Viruses Disprove Intelligent Design.

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mykcob4's picture
Viruses Disprove Intelligent Design.

It seems to me that the argument for Intelligent Design hinges on the lack of belief in both randomness and mutation (evolution). The problem with said argument is as I have said before that you have to make a huge assumption with no credible and direct evidence of a designer.
If we use nature as evidence then we must include an aspect of nature that is ignored by believers in Intelligent Design. Take viruses.
We are constantly attacked by viruses. Our immune system tries to cope with these attacks, Our weakness as a species is that we do not evolve fast enough. Viruses mutate (evolve) very quickly because their life cycle is very short. Thus their generations are numerous compared to our own. We have to boost our immune system by infecting our bodies with small doses of the virus causing our bodies to build up antibodies to that specific virus. Essentially jump-starting our own mutation (evolution) process.
If there was an intelligent designer, you would think that he/she/it would have compensated for this flaw. If the universe is indeed in perfect order there would be no need for the mutations (evolution), but that is not the case. Evolution (mutations) happened continuously to adapt to various environments.
Of course, evolution isn't the explanation for the onset for everything, only for the variety, but it does point to the flaw in the very idea of Intelligent Design.
Randomness occurs in the mutation of viruses. A particular strain will be initially killed by inoculation and the antibodies in our body, but not fast enough to completely irradicate the virus. The virus mutates at such a rapid pace that some parts of it finally mutate to a point of coping with the antibodies attacking it. Thus the chemical war goes on. Antibiotics are regrown over and over again, force mutated to cope with the changing viruses.

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Harry Truman's picture
If we are to believe in a

If we are to believe in a perfect, entirely benevolent God, that design humans in his image, then yes- but if we assume, for case sale, a cold, impersonal, deistic creator, that created humans but not in his image and not perfect, then it does not. Just as computer viruses do not disprove that computers must be made by intelligent design, and cannot come together via random explosions.

mykcob4's picture
So PROVE this creator. That

So PROVE this creator. That is the responsibility to ANYONE that claims intelligent design. Prove it.
The fact is that viruses spring up at random and they evolve.

Harry Truman's picture
I said that viruses would not

I said that viruses would not disprove an impersonal, non benevolent Creative force, proving that this thing exists is something different, and I would much prefer to have a debate on debate.org about it, the format is much better.

mykcob4's picture
@HT Don't let the door hit

@HT Don't let the door hit you on the ass when you leave. And this time leave. You like taking pot shots but you don't like debating, mainly because you pull out bullshit like Kennedy started the Vietnam War and reference the Gulf of Tonkin as proof, even though Kennedy was already dead when Tonkin took place.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Viruses aren't even alive.

Viruses aren't even alive. Replace viruses with bacteria and your argument will have more merit.

chimp3's picture
http://www.popsci.com/new
mykcob4's picture
The most recent science says

The most recent science says different.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
I took Microbiology last

I took Microbiology last semester, that's a $900 course. The book we used was Brock Biology of Microorganisms 14th edition, that's $200.

That means I spent around $1,100.00 to be taught what viruses are, and why they are non-living. That's 4 month course. In contrast you probably took 5 minutes doing a google search that cost you $0, and latched to the first thing that would contradict me, (Chimp Not Included).

Nyarlathotep's picture
I don't suppose you mind

I don't suppose you mind telling us which page and paragraph of the book says they are not alive?

John 6IX Breezy's picture
No thank you. Citing my

No thank you. Citing my sources never matters here.

MCD's picture
Interesting post. The

Interesting post. The Argument from I spent the most money so I must be right.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Money = Knowledge.

Money = Knowledge.
School > Google.

CyberLN's picture
Please clarify.

Please clarify.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
The internet if full of

The internet if full of misinformation, fake news, and false ideas. I'm not saying the internet is bad, its full of resources. But those resources typically don't include things you can google away. You need access to a secure database.

It costs money to be educated. You can't expect to become an astrophysicist by watching Cosmos, and surfing ".com" sites.

