Hi there all, I'm an ex pentecostal 20 years in the making but now an atheist, well at least someone who doesn't believe in religion in any shape or form.
I still have this underlying feeling that we are connected to some life force or energy not necessarily a thinking being more an energy source that we're all connected to????? What do you think?
As for christianity I've given up on that and the bible more into science now, Carl Sagon, Steven Hawkins and so on.
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Hello Frontslider.
Congratulations on freeing your self from mind-controling spirit stifling superstitious nonsense.
About ''connection'' you feel, check out this on atheist ''spirituality''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVfykwiYE3s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rr-jyg0MyI
Just don't get carried away with all the new age BS. Religious people often say/ask what would substitute-as if we'd loose something. As a life long atheist,like many others,I never felt I'm missing something.
One could say that I don't know 'couse I never had it, but then there are ex-believers saying how liberating,positive,eye opening, life changing experience that is-when you get rid of superstitious wishful thinking.
Pentecostal? Is that ''speaking in tongues''? Are you from some ''bible belt'' place? Out of closet?
Hi Samson,
Ye pentecostal is speaking in tongues that's what drew me in in the first place. I am so glad that I have shaken off the rediculous superstitious religious beliefs that had me blind for so many years and as hard as it was to leave the church I was attending it was the best thing I ever did. I'm from Austratlia and got caught up with this cult when I was 19 left when I was 38. Thanks for the link very true the great Carl Sagon hit the nail on the head. Are there atheist meeting places where you live, where are you from? I don't know of any here?
You are lucky to be from Australia where female atheist can be a prime minister.American culture is terrible a specialy in the south in a small town (bible belt) where many think they are the only atheist & stay in closet.
Are you in some small community? 'Couse in Australia shouldn't be a problem finding other non-believers. I'm from small EU country/Slovenia.1h drive to Austria or Italy. Religion is irrelevant /non-issue for overwhelming majority. Very much like in Skandinavian states or central-northen EU. We still have churches on almost every hill top, but Those who still go to church are maybe some older people or from rural parts.
Ones I was out with friends,someone told us about this guy from school, that started to go to church every sunday. We were all surprised & reaction was like ''What happened? What's wrong with him?'' I'm glad to live in such culture, where religion is concidered out dated /relic, backward, thing of the past.
So there's no need for meetings. When I heard the term ''movement'' & ''activism'' the first time, I thot what nonsense is that. ( like herding cats) Where I come from, everybody is atheist. All sorts of people with different worldviews,opposing ideologies....makes no sense to from a club based on non-belief.
But I see now, that places like America need such organisations. But they must have only one goal.Fighting misconception & demonisation,to change culture /outing campaign, secular state...& nothing else. I see fresh non-believers who recently realised that atheist doesn't equal communist & don't eat babies, but then are surprised to find out there are anti-abortion,homophob,racist atheists, etc,etc.
From one misconception to another. That atheist are all rational,educated,liberal,humanists.
So you are declared /out of closet? Good place to start meeting ppl. is on line.It shouldn't be a problem in Australia anyway.
Greetings Frontslider,
As an atheist at reading the various sources of human classics I have found that, since no god is good, the human life form is all we got. I am at the point of mind where I understand how some humans need the idea of a god-thing, a placebo so to say, as any and all scurry about
Hi aMan,
Religion and their religious books, as far as I'm concerned, were written for one reason and one reason only and that was to control people and it worked and has continued to work for centuries. Do atheists have any belief system? I still have my basic moral code but has that come from my years in religion or would I have had it anyway? Who knows all hypothetical now I guess? Would a world of atheists been one of total chaos or would it have had order and control? If religion was able to control human nature the way it did leaving it open for human society to flourish in science the way it did then was it so bad? Humans by nature are savage and we have evolved a lot but would we have evolved to the level we have without the contol of religion on society? Just something I've been thinking about for a while.
Hey Frontslider,
You are surprising me. Like you're slipping back...or even not being quite genuine. (not intentionaly fake I hope) ''Do atheists have any belief system?''......Atheist would not ask such question ! Person knows exactely what he beliefs. Those who don't know what atheism means - ask, as if it is some kind of a club to join.
