially afterwards if they make it to heaven. However, I know they also don't worship Muhammad, the way Christians worship Jesus. I thought that this might explain why Muhammad doesn't show up in NDEs while Jesus does: anytime a Christian sees a light or has a feeling of warmth, they claim they felt the presence of Jesus. While, in a Muslim NDE, they would not likely interpret light or feelings of familiarity and positivity with Muhammad. Also, Muslims do not have any images of Muhammad, so there would be less to potentially hallucinate there. I was pretty satisfied with this answer as to why Christians see Jesus, whereas Muslims rarely (if ever) encounter Muhammad. However, then I did some more reading, and found that Jesus appears physically different to different people. I found that to many, he has dark hair, big eyes, a beard, etc. Many pictures of him do not depict dark hair, and some people see him as tanned as well. NDErs use the excuse that: "Jesus shows up differently to all of us, in a way we understand or imagine him, so that our spiritual journey will make the most sense to us". One woman even described him as looking nothing like Jesus from pictures. Yet, some people say this Jesus they see does look like Jesus in traditional paintings. I can't quite explain that one: that it seems the appearance of Jesus doesn't matter, but Christians still see him, while Muslims don't see Muhammad. I know some Muslim NDE researchers originally thought they would find Muslim NDEs with Muhammad in them, but there is yet to be one recorded one. Would the fact that Jesus shows up in different images give Christianity a better chance of being true over Islam, or is there a chance there is another explanation that we haven't found yet?
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No.
RT No.
Muslims are expressly forbidden to depict Mohammed in any way, even in their imaginings. That is a conditioning from childhood that sticks.
It is unsurprising then that Mohammed doesn't appear in NDE. They have no life experience to go on whilst christians are surrounded by imagery and idolatry every day. Christians merely allow their experience to fill in the hallucination of a dying brain. The fact that no person sees the same 'jesus' is because it is made up of their own unique experience and prejudice.
The fact that no non christian (those never exposed to cultural christianity) explains why they don't see jeesus either.
So RT, once again a loaded post. And once again a nonsense.
That's a good answer, and honestly, I think that as well. I do see many NDEs where Jesus appears differently than in traditional paintings, the people just claim the figure they see claims to be Jesus, or they can just tell. I asked a few Muslims why Muhammad doesn't show up, and they either say they don't know, or because Satan is tricking Christians into believing in Jesus. I guess we don't fully know but I do know that they don't have the same relationship feeling with Muhammad as Christians do with Christ. Christians feel like they personally know Jesus, which is reflected in these NDEs when they say "I knew it was Jesus" or "I could tell this presence was familiar". That being said, their experiences tend to be much more detailed than people of others faiths.
@ RT
Precisely because they have been conditioned to think that in christianity.
It is not a hard concept. If I told you every day that a German Shepherd would be waiting for in heaven every day of your life, surrounded you with pictures an stories of this magical canine...guess what your NDE would be of a gente German Shepherd come to rescue you.
That's how the brain works.
"Near Death Experiences" can be recreated through the use of ketamine - does this make horse tranquilizers true?
Why does such an experience have more weight than sober reality?
@Sapporo, yes, ketamine can, but there are also many users of Ketamine who report nothing of the sort, including strange, scattered experiences. I just think that scientists spend too little time on this concept. I'm not saying for certain it is real in the sense that the soul actually leaves the body, but I feel more research is needed to just explain it away, and even though I know it may sound biased, many Christian NDEs sound a lot deeper and closer to their religion than NDEs from other faiths. I just wanted to know why,
...and there have been billions of people who have had no knowledge of Jesus, nevermind an experience of him.
"I feel more research is needed to just explain it away,"
Explain what away? People dream, brains that are dying from a lack of oxygen don't suddenly become more reliable at storing memories, I'd have thought that was axiomatic. The fact people's minds conjure up reassuring imagery based on their religious beliefs requires no explanation as far as I can see. There is no evidence to justify attaching anything supernatural to this experience.
@Sheldon, I see what you mean, but still, why don't Muslims have as deep experiences as Christians?
Others on this board has already answered this question for you multiple times.
Christians are conditioned to see Jesus all over, where Muslims are conditioned to not to see their god all over in a visual manner.
It really is that simple.
@LogicForTW
Do you think that holds true even for people who claim Jesus looked nothing like the traditional paintings?
@Russian-Tank What difference does it make? HOLY FUCK. You seriously need to get a hobby Pal.
Your questions were answered multiple times yet you still ask the same questions over and over again!!!
@Russian-Tank
Yes. I do.
Again with this shit Russian Tank? Go the fuck away. I am tired of your obsession with this bullshit!
Well hello St. Mycob guarding the pearly forum gates determining whose questions should be allowed in or not. We tremble at the thought of your exhaustion and wrath.
Hopefully RT's chronic NDE threads will experience an actual demise soon! Boring!
I can assure you that your head would be hanged for everyone to see in Muslim countries if you ever think of imagining Muhammad or picturing him in your head. You are not allowed to see a photo or a movie of him and you need to defend his honor no matter what are the consequences, Dead or Alive!! LOL
Looks like you don't really know how dreams works? Whenever you think of something way too much such as death or someone you know of, It'll always comes in your dreams. That's the way consciousness works.
@SUPERNOVA
OK. Then explain to me why Muslims report dreaming of Muhammad and seeing him? They brag about it. So they obviously want to see him, and if NDEs are hallucinations, they should be able to hallucinate him lol
@Russian-Tank And you believe them? LOL.
Let me explain to you something as i lived with Muslims my entire life. They sure brag about it but they've never seen him! BECAUSE THERE'S NO PICTURE OF HIM.
