I'm curious to know whether there are any other gay atheist's out there that were driven to atheism because of the type of prejudice preconceptions that religion so blatantly indoctrinates into it's societies or because it was purely a matter of choice.
I've realized that had it not been for my sexual orientation, I might not have been led to Atheism. It was through my path of self discovery, while trying to give meaning to my existence, that I stumbled upon this radical way of thinking that instantly had me hooked as it answered most the questions that had me baffled for years. Questions like why was I born a homosexual? Why would an all-powerful god curse me with this sort of an existence? Why would a "supreme being" go through all the trouble of creating me this way only to tell me that my existence is a major sin against "him" and that I am damned to the fires of hell once my time came.
In my own opinion, I wish all gay people were Atheists. It sure does take a huge chunk of uncertainty of my conscience when I know that I ain't burning in no hell fire because of who I choose to love!
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And it's stressful as it is coming out of the closet gay, but now I have to come out as atheist too? It's such a hassle when you have to "come out" again for the second time.. Give's new meaning to The Second Coming..
I LOL'd. Yep, you got some kind of raw deal from god, no? Oh well, you just as easily pushed back so good for you. Glad to see you have the grit to be you - out loud.
Cheers :)
It is true that some victims of indoctrination can only come back to reality when something drastic happens to them.
usually an emotional shock.
Like being denied to be happy because of your belief.
The best way is to understand why you lack belief but to get to that position you first have to excape the brainwashing you have been subjected to.
Some escape with an emotional shock and some with other methods.
My method was the love for myself and rebellious nature I was born with.
I always wanted an explanation and hated the concept of doing something because someone else says so.
I wish you to be happy.
This is exactly the reason I became an atheist. After years of self-hate, praying to a god who never answered prayers and realizing I was praying to a god who called for my death, it was time to give up silly beliefs. Once I left religion, I felt so much more at peace, with myself and in general.
I wish all gays would be atheists too. I know it's hard to let go but there's no reason to hold on to fables...especially ones where you get thrown in a fiery hell for all eternity simply because god made you gay.
I came to atheism slowly after trying almost religion out there. After connecting the dots I realized it wasnt any particular doctrine I didn't beige in. It was the existence of a god. Being gay an seeing all of the religious hatred towards the LGBT community didn't start, but certainly hasten my journey. Ive read countless books on atheism now and embrace it as I then any intelligent, reasoning adult should.
I'm queer (an ace dyke) and a Jewish atheist. I don't believe in a supernatural deity but keep up my Jewish practice as a matter of tribal identity and a means of ordering my life. I live in an area of the country (SW Virginia-Appalachia) that is extremely conservative. I've been vilified for being lesbian, being Jewish (I had one person ask me if I had horns!), and told I was going to hell for reading "heathen books" (Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion). The joys just never cease when you're out of the closet, lol. I'm a librarian and work at a place where I can be myself without fear of reprisal but do know that at least one of my coworkers refuses to accept that I'm either queer or atheist. She's a die-hard Christian and can't accept that someone she likes could be anything so pernicious to her.
Ronald, I'm not sure I would classify myself as a militant. I see myself more as a Socratic gadfly whose task is to disturb the comfortable. I especially get snarky when confronted by massive displays of willful ignorance (usually in abundant display at religious institutions in this area). The library at which I work regularly sets up displays of "banned books" and other heinous intellectual material. I've often been heard ranting (loudly) against stealth Christian authors who disguise their books as one thing (a straight-forward mystery, for example) and then hit you over the head with a heavy Christian message a third of the way through the book. (And it's ONLY Christian authors who do this, btw. You don't find authors of other faiths, no matter how zealous, doing this.) I seriously think they-and all other religious novels-ought to have WARNING stickers posted on them. They are nothing but propaganda.
Yes, The Road... sigh.
It's as though if you were to mix god into my morning cereal without my knowing, I'd just magically start to believe. The authors must think they're real subtle, but that kind of secret preaching always stands out to me. Like rock bands who suddenly reveal they are christian... sure-fire way to doom a career.
I used to be a militant anti-theist. All it did was "get my Irish up" and I spent more time being mad than anything else. I knew it was a ruse played by deceitful men upon their neighbors for profit and it really bugged me that people could be that deceitful. Then, it bugged me more that people could be that gullible. It seriously tore at me that someone could look me straight in the eye and seriously claim a belief in a god and all the silly behavior it spawned in them and their fellow believers. My life was reactionary to such stupidity insomuch as I wanted to slap some common sense into people. But, after a few years of this, I realized common sense was anything but common so I let myself off the hook for expecting a certain level of intelligence to dwell equally in all men.
Then I learned that men, fearful of mortality, gladly divested themselves of intelligence where immortality asked them to. They were indoctrinated to surrender logic for faith. This left me aghast, pained by their insecurities and the express knowledge that they would ask me to embrace them as my equal. Not a chance.
Now, I look down my nose at all theists while observing a quiet reserve. I know they have no inner strength of character and as such, I have no use for them beyond the secular needs I have to use them for.
