Tolerance and embracing new thoughts

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Diotrephes's picture
Larry A.,

Larry A.,

Why do you think it's rational for a creature who created the universe to have only revealed himself to a bunch of unknown guys thousands of years ago who lived on 10 acres of Middle Eastern dirt and has ignored everyone since? Don't you think that it's more likely that those guys simply made up the story to entertain themselves because they had nothing better to do? Even the Bible says that it's just a story.

Do you have any idea how vast the universe is? It has untold numbers of galaxies, each with billions of stars and trillions of planets. But we are expected to believe that the god character only cares about a few special people who live on a few acres on a very small planet that revolves around a tiny sun in a medium sized galaxy. And then we are expected to believe that that god creature will spend eternity with a handful of people in a 1,500 mile sided golden bejeweled cube on a waterless planet that doesn't have any nights. Those guys thought that the stars were tiny specks of light that would fall to the Earth. You know better than that, don't you?

The story might have made sense when people were dumber than dust but we should be smarter than that in the 21st Century.

Larry A.'s picture


Thanks for your reply. I don't know whether to agree or disagree with you because I don't think Christianity is anything like what you describe here.

To begin I don't think God is a creature. The Bible just says that God is. An uncreated being. But I do believe that God the Son did become a man and did live in a tiny occupied Middle east country two thousand years ago. In fact I believe this Man was a Jew.
I do think it was only Jews who wrote about Him.

Christianity differs from other faiths in this regard - it claims to be a historical faith and invites examination on that basis - as history.

I'll say that much in this post and leave looking at that for other posts if we can kick that around later. I hope we can discuss more slowly later about this.

The God I believe in is concerned about all people since there have been people on this planet. This God desired to be in relationship with all.

We could discuss that later also and also take some time with it - some back and forth posts.

The Universe is vast - but did you know it mostly consists of nothing? Yes I know about the trillions of stars and so on but I have a college level course that was recorded by the Great Courses people - the well credentialed scientist worked out two equations - one was the well know E=MC squared which yields a positive result. The other was another one that describes gravity or negative energy or something - the two cancel each other out and leave approximately nothing.

This is modern systematic science not a part of my faith - but is a justified belief I hold and something that I take on faith - faith that the scientist knew what he was talking about and that he was explaining it properly. I also believe that my faith rests on justified knowledge. I believe rational and thoughtful people have subjected the appropriate texts to critical examination. That I can do some of this work myself - and have to some extent - though I have a limited formal education - but it holds up.

Some of these people are well credentialed historians of the ancient Jews and Romans and their times. Of course others equal in credentials and knowledge take other views - everything in academia today is subject to controversy and dispute. So I have to rely on my own personal experience and on what research I can do myself.

But I would say more on personal experience - Christianity is about a relationship with this God - but it does seem to me that either I have been incredibly lucky over the course of my life ( 70 years ) or that this God has guided my choices in satisfying ways - in spite of my own many screw ups.

I guess this will have to do for this post - hope we can kick some of this around more in following posts.



Nyarlathotep's picture
Larry A. - ...did you know it

Larry A. - ...did you know it mostly consists of nothing...The other was another one that describes gravity or negative energy or something - the two cancel each other out and leave approximately nothing.

It is quite caviler to sum a property of every element of a system, find the sum is 0, then declare the system does not exist. Let me make it a little more concrete.

  • We have a room with 10 people
  • 5 of the people each have a net worth of $1
  • the other 5 people each have a net worth of -$1 (they each are in debt, owing one dollar)
  • The total sum net worth in the room is 0

It would be quite odd for someone to claim that since the total net worth of the room is 0, there is nothing in the room.

Sir Random (Tieler) 's picture
"It would be quite odd for


"It would be quite odd for someone to claim that since the total net worth of the room is 0, there is nothing in the room."

Not necessarily true for the religious mindset. Remember: churches and similar religious institutions tend to see not people, but dollar signs. They then filter that view down as part of The Great Brainwashing.

Larry A.'s picture
I can agree with you. The guy

I can agree with you. The guy that did the course said all the material stuff is borrowed - for negative gravity, I think the lecture was about that. Yeah the "stuff" - I just thought the lecture was interesting. Sorry for not replying sooner - I have my hands more than full here.

Diotrephes's picture
Larry A.,

Larry A.,
There were no "Jews", "Greeks, or "Greece" during ancient times. These words are very recent creations. The first Bible was written by a committee of story tellers, writers, and artists in England around the 690s. It was the master copy. Any copy of the Bible that you see that's supposedly written in Greek is written in the Modern Greek alphabet. IOW, it's just a modern Greek language book. There's no copy of the Bible before the 75 pound edition written in the 690s.

According to the Babylonian Talmud, Shabbath 116a, Jews are directed to destroy the Christian New Testament because it's heretical and Christians are heretics. The Talmud had a very low opinion of the "Jesus" character and boast about killing him using five different methods. "Jesus" didn't exist until around 1630, before that he had another name.

All of the Bibles contained the Apocrypha until 1881-1885 when it was deleted from the Bible versions the Protestants started using. The Catholics kept it.

There is no celestial deity of any kind in this solar system. All gods in all religions are imaginary. Con men created them to gain control over their superstitious buddies and to enrich themselves and to gain personal status by being the god's mouthpieces.

Truett's picture
Hi Larry. I am pleased to

Hi Larry. I am pleased to fully discuss this with you, but I respect Danny and don't want to seize control of his discussion topic. I'll start a new topic; please hop over to that topic and let's talk...

LogicForTW's picture
Very well said. You said what

Very well said. You said what I said above better than I did.

JB God's Country's picture
Hey-Truetts back!

Hey-Truetts back!

Sam's picture
When I talk to theists (which

When I talk to theists (which fortunately isn't often), I never expect to change their minds. Due to various cognitive effects and biases, it is unrealistic to expect to change the mind of the person with whom you are debating/discussing. However, there is likely to be someone listening to the conversation who may be on the fence and your points may be what pushes them over to a more realistic world view. You may never know the effect you had on them, but you certainly did a good thing by having the conversation with the theist.


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