What would it take for you become an atheist?

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Benjboi's picture
OP, love the question. 'What

OP, love the question. 'What would it take for you to become an atheist?' - Wow that's got me thinking, I don't know is the answer. I suppose that's an even harder question than asking an atheist 'What would it take for you to become religious' because the simple answer there is for god to show itself and reveal in way beyond casual interpretation which particular religious way is the real one. I don't believe there is any one thing you could say or do that could convince me as to the definite non existence of God. The nature of God, if indeed it exists, is a point of massive discussion and one I'm quite happy to admit is a fluid concept in my mind but the total rejection of the possibility of God, I don't think so.

I would say this though Burnyourbible, your passion to develop a better world through the destruction of religion is evident but religion does have redeeming features, look at the 2 overriding laws of Christianity, love god, love your neighbour. These are not terrible things, they're lovely things. It's people that bend religion into something ugly. Don't make the mistake of believing that just because Atheism doesn't engage in formal indoctrination or places itself on a pedestal it cannot be used by the b*st*rds amongst us to enforce their own warped paradigm.

mykcob4's picture
@Benjboi

@Benjboi
You believe in a god because there is some good? That is absurd. Hitler restored the German economy but I wouldn't have endorsed him.
No, the fact is that either there is a god or not. There is no proof of a god whatsoever. Read what I wrote on this thread about hollow answers.

Benjboi's picture
Mykcob4 - sorry could you

Mykcob4 - sorry could you point to the part where I said I believed in God because there's some good? You're conflating two entirely seperate points I made. I said in my first paragraph, I don't think there's anything you could say that would convince me there isn't a God. I offered no rational or irrational reason for my belief (in fact the very word belief implies a lack of corroborating evidence, if it had corroboration i'd call it fact not belief)

My second paragraph I was talking about burnthebible and his early post about religion being inherently evil and his desire to create a world without religion so that we can all live by what's morally right. I was saying that he shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that just because atheism doesn't seek to indoctrinate or stifle freedom of speech it doesn't mean it can't be used by evil men to commit wicked acts. After all Christianity has a majority of good things in its teachings, it's still been used as a tool for wickedness for 2000 years.

mykcob4's picture
You stated that atheists need

You stated that atheists need to prove that there is no god, that they share an obligation of proof. That is NOT the case. Atheist didn't make up a god and have no obligation to disprove what has never been proven.
You also stated there is a great deal of good that has come from the belief in a god. I just pointed out the obvious, that that isn't a valid reason for believing in a god.
Your profile states your status. If you want to be ambiguous about your belief then I advise you to change your status, however that would also mean you'd have to lie.

Benjboi's picture
Again you're

Again you're misrepresentating my words. Never did I say a great deal of good has come from a belief in God. I said there's a great deal of good in the Bible and yet it's manipulated by wicked men to do wicked things.

And once again I'm not saying that you have to prove your beliefs every hour of every day or even have any obligation of proof but if you engage in discussion then you are expected to prove your position. This is a simple fact of the act of debating and would be no less true if you were debating your political preferences or the impact of climate change.

And once again you finish on a slur. The worst part is you're attacking someone on your side of the argument. What's that old saying about when you can no longer recognise friend from foe?

mykcob4's picture
No Benjboi it isn't that

No Benjboi it isn't that simple. You don't have to prove things even if you are debating.
Example:
Person A) "God is real"
Person B) I don't believe you.
That is a simple debate and a basic illustration of debates that are on this forum. Person A has a clear responsibility to prove their claim. Person B has already proven there claim by virtue of not believing person A. Person B doesn't have to state why he/she doesn't believe person A, especially given the fact that Person A has not proven what they have claimed.
This is what MOST non-atheist do on this forum.
"God is real, now you atheists prove that I am wrong."

Benjboi's picture
Yes you do a debate is

Yes you do a debate is defined as

'a formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote'

Argument in this sense means 'a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory'

What you've described is an expression of belief, there is no need for either side to get involved beyond that point. If person A decides to engage further and person B says 'I don't believe you' this is not a debate! It's barely a conversation, what it might be is an uncontested diatribe.

If you engage in a debate as defined by what it actually means in this context then you are obliged to justify your position. Holding your opponent to conditions of engagement that you're not willing to hold yourself to is a vulgar arrogance.

