Hello Atheist Republic’s pagan rulers, more particularly Armin,
I'm an ex-Muslim, using the pseudonym of Anthony. I've been an atheist for almost 5 years and irreligious for a bit more than that. I have been acting as a devout Muslim in front of my family, friends and society, and never have I ever come out to anyone in real life. I am also gay, and knew that for more than 10 years, and nobody knows about this as well. To hide all of this means that I had to be careful about what I say and do, cautious about my thoughts and behavior and most of all be shallow, secluded and apathetic in terms of love and human bonding. I feel like I have been pushing this schizophrenic life of mine to the extent I have been showing myself as this fake, hypocritical person I used to be, and I am really tired of it. I have lost years of my life and I don’t want to live the rest of it as a person I am not. There hasn’t been a day I haven’t thought about all of this. And the harder part was that I had to keep it all inside of me, no talking about it, not even giving a simple hint about how I really feel. I have kept myself stable throughout all this period but I am afraid I won’t last long.
I live in France now as a PhD candidate, and plan to stay here if I could. I will be sort of financially independent and away from family. So, I think about honestly coming out. Both as an atheist and a gay person. Trouble is, most of the people still around me in France are Muslims. My friends and colleagues, and especially, the three people in charge of my PhD (a French convert, a Pakistani and an Algerian). They have known me as a Muslim for more than a year and, just coming out all of a sudden would/might be shocking to them. I have never heard them talk about religion except in rare cases, and they generally get along with their fellow colleagues (who are generally irreligious and prefer not talking about their religious affiliation or lack thereof). I find them relatively accepting to others. But I feel they might treat me differently because I have de-converted out of their religion and they have some authority over my future. I want to avoid at any cost the case of me taking legal actions against them and things getting out of control, because I don’t want to make a mess. All I want is just be out of the closet. I know it’s not going to turn out nice and easy, what will happen, what people will think of me…some family members or friends might abandon me. I get all that and I can handle it. What concerns me essentially is whether I am going to be safe or not, whether my future will suddenly collapse or not. I am willing to take the risk, but first, I have to know what risk I am taking.
Should I do it? What should I do exactly? What should I avoid? Can I get in touch with people who might help me, directly or indirectly, or enlighten me about how this is possible and what are my rights and responsibilities? People who are living in France and probably know about the matter?
There is no need to answer these questions and any piece of advice is really appreciated.
Thank you very much for your consideration and your awesome job at the Atheist Republic!
May the Force be with you…
Issam,
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Issam-You are in jeopardy. In Islam the penalty for homosexuality is cutting off your penis. The penalty for leaving the faith is almost as disagreeable---DEATH. Beware of the consequences of defying Allah. Your disobedience will prevent you from entering the kingdom of heaven and enjoying 72 or 73 virgins. Worse you will be condemned to hell in fire and elephant dung for eternity. Issam-just kidding ( a little)about your predicament. I know you are serious about "my coming out" but I couldn't resist joking about how absurd Islam and all religion is "in their absurd, horrible, inhuman and ridiculous beliefs and practices. It seems you really know what is right and that is being who you are. "May the Force be with you"
You had me for a second..
Welcome to the forum, unfortunately I'm not from France thus I know no body there.
Though I am pretty sure there are atheistic groups in France that can give you best advice.(even legal)
Search for them on the internet, should be your first priority.
Secondly i would suggest you do not go public until you are solid on the ground.
Patience is a virtue, they say, in this case it is a necessary evil.
I would rather wait till I did not depend on any Muslim nut case in anyway before going public.
(sorry for Muslims here, but i consider Christians even more crazy then you, if that helps :) )
"Should I do it? "
Definitely but make sure it is the right time.
"What should I do exactly? "
Live your life like you want it to be, do not let people disturb what you wish with their arrogant intrusion.
And most of all accept the fact that most people are indeed ignorant and lack the rebellious nature that you have to use basic common sens.
Most people are lazy and sheep like that follow the flow, so keep that in mind when you see that everyone disagrees with you.
"What should I avoid?"
Avoid fanatics, both on Muslim/Christians/atheist side.
Avoid talking too much to people you do not need to.
Avoid not being prepared for the consequences of your actions. Thus try to predict possible outcomes. It helps a lot to soften the blow sometimes and keep you focused.
Avoid being too optimistic(which seems not a problem in your case).
The force is with me already :)
Just need to find a way to make money off it :P
I'll be sure to take your advice. Thank you Jeff.
Without coming out, I can't really live my life the way I want. I can't date, I can't go to pubs/bars, I can't say no to some nonsense I don't approve of. In a sense, it's hard to live my life the way I want it to be.
I won't be outspoken much about my atheism, at least for the first few years. Way less so with my anti-theism, and I'll always be avoiding bat shit crazy people of course.
If you have the Force, start a church. It's easier to get money out of it.. :)
welcome,
"In a sense, it's hard to live my life the way I want it to be."
Yes for now you need to have patience.
Time passes very quickly trust me, you won't see it flying at school
Find a hobby and you won't have time to think about religion for the time being.
After you are independent then live as you wish.