What I won't do, though, is return to anti-theist activities. Theists proved too stupid to be persuaded by logic so I won't make the effort anymore.
I'm trans, and yes it was my gender identity that led to my Atheism. My ovum donor quite literally beat it into my head that god hates faggots to the point that I could no longer spend the energy needed to delude myself into believing. I left the church when she pointed a gun at me and told me to leave or die, and my life has been infinitely better since.
Remember Lyra's story the next time someone asks what is the harm in believing in this garbage. One of the things I fear the most are people who think they know the mind of god; as it justifies any act, no matter how insane.
As I read your words my stomach turns for what you must have endured. This makes you extremely brave to follow your gut on who you are amidst so much hate. I have client whom I thought was openminded and non religious tell me her only problem with sharing bathrooms withs trans person is she doesn't want them to whip out their penis infront of her girls. As she said it I think even she started to realize how stupid that is. I said you know girls bathrooms don't have urinals and trans people are trying to be accepted for who they are and not apt to whip out their privates in public.That more like a sexual pervert. Can't we all just pee in peace?
What a truly appalling story, you have my commiseration for the way you were treated. I'm from the UK, and though it'd be silly to claim there were no prejudice or bigotry here, anyone behaving as this person did towards you would be jailed, and rightly so. Also kudos for having the courage to leave such a bigoted and abusive religion.
Well, i am personally not gay, but I'd like to share a little bit of my history, if it helps. I was raised Christian, in a rural community that allowed for very little exposure to any ideas that might challenge those teachings. When I graduated high school and went off to the "big city" to go to college, I chose to pursue a degree in theatre. Needless to say, I found myself quite thoroughly immersed in ideas that I had never contemplated before, and many of the people I counted as my closest and dearest friends were openly homosexual. This is when I had my turning point, and shed my allegiance to the church, in a large part because of the realization that the teachings of my youth claimed that the loving, compassionate god that I followed had determined that these beautiful souls that surrounded me were damned because of their sexual preferences, and the hateful, intolerant rabble that so often berated and tormented them would be accepted into paradise. I could not overcome the dissonance of that message. I tried to rationalize, to think of the many things in the scriptures that I had always been told I shouldn't take too literally, but that line of thinking only further eroded my ability to cling to my faith. In the end, I decided that any god who would send good people to burn in eternal fire, yet reward vile, malicious people simply because they said they were sorry for being such assholes just before they died, was no god worth worshipping.
I'm aware that there are some Christian churches who accept homosexuality, though I haven't investigated exactly how they reconcile the very specific scriptures prohibiting homosexuality with their faith in the rest of the tenets of the church. It's really a moot point for me anyway, as my faith had been fatally weakened by a number of other questions at the same time. But I wonder at how mightily some believers work to twist the teachings of the church to fit their personal viewpoints. At what point do you have to finally just accept that your ancestors' attempts to invent a fictional supernatural enforcer of your rules for social control are outdated and irrelevant in the modern world, and scrap the entire concept?
Anyway, my point is, you're not alone. Perhaps someday, compassion will win out over ignorance and hatred in us all. Until then, know that there are others, gay, straight, and otherwise, who see that all people deserve respect and love.
I come from a small town in the bible belt and I was one of those evangelical homophobic idiots as a young man. I was a leader among my peers in the christian community and all that. Fortunately, I started dating a very intelligent young woman from a relatively progressive family. She made it clear just how much of a fucking mook I really was. It really turned things around for me. I like to think I would have eventually come to my senses anyway, but who knows.
Here's the story of a kid that hung himself after receiving death threats after being outed. This kid lived about 15 minutes away from my parents house.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/kenneth-weishuhn-gay-iowa-teen-...
One of the things that really bothered me about the evangelical reaction was that they didn't want to acknowledge that it had anything to do with him being targeted because of his sexuality. My own mother was convinced that it was simply the fact that he came from a troubled home. That attitude allowed them all to side step any responsibility they may have had in this tragedy. This was before I became an atheist, and you could say that it paved the way for my departure from the church. Though I was taught that reflection and self examination were cornerstones of the faith, I just wasn't seeing it.
Damnit-another necro-post!!!!!!
LoL
It was a hell of a post by you, JB God's Country! So it wasn't in vain.
I do my best Truett!
While my sexuality and lack of faith are certainly not at odds with each other. I can't say that one or the other was influential on the other. One after all is an exercise for me in using logic, learning, and debate. The other was surely a culmination of nature and nurture. I've been both since I was born too. So I was never driven to Atheism so much as I was not really convinced to stray from the default stance despite attempts to indoctrinate. Surely the fact that scriptures exist that condemn my sexuality might be a small influence, but if anything, it was just a hindrance to those that attempted indoctrination than it was a point of enlightenment or disillusionment. But I admit, I am hardly the typical case in that regard.