Qustions about the origin of your moral code....what would world with no religion look like....where would humanity be today with out religion.......I'm on a verge to blow you off as a dishonest fake.
Since you were deep in, most of your life & just recently freed from superstition....I guess You can still strugle with some ideas. With those feelings of connection with some life force....you are in danger to subcome to all kinds of new age BS.
I'm not sure what to make of you. I can answer your questions with confidence and I would gladly explain it to any theist also.
Hi Samson,
I am very genuine, as someone who left religion I still hold onto some of the values it taught me but then I thought that Australia being a Christian based country those ideals are engrossed into its culture. So then I thought how far back can I go when religion didn't influence our culture and you would have to go very far.
So we as a species have been influenced by religion for centuries so to imagine a society with no religious influence is very hard. Even where you come from you say that everyone is atheist but its history was steeped in religion so it's laws and values were based on that history.
Am I an atheist? Yes I am I don't believe in the bible or any of the religions of the world, we live we die and that's the end of it but there is still a part of me that feels there may be more, what that is I'm not sure. Some of the new age stuff interests me how far I'll go into it if any I'm not sure.
So what I was trying to express in my last posting was that if religion was invented to control humans and their nature the question that remains is why was it required? Was it necessary to do it? Was the human species wild and barbaric and a way to control it was to invent religion, I'm particularly thinking of the bible, the torah, the Koran the 3 main religions of the world. If these books were written to control people then did it serve its purpose?
Do I believe in the books? Not at all. These books have influenced us for a long time so that's why I ask what would it have been like if they had not been written and they weren't used to control people.
If the human species didn't have that influence what would world history have been like and how would we have evolved as a society with regards to science?
You're right in Australia it's easy being an atheist no one really cares but to say that this is not a christian based society would be wrong. So there you go hope that explains a little of where I'm coming from.
Hey Frontslider
I understood your questions and I wasn't offended by them (by themselves) It would be perfectly Ok if a theist would ask all that,but coming from an atheist-was what rattled me.
So, let's start: ''Do atheists have any belief system?''
This is the thing-since you are an atheist-I'd say ''What do you mean?''Only believers asks such question.They often say-atheist believe in nothing or/and ask- What DO you believe. To atheist this sound so strange/nonsensical.....and now I'm in the same position as talking to a theist.(american christian who knows nothing about atheism) I believe in everything you do,except god.
Now,let me ask you: What is YOUR belif system? After all,You are an atheist,aren't you.What are you asking here? It's not a club,ideology,worldview...which you find interesting,want to join & ask about it. It means only non-belief in god- there's no atheist system.
Can have many other beliefs and can be different /individual.You are an atheist, but I have to explain it to you what atheism means,so I can answer you??? Do you see the paradox? You say you are X-ask what is X system-which shows you don't know what X is.
I've seen many christian saying ''I use ti be an atheist'' but when they tell their conversion story,it becomes clear they were never realy atheist.And most of them are not lying.They just don't know exactely
''I still have my basic moral code but has that come from my years in religion or would I have had it anyway?
Atheist knows !!! Even christiaans say that atheist can be moral.Without the bible,it's just that god gave as all. Non-believers know that it doesn't come from non-existing source. It's in us.From experience,empathy,it changes through time,animals also have morality...go to iron chariots site for detailed explenation. (on every counter apologetic argument) talkorigin.com is also good.More on evolution/creation)
This is also very strange for atheist-not to know.It can't come from god If there isn't any. It's innate ! Maybe you think it comes from religious teachings. Golden rule is universal. There's no culture in the world where killing & stiling is Ok.
As I said, the reason religion started was not to control people. It was to explain the unknown.My country is also ''christian'' as EU and I don't have problem with ''cultural christianity'' I love christmass & we still paint eggs for easter.
So while Australia is a christian nation but civil socity is based & regulated by Anglo-saxon law. You could say that it also comes from christian values, but apart from universal golden rule (killing,stealing) which are the same for all humanity, 10 commandaments go against democratic principles. ''You shell have no gods before me'' is against freedom of speach and freedom of religion. I think first 4 are all about honoring/worshiping Yahweh. ''Shell not covet'' is impossible,unrealistic. It's human condition to want. And it's a thot crime (totalitarian)
Doctrines are not inclusive.Even different denominations are divisive.