Jeff-Why when anyone bears their soul about their predicament with their "coming out" atheist--do you need to make a list of "things" they need to do. It is not necessary for me to repeat your post but you go on and on and on and on..Do this do that-do that avoid this avoid that-on and on and on- Jeff you sound like Dr. Phil or Dr. Oz. Jeff -read back you post- Jeff your advise is condescending. I suspect Issaam is an adult (and a smart wise one) and your obvious "advise" is insulting. " This is what you said. I am embarrassed for you.
WHAT SHOULD I AVOID
AVOID FANATICS, BOTH ON MUSLUM/CHRISTIANS/ATHEISTS ASIDE
AVOID TALKING TOO MUCH TO PEOPLE YOU DO NOT NEED TO
AVOID NOT BEING PREPAREDFOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF YOU ACTIONS. TRY TO PREDICT POSSIBLE OUTCOMES.IT HELPS A LOT TO SOFTEN THE BLOW SOMETIMES AND KEEP YOU FOCUSED
AVOID BEING TOO OPTIMITISTIC(....
I left out the rest of your post and it is equally childlike and insulting. You sound like a father lecturing his 10 year old son. Or like Dr. Phil.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH DR.JEFF-YOUR ADVISE IS SO PROUFOUNDLY ENLIGHTENING
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Public information announcement:
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"fred,k" is actually the infamous troll of the Atheist Republic forum.
Generally referred to as "Kenny", has been banned many times under different names.
Previously known aliases include: "Kenny Schweiger", "Kenny", "myself", "alleycat", "richardd", "Christopher", "marken", "punkin", "amber", "Simon".
Claims to be an atheist. But he has a fondness for using "sarcasm", even though no one ever gets his sarcasm and he has been told this many times, he keeps posting such deceiving comments.
He seems obsessed with religions, creationists and the stupidity of Fox News, Bill O'Reilly, Joel Osteen, Ted Cruz, Sean Hannity, Donald Trump, Vanna White, Sarah Palin, etc.
Pragmatic-At least when you announce a Public Information announcement you could be creative and change it around a little. It does show your lack of creativity by repeating the same bull crap over and over again. I was going to stop making fun of your half face but you won't leave me alone. Your half face is half way appealing in a funny kind of way. As for my post about Dr. Jeff---Read his advise to Issam and if you can't admit it isn't "insulting to Issaaam and degrading I will stop making fun of your half face. Seriously read what I "wrote" about Jeffs stupid response to Issaam. Pragmatic-forget it is me------be objective
I did read your response.
It's a blunt personal attack, that adds confusion and doesn't contribute anything.
That's why I felt I should inform people in the thread, especially the OP, about who you are.
As I said earlier. I can't ban you, and even if you are banned you just come back, so as long as you keep spamming and confusing people with your "sarcasm", I'll keep posting information about you.
If you don't spam and don't confuse people with your "funny jokes", I'll be glad to stop informing people about who you are.
This is one of those times when someone criticizes so much that he actually says nothing useful..
(Talking about your response to Jeff, Fred)
IssammAA- If you can't "see" Jeff's response to your predicament as "if you were a 10 year old boy and he the great knowing "father". I feel sorry for you. As an intelligent, enlightened atheist receiving such obvious "advise" should have been an insult to your intelligence. Jeff by lecturing you in such a demeaning way was really ridiculing you. As if you couldn't figure out what you should do on your own. For a smart person you sound like a child.
.
Ok, Fred. Thank you for exploring my intelligence and suggesting how I should behave. I'm not gonna dig more into it. So, cheers!
Hi Issam and welcome.
I hear your problems and your isolation.
As a retired scientist, I understand the power that Ph.D. advisors have over their students. Therefore I strongly advise you not to do anything that would allow them to make your life difficult or that could cause them to stop you from getting your degree. Once you have your Ph.D. your options will improve considerably.
It's kinda distressful for me to think that I'll have to drag this another three years or more..
That is understandable.
But compare that distress to the distress you might feel if you come out and they make your life a living hell for the next 3 years. Better to be patient and a little miserable than to be really really miserable.
Perhaps you can spend the time to make small careful inquires, to try to get a sense of their views? Just be smart about it, so they don't suspect anything. It could be possible that they themselves are open minded and perhaps even atheists? But they are afraid to come out as well?
IssammAA- Get over "it". Be a man-stop whinning. Be a little boy and take Jeff"s advise.
It seems rather perverse that 'we' allow Kenny to harasses users who are potentially risking their lives to post here.
Does it really satisfy your dark soul to just log in and troll about other people serious lives, or is it that you find my case special for your taste?
Nyarlathotep. I really have concern and empathy for Isaam's predicament. But telling him how to cope by giving him obvious advise is treating him like a child. "Telling" him what he already knows dehumanizes him and insults his intelligence.
Yes, I agree Kenny.
Your tasteless jokes is much better approach!
I'm here to ask for advice (with a C) and I'm not gonna shame anyone who responds to me. I appreciate any response even if it's not gonna solve my problem, because I know that people don't know exactly all aspects of the situation. So, in the end, it'll be up to me after I collect all pieces of advice (with a C again) from the people who had the will to help.
Thank you for your concern about my intelligence, Fred, but I'm not insulted.
And what is with you and intelligence? are you sapiosexual in some sort? :)