CyberLN's picture
It costs money to attend a

It costs money to attend a facility providing credentials, but does that guarantee one becomes educated? Can you always expect to become an astrophysicist by attending such a facility? Are these facilities exempt from misinformation, fake news, and false ideas? Non-secure db's are typically bad resources? How do you come by this information?

John 6IX Breezy's picture
"Non-secure db's are

"Non-secure db's are typically bad resources? How do you come by this information?"

Try turning in a research paper citing them.

Kataclismic's picture
Actually, knowledge can be

Actually, knowledge can be obtained by going to a library and reading some books. Total cost: $0/No internet necessary.

So the argument that you need money to exchange for knowledge is a logical fallacy. You need money so institutions will give accreditation for the knowledge they provide you with, but knowledge does not come solely from institutions.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
The only good thing about the

The only good thing about the internet is that you can illegally download the PDF of a textbook, like Nyarlathotep just did, and not get caught. But one does wonder how ethical that is.

Libraries don't carry up-to-date textbooks. They might have 1st, 2nd, 3rd editions, but they won't have the brand new 7th edition that's required for class. Trust me, college students would love saving that money and get the textbook free at the library. Regular books are very insightful, but books aren't published based on truthfulness. They don't undergo the type of review that journal entries do. You'll find a Deepak Chopra book, right next to a Carl Sagan book.

Libraries do sometimes give you access to databases, if that's what you mean then you're not contradicting me.

Nyarlathotep's picture
John 6IX Breezy - They might

John 6IX Breezy - They might have 1st, 2nd, 3rd editions, but they won't have the brand new 7th edition that's required for class.

Funny thing is that is similar to what I did in college. Instead of buying the expensive new edition of my textbooks, I just bought a previous version for pennies on the dollar.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Sometimes that works,

Sometimes that works, sometimes it backfires. Teachers will typically let you know how old of an edition you can use before you start running into problems. Keep in mind textbooks update because information updates.

That being said, classes start Monday for me. So if you can find the PDFs for my new textbooks, like you found the Microbiology one, my pocket will thank you.

Nyarlathotep's picture
John 6IX Breezy - Keep in

John 6IX Breezy - Keep in mind textbooks update because information updates.

Luckily for me, differential equations haven't changed much between say edition 6 and edition 8 of a textbook.

message me a list and I'll see what I can do.

MCD's picture
Seriously??

Seriously??

321_blastoff's picture
If viruses are none living,

If viruses are none living, how can something that's not alive cause so much harm?

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Try putting a drop of cyanide

Try putting a drop of cyanide in your breakfast lol. (jk don't do that).

Greensnake's picture
John 61X Breezy:

John 61X Breezy:

Whether viruses are alive or not depends on how life is defined. Defining life is notoriously difficult and takes one into shades of gray.

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Sure, yet definitions do

Sure, yet definitions do exist. Regardless, the punchline of my comment is that Mykcob4 is confusing viruses with bacteria, and everything in between. Consider his concluding sentence. You can't use antibiotics against viruses.

Greensnake's picture
John 61X Breezy:

John 61X Breezy:

So, what's the point of this side issue? The best argument against Intelligent Design is to simply point out (as I have now done to some extent) that life is full of silly, awkward design that screams out "evolution!"

John 6IX Breezy's picture
Good point, I agree, I think

Good point, I agree, I think our bones are badly designed, they should be made of titanium. Oh and our feet too, I get tired of walking all the time. An all knowing god should of just given us wheels. The fact that birds have wings and we don't shows the designer has a clear bias for birds.

Greensnake's picture
John 61X Breezy:

John 61X Breezy:

Wheels would be biologically difficult for carbon-based cellular life, and titanium bones might present insuperable difficulties for growth. Perhaps in another universe we might be so designed. The real problem is that in this universe we find "design" that would embarrass any competent engineer, a clumsy, odd kind of design with unnecessary inefficiencies and presumed histories that scream "evolution." For the theologian there isn't much intelligent design if everything is the random result of evolution turned loose.

MCD's picture
"...shows the designer has a

"...shows the designer has a clear bias for birds." What designer are you referring to?

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