If they keep seeing Jesus it's because his photo is hanged everywhere. You can't dream of Muhammad. You might think you've seen him but it's not him because your mind would be playing tricks on you.
I had this very discussion with a friend who is very RELIGIOUS. He told that he have seen Muhammad in his dreams and i asked him what did he look like? He says "I couldn't see him due to the bright light that was coming out his face" but he described that he got a long white beard. LOL
This explains that they don't see him as they've never seen a picture of him otherwise you'll see every Muslims brag about it like Christians DO.
@SUPERNOVA
Thanks for the answer, I was not aware of that. Let me ask you this, even if Christians claim that the Jesus they saw looked different than Jesus in traditional paintings, would you still think the difference in cultural religious teachings would be sufficient to answer the question?
You know what would be interesting. If you read though a bunch of these NDE's that people wrote down and you found they all referenced a spirit named "Lord Lorgruff"; but yet you couldn't find any reference to Lord Lorgruff anywhere other than those accounts. Then you'd have my attention, but that is exactly what we don't find.
And your notion that the rate at which certain characters appear in dreams/hallucinations tells us anything about the truthfulness of any religious message is really weird. Think about it this way: Jesus and Muhammad are very different characters, that fulfill very different roles in their religions. Why would you expect their popularity in dreams/hallucinations (or in anything else for that matter) to be the same?
@Nyarlathotep, you are absolutely correct about their roles differing, and I have asked Muslims personally who do say they don't worship Muhammad, and they don't have a relationship with him the way Christians feel they do with Jesus. Also I have noticed in these NDEs Jesus will often say "I am the Lord your God", meaning they equate him with God, whereas Muslims see Muhammad as man. However, some Muslims are surprised when they find out Muhammad doesn't show up in many NDEs, because skeptics always say that people see what they expect to see, and that people see cultural imagery that is common in their faiths. That is why people expect Muslims should be seeing Muhammad, but they don't.
@Russian-Tank You have to understand that consciousness is no different from one to another as it's the same for everyone else.
It's all related to the culture and the way they are raised. For example!
I have been raised in a Muslim culture and since i was a little kid i used to question anything and everything! I studied Islam in an earlier age under one of the Imam's which i walked miles to get to Dar Quran or you might call it school of quran as it was far away from where i lived.
The way they teach islam is different than Christianity. How?!
They tell you that you will burn in hell and your skin will peel off and grow again.
Translation.
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.shakir/4:56
Basically they grow fear within you to do whatever it takes to avoid that. So when you go home all you think of is HELL and HEAVEN. You think much of it that when you lay your head on the pillow your consciousness plays tricks on you that you dream of hell and heaven more often and you start defending your religion to feel better about it and feel relieved.
Take me for instance! I have seen the Satan in human picture! He's laugh scared the shit out of me. Why? Because they knew how to grow fear within my thoughts but the good thing they couldn't reach to the source which lead to rejections from my consciousness.
I have also seen God in a kid picture just sitting there and staring at me! Why do i dream about these things? Because i used to think about it a lot and i used to be a KID back then not just that. The worst is that i was taught to hate other religions and not get any interaction with anyone from the outsider world and defend the prophet no matter what are the consequences.
I have always been an atheist and i have realized the truth about it when i decided to travel to other countries and study their religions and live with them. Spent around 7-8 year and i realized that all religions are the same! Ask you to kill in the name of God or their Prophets.
I can easily lay my head on the pillow and sleep like a baby! I haven't had any nightmares in years. In fact i only dream 2-3 time every 3 months! Why? Because i don't think of anything negative when i got to sleep. I just play some quiet music and relax.
@SUPERNOVA,
so you are really 100% sure that not seeing Muhammad doesn't give CHristianity a better chance of being true than Islam?
@Russian-Tank OH BOY! No offense but you seriously need to educate yourself more! Im pretty sure you are either religious or agnostic. Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the same questions over and over again. PLEASE DO READ WHAT I JUST SAID.
Your question is not from a logical side as much as religious side and to answer that you have to understand that seeing someone you have never seen is not real and it's only a reflection of your thoughts.
For instance. If you dream of your parents often you wouldn't be asking this question! Because you see them every single day!! Same as Jesus, He's damn photos are hanged everywhere and that's how they dream of him. LOL
And to talk more logically one of the members just explained it to you. "THE LACK OF OXYGEN IN YOUR BRAIN." Your brain is fucked and you end up seeing all kinda of shit, same as getting high knowing you can't handle drugs and you start HALLUCINATING.
@SUPERNOVA
but the thing is that people who see Jesus sometimes say he looked nothing like Jesus in paintings, but way different. Ex, an american will describe him as having dark hair, olive skin, etc. Some people say they just knew it was him, or he told them who he was. They also say he has deep conversations with him. Is it really true that Muslims don't expect to have that kind of deep experience with the prophet Muhammad? I'm asking because I don't know much about Islam.
@Russian-Tank No offense buddy but It's better to let someone think you are an Idiot than to open your mouth and prove it. LOL.
" if NDEs are hallucinations"
Begging the question, what objective evidence have you that these dreams are anything more?
The logical conclusion of Russian-Tank's speculations is that if one vision of a "Near Death Experience" can be shown to be false, whether through evidence or contradiction, then NDEs are false.
@Sapporo well if I had an answer to this question of mine, which could answer why Christians see Jesus and Muslims dont see Muhammad which didn't require a supernatural answer, then I would probably stop believing in ndes and religion at all for that matter. But, it does seem that Christians have more of their symbols in their ndes than muslims or hindus or buddhists do in theirs.
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