It makes zero sense that christians claim to love unconditionally with the heart of Jesus and yet LGBTQ people are demonized for their desires of love. But most of christianity makes no sense to me now. Heres a thought: since the Bible is interpreted so many different ways I say when reading the Bible with an open mind that Jesus was most likely gay too. I thought of making a bumper sticker with a rainbow saying "Jesus was soooo gay! If that offends you I'm more offended." Jesus is constantly talking of the man he loved most, I think it was John. John was often laying his head on Jesus chest. Also when Mary and John were at the cross Jesus tell Mary "woman behold your son. I can totally picture John and Jesus in a loving homosexual relationship.The Bible was written after all eyewitnesses of Jesus were deceased by scribes that often didn't know the language they were writing in. if LGBTQ community was in rule during the time the Bible was written I'm sure wed have a whole different interpretation.
A different interpretation indeed.
Paul (nee Saul) resurrected the story of the long dead (150 years) story of the Jesus of Nazarene (Yeishua ha-Notzri) cult because Paul was, by all evidence, gay. Yahweh, the god of Paul's time, did not accept gay men into heaven and instead condemned them to the h-e-double-hockysticks of heated fame. He wrote of himself during this time condemning himself frequently because his "member would not cooperate", and was a renown misogynist telling all his male friends to renounce women. But, from the Notzrim cult still existing in diaspora during his time he learned of this benevolent god that the Yeishua (stoned by the Jews as a heretic) promoted 150 years prior. He learned that he could be gay and still be loved by this new god. So, he became the main proponent of this god and the rest is history. Succeeding biblical writings (Leviticus 20-13) would yet again (posthumously) condemn his sexual persuasion to death because it was "detestable".
So, we have a long dead story of a benevolent god resurrected by a troubled gay man seeking resolve for his theologically condemned sexual persuasion. The story got some traction (right time/place) and other cult members joined in the effort to promote the new benevolent god (biblical pseudepigrapha - Peter, Matthew, and Mark primarily). And, so began the humble beginnings of the best selling story of all time. The rest of it is decidedly more pseudepigrapha. It did not work out too well for the gay community at large.
This is a curious read by a gay man about his scholarly research of the bible's veracity, and from which I detail some of my inclusions (suggested only, of course) above. I enjoy referring to it frequently.
http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm
Here and queer! I had always questioned my faith but the final nail it the coffin of my Christianity was when i discovered my own pansexuality.
Good for you:)
Welcome to the real world!
Glad you seeing through the BS of religion
I think is just more likely that a gay person would be atheist over Christian... it's just like the Klan would have relatively few black members. The first logical question would be... why did god create me this way just to condemn me? But then naturally, one would move past that issue and start looking at other illogical aspects of the bible. And when you start digging into that, its just a gift of barbarism, idiocy and fear that keeps on giving. Christians are only good at mouthing the words, I'd say 85% don't really believe or only believe out of fear of hell (like a battered spouse). They like church for the social aspect, the gossip, the picnics etc. While they mouth the word compassion, know that it doesn't apply to you or anyone else that might offend their sensibilities. It's all one big pat on their own deluded Christian back.
I started struggling with atheism when I was 10 and about to do my first communion. As a former catholic from a Latin American country it has been hard but after years of trying to make sense of it all I came to the conclusion that any religion and its deity were a scam. It wasn't until I was 13 that I realized I liked way too much my female friends and I was going to an all girls catholic school so I pretty much hid any feeling I had for any one. Flash forward and I am 30 my family knows I am an atheist, Im still deep in the other closet so we will see what happens... Any way I first rationalized the no god thing before realizing I liked girls, and to be honest there was no connection that I can see between the two.
I'm not gay myself, but as I have pondered the same thing about women, I have always wondered why gay people even belong to religions that demonize them.
I was once on the radio interviewing a male Rastafarian from Jamaica and he started talking about how Jamaica has the reputation of hating gays so much that people would actually harm them or kill them. Then he went on to say that Jamaicans are even worse when it comes to people who don't believe in God.
I listened to him quietly and then when he finished, I paused for a moment, and then responded quite mater-of-factly, "well I'm gay, and I'm an atheist. But we like to refer to ourselves as gaytheists.
I've always thought Rastafarian would be more progressive, that's such a disappointment!
Ana, for most of my Latin American friends I'm angry at god, they seem unable to realize I truly don't believe, because I'm the only atheist they've ever met...
It must be really hard to get out of two closets... I wish you the best luck.
First of all, your sexual orientation was exactly why Paul (nee Saul the convert) promoted the god du jour. In his time Yahweh was the Hebrew god-of-gods and condemned homosexuality. Paul, it is strongly suspected by evidence in his writings, was an oppressed homosexual desperate for salvation. He learned of the (current) god through the surviving Notzrim (Nazarene Cult) that promoted a benevolent god that embraced everyone regardless of their sexual orientation. He saw his salvation in their god, adopted it instead of yahweh and began a pilgrimage of promoting it with the help of other Notzrim members. It was only centuries later with the writing of the bible that an unknown contributor writing as Leviticus condemned homosexuality during a period when it was frowned upon. In Paul's time it wasn't. Had Yahweh been a forgiving god he would not have promoted the Nazarene god and we would not have the bible today. So, take some comfort in knowing that the god you sought your own salvation in before turning atheist was indeed accepting of you, or so the story seems to unfold.
http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm
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