Greetings F'slider,
for me 'Atheism' means everything is manmade, or for PC purposes, human made. In a reply to you it was mentioned how your sincerity may be in doubt, viewed in askance. Well, IMHO, that reservation of you is connected to your use of the idea\word of "belief". You seem to hold that it still has only a theological value.
As far as I can tell that word- believe, conveys an idea that only a human an know. Do you know what is 'up', well, in order to go on you must believe that what is up is up, that is a human only value. In time, or better still- in human time, the theologians have long since claimed that word- believe, as if it is only theirs.
''Would a world of atheists been one of total chaos or would it have had order and control? ''
I'm sory to say, but again, all these questions are like coming from a theist who doesn't understand atheism, or-if it is from atheist-sounds like christian pretending just to engage. With subtle insuniations (what atheists belief,where morality comes from,maybe humanity is better of with religion)
Asking what would world of atheist be......you could as well said Stalin tried.
Communism/Stalin were against religion-therefore atheistic by default. But it was ideology doing....non-belief is not an ideology,worldview...just NO god. You can be liberal,conservative,anti-communist,nazi..etc,etc.
The world would defenately be better without religion. It does more harm,it's divisive & whatever good,can be done without it. But i would never force it. People should believe whatever they want.It can't be eradicated & it would be wrong to try it. ( You can't prohibit stupid )
Hopefuly it will die off by it slef,as antient superstition.So that just some pockets of crackpots here & there would remain.
There is no atheistic regime & never was (Stalin,Mao,Polpot were against religion-it was a rival to their tweested ideology) It has nothing to do with secular humanism or Something like Scandinavian countries & some EU central-north.(Sweden 85% atheist) Japan over 90% )
Total chaos? No order?
''Religion and their religious books were written for one reason and one reason only and that was to control people''
4-th century Rome from Constantine on,after politheism Romans switched to monotheism and find a great political strategical tool - to control sheep.Latter on spread allover Europe gaining power,influence,land,wealth.throughout medieval period every corrupt Pope,bishop or some degenerate cardinal were burning,changing,forging the scripture......BUT that was not the reason for religion to start.
Anthropology reveals that early humans as hunter gatherers with developing language-observing the world around started interpreting phenomenons-attaching agencies.
''would we have evolved to the level we have without the contol of religion on society?
Church was notoriously blocking progress and it still does today. To control society, the rule of law is needed, which comes with first civilizations....many of them thousands of years older then bible
Hi there Samson,
Thanks for your comments it has had me thinking a lot and I attended my first atheist meeting in Melbourne yesterday and told them about our conversation. It started a debate there which was great as it helped me get things clear in my mind, the conclusion was that the world would have been better off without religion.
We as a species had an innate ability for empathy and compassion and we didn't need religion to generate it. Powerful men needed to control the masses and the invention of a fictional god head was the best way to achieve this. I've been given the names of some books to read that will give me a greater insight into this, so pretty much all that you said, 20 years of born again christianity pays it toll I guess?
Hey Frontslider
I'm sory I came out so strongly ''attacking'' you. I've had some lengthy discussions with american christians. Dancing around issues,jumping through hoops,with mental gymnastics, acknowledging point by point. At times when He was cornered, I left some room to get out of corner, so we could move to the next point & build constructive argument.Then after days of exchange, jumps back to starting point, totaly dishonest,as if nothing happened.
The other thing is ''I use to be an atheist'' stories. Some are real,some are unintentionally wrong, but there are some despicably dishonest, like Lee Strobel in his book.
I guess if someone was deeply religious for number of years & then losses belief in supernatural,can be a non-believer & still having miscoceptions,misunderstanding. So,I'm glad you found this Melbourne group where you can share ideas, ask questions, interact.
Hello Yarilo, I don't think ''spiritual but not religious'' always means not believing in supernatural. There are many who don't go to scurch and even say how they hate religion, but they believe in some forme of creator/god. You should definitely ask,what they mean by that.