Since we cannot prove nor disprove a God existence it then becomes a pointless debate. Which was my point all along and something you clearly agree with judging by your other comments to me. You've already alluded to the fact that you avoid engaging with none atheists because as a rule they come up with phony arguments which is tantamount to my very point here.

Dumb Ox's picture
If you can logically prove

If you can logically prove the principle of non contradiction is wrong, that from absolutely nothing something can come, that an infinite chain of subordinated (hierarchical) causes is possible, that change does not need a cause, or in short that the classical cosmological argument is wrong I will consider atheism. That or present and argument that shows the impossibility of God.

mykcob4's picture
@ Dumb Ox

@ Dumb Ox
There is sufficient proof that something can and does come from nothing, and there is no proof of a god. DNA proves beyond doubt evolution.
You want us to prove that a god doesn't exist. That is just stupid. You may as well ask us to prove unicorns do not exist.
What has been proven is that there is no need for a god for creation.
You ignore logic and science for a myth, fine that is your right, but it is wrong.

Sinner's picture
Mykcob4- I think science and

Mykcob4- I think science and logic are NOT myths, and both contain much truth. The post states "what would it take to make me an atheist". I know Jesus like I know my wife and kids. Many of you demand scientific proof to convert your atheist minds. Wanna turn the tables? Show me scientific proof that life originated from nothing. Prove to me that matter originates from a vacuum. Please convert me to atheism- I'm all ears!

CyberLN's picture
Sinner, you wrote, " Show me

Sinner, you wrote, " Show me scientific proof that life originated from nothing. Prove to me that matter originates from a vacuum. Please convert me to atheism- I'm all ears!"

Perhaps you are simply unaware that how life originated, matter, vacuum, et al, are completely separate items from atheism.

mykcob4's picture
Quit lying Sinner. You don't

Quit lying Sinner. You don't "know" jesus. It is just a name that has been pounded into your head. No atheist wants any proof to "convert". You are mistaken. We have accepted reality, we don't need anything. But when you believers state things that are not true and force your myth on us we DO demand proof that there is a god. I could care less about your god. The only thing that I care about is that you don't force it on me or anyone else.

Sinner's picture
Cyber- true, and it is very

Cyber- true, and it is very easy to claim "we dunno where life and matter came from...but we know it wasn't God!" And then, many atheist throw out the old "prove unicorns don't exist" line, or something similar to relieve themselves of any duty to provide an alternative theory. Identifying problems without solutions is weak. Recognizing life and matter and reality while ignoring the evidence of intelligent design without an alternative is a cop-out as well. Atheist's have devout faith in the philosophy that, basically, everything came from nothing. Prove it, and please convert me! Thanks for your comments, Cyber- I enjoy conversing with you.

mykcob4's picture
Bullshit Sinner!

Bullshit Sinner!
there isn't a shred of evidence that "intelligent design" is real. It is just some cockamamie idea a christian apologist dreamed up.
The unicorn reference is an illustration of the absurdity that you christians request that we prove that there isn't a god. Atheists don't have an obligation to prove anything. We just don't believe your shit.
Atheists don't have a faith, again, that is just a buzz phrase some christian apologist dreamed up. It's call projection and it is a mental disorder.
You said, " Identifying problems without solutions is weak." That is ridiculous! Many problems are "recognized" with no solutions offered.

CyberLN's picture
Sinner,

Sinner,

"Cyber- true, and it is very easy to claim "we dunno where life and matter came from...but we know it wasn't God!" "

Yep, if one doesn't know, one doesn't know, eh?

"And then, many atheist throw out the old "prove unicorns don't exist" line, or something similar to relieve themselves of any duty to provide an alternative theory. "

There's a duty to make stuff up when one doesn't know something? I disagree. I don't know what time it is but I'm gunna say it's 2:30 p.m. Really, what good does it do? There are professionals who work on discovering a lot of the things unknown/not yet understood. I'm not one of them.

"Identifying problems without solutions is weak."

Then I guess I'm weak. Unless you think that I can identify a problem and then call on an expert to solve it is not weak. I do that a lot. You likely do as well.

"Recognizing life and matter and reality while ignoring the evidence of intelligent design without an alternative is a cop-out as well."

One person's evidence is not everyone's evidence. I have read and listened to ID proponents' list of evidence for ID and I simply don't buy it. Not sure how that is a cop out.

"Atheist's have devout faith in the philosophy that, basically, everything came from nothing. Prove it, and convert me!

We do? I have never, ever claimed that everything came from nothing. And you will need to de/convert yourself. I cannot do that for you.

Algebe's picture
@Sinner: "Identifying

@Sinner: "Identifying problems without solutions is weak."

What problems? I'm not inconvenienced at all by the non-existence of Zeus, the Tooth Fairy, Superman, Tinkerbell or Jehovah. Theism is driven by human emotional needs, not by reality. That's the problem.

What evidence of intelligent design? Complexity doesn't imply design. A thunderstorm is a pretty complex thing. Do you think something designs them? Why do we need to conjure up an alternative as if intelligent design is essential to a functioning universe?

Sinner's picture
Mykcob4- you're posting on

Mykcob4- you're posting on the thread, right? Convert me!

mykcob4's picture
I am not in the business of

I am not in the business of converting anyone least of you.

AJ777's picture
Then why did you ask what it

Then why did you ask what it would take to do it? Are you saying the law of non contradiction is false? If as you say atheism is simply a lack of belief then my car is atheist, a Granny Smith Apple is atheist. I think that what you are is agnostic or currently ignorant on the question of whether or not god exists. We should not remain in an ignorant state on such an important question.

Flamencabot's picture
Someone, please, explain this

Someone, please, explain this idiot that cars can't hold beliefs, so they can't lack of them either.

AJ777's picture
But you can hold beliefs so

But you can hold beliefs so you can’t lack them either.

Flamencabot's picture
I can hold SOME beliefs and

I can hold SOME beliefs and lack of SOME different others as well. Just as you can.

You believe in a god, pressumably (I wouldn't bet my head on this :P) you don't believe in other magical entities like Santa Claus or Elves, or other gods/goddesses such as Thor, or Khali, or Aphrodite.

Wow. You can hold the belief in the Christian God, but you lack the belief in everyone else's divine entities. What a little wicked atheist you are!!!

AJ777's picture
To deny a claim is to affirm

To deny a claim is to affirm its opposite. In denying gods existence, you’re affirming his non existence.

CyberLN's picture
Are you get mixed up here,

Are you get mixed up here, AJ777? I, for example, don't *deny* your claim of a god. I don't, however, accept it as true. That's WAY different than saying it's false. I know this can be a tough concept for some folks to wrap their thoughts around but I can say it's not one thing without saying it's the other thing.

AJ777's picture
Maybe you are agnostic and

Maybe you are agnostic and not an atheist. Is there an agnostic Republic?

CyberLN's picture
AJ777, for your edification I

AJ777, for your edification I'll iterate the description of my usage of the words a/theist and a/gnostic. You may find these usages are fairly common.

Theist - Believes god(s) exist
Atheist - Does not believe god(s) exist
Gnostic - Knows god(s) exist
Agnostic - Does not know if god(s) exist

Someone can identify as one who noes not *believe* in any god(s) but says they haven't definitive knowledge about it.

I do not believe in AND I think the non/existence of any god(s) is unknowable.

Got it?

mykcob4's picture
I swear AJ777 you are batshit

I swear AJ777 you are batshit crazy.
Anyone and everyone can have no conviction for just about anything. You go off on unrelated tangents claiming "cars must be atheists" as if that is logical. No, that is just batshit crazy. It illustrates just how desperate you are.
Google dictionary:
be·lief
bəˈlēf/Submit
noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

All people have some "beliefs" but they don't have to and have beliefs about everything. I don't believe in your god. I believe that my mother is a good person.

Are you SO FUCKING STUPID that you think that EVERY-FUCKING-THING is an opposite? My word that is childish. Not believing in gods does not make one an inanimate object.

You talk as if Atheism is a religion....it isn't.
Instead of thinking that atheists think "I BELIEVE there is no god" you should understand that Atheists think "I don't believe in gods". There is a huge difference!

AJ777's picture
So you are ignorant on the

So you are ignorant on the subject of whether or not God exists? What is the difference between your two belief statements? Both deny the existence of God or gods.

CyberLN's picture
Stubborn as...

Stubborn as...

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mykcob4's picture
You fucking moron AJ777

You fucking moron AJ777
They aren't my belief statements dumbass. They are the definition of "beliefe" asshole. I even referenced the source of the definition fucknuts!

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