Religious people will use the sky, the stars, the universe, the trees, the way things are made, d.n.a., as proof that there is a "God." Meanwhile, we know that there is not one shred of scientific evidence, or physical proof that any "God" ever existed. Additionally, nothing has shown it's presence in thousands of years. All the above metioned examples of "God" are simply due to nature, science, and biology. If you plant something in the dirt, give it sun light, oxygen, and water, something will grow. These are ALL examples of nature, science, and biology. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOD. People will say, well, look at how presise everything is made...look at D.N.A., the human eyeball, etc. There HAD to be a "divine creator." "This could not have taken place by chance. There had to be a purpose." Scientists are finding amazing things going on in the universe everyday...photographs are posted daily in the paper. If a meteor the size of a school bus, traveling at 7 times the speed of light, weighing 18 tons can crash into the earth, as it did about 1 year ago in Russia, then why couldn't these other amazing things happen "by chance? What purpose could there possibly be for that? Did "God" just decide to throw a rock...and a very big one at that ? It happened "by chance...just as the other amazing things in the universe have happened. It is nothing that we can possibly comprehend... scientists are piling up evidence daily...they are on the cusp of figuring out what DID happen for real at the begining of time...and it has nothing to do with any "God", or biblical "fairy tales." But no matter how much proof, logic, or common sense anyone can produce, if someone makes up their mind to believe something, they are going to believe it. So in concluding, if you can show proof to someone regarding ANYTHING, and that person still refuses to acknowledge it...who is kidding whom...they are only fooling themselves. Reality
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And so it has been since man conjured up the 1st gods. Same shit, different flies.
“And so it has been since man conjured up the 1st gods.”
This statement is false as it has not been so since the very start. There was no theology at that time to “conjure gods up”. The gods were considered normal people (the ruling elite) that later were said to have climbed ladders to the sky, thus creating the heavenly gods of theology… to whom the original poster refers to.
The roots of religion is a very important subject, difficult to deal with and for that reason most atheist have a very distorted opinion regarding the appearance of the gods' idea.
The earthly, flesh and blood gods, were transformed into heavenly beings and then those heavenly beings were reduced to one:
https://www.academia.edu/7189733/_Amen_..._the_creation_of_the_Creator
1) make unusual claim
2) cite your own social media page
3) profit!
“1) make unusual claim
2) cite your own social media page
3) profit!”
I will only profit if my social media page persuades you that the claim is right and well supported by textual evidence.
You could blame me only for unsupported theological claims. You have to study an atheist theory before dismissing it.
Look, we all know the ignorance of man. His resulting incapacity to explain his world was the fuel for conjuring up stuff. This "stuff" included gods. Don't get all intelligent on this because no intelligence was driving the original motivation to create gods. You speak in today's terms about yesterdays events. Don't. Relative to the time and sentience of the people, attributing importance to things that gave them peace of mind worked for them and gave them comfort. But, they didn't just walk across the ground one day enmasse and magically receive revelation. One man started it all. He walked upright and understood what the people wanted. He saw he could utilize his own gray matter (or pink, if you prefer) to acquire certain advantages for himself (or perhaps the population if an altruist) by manipulative methods of persuasion. We all know this to be true. There was an example of this one man residing in each of the various tribes of the time. We all know this. We didn't just say, hey, we're not going to believe this nonsense and threw daggers over our figurative shoulders at history's embarrassingly primitive beginnings for the sheer fun of it. We read about our past, our religions, we understood their origins and period significance and the entire universe as people explained it to themselves at the time(s), and brought it current with our own.
After all that is said and contemplated...
Man (inarguably) conjured up all things we now describe as supernatural from gods, ghosts, gremlins, ghouls, gargoyles, and all manner of beings alive and well in the shadow world of his mind. Then he made up stories surrounding them to animate them, wrote them down to give them literary prodigy ensuring their survival across the generations, and then (unknowingly) incite the masses to argue their very truths when the time of man's intellect was capable of challenging and defeating his own fears, ascribing backwards an evil notoriety - in no benevolent manner - to men who would promote such fears into the masses for the purpose of personal gain. The greatest evidence of this is the bible. Lesser examples are scattered across the world's cultures coloring their own histories with myths. Hollywood could not have survived without them.
And, yes, I acknowledge the importance of the various religions throughout man's time-line and how it played very important roles in his development. I just don't happen to have a use for it. People who subscribe to religious doctrine do so because it gives them comfort. Imagine the people throughout the ages who did not need such comfort. They were the first atheists, though the title was unheard of at the time. They were simply not buying this new god-thing they were being handed. They didn't materialize out of thin air in recent history. They've been there all along and probably harboring silent rejection of their ignorant brethren who feared what they were indoctrinated to fear by a manipulating few. Either persuasion were in fear of their lives if they did or didn't "believe". These manipulative few conjured up gods and stories to give them life in the imaginations of people (religions) and a set of rules (sins/consequences) governing adherence to those religions. These manipulative few still abound today.
But...
One man conjured up the first god. Mass ignorance (market economics) and personal greed took care of things from there.
Same OPer, different name...
Mind boggling the stuff people believe and refuse to depart from due to being indoctrinated as children. Face palm moments are common when listening to their drivel.
I am certainly not disagreeing, but using a random catastrophic example of disorder (a meteor crashing into the earth) is certainly very different 'random' than development of a highly complex biological process (plant-growth) or genetic compilation. This is an argument where this is certainly not that.
The bottom line is that these are ALL examples of the power of science, nature, and biology. Tsunamis, volcanic eruptions, tornados, hurricanes, typhoons, earthquakes, etc. are ALL examples of powers of nature, and can happen at random, without any purpose, or without any God to create anything...(although the above mentioned ARE considered "Acts of God"...why does God do these these "acts" that bring nothing but death, destruction, and disease?) They are acts of nature, and science, just as what takes place in the universe, and nothing to do with a God.
They are not powers of science, as science has no ability to bring about acts of nature. Complexity adding processes being compared to complexity reducing processes of nature are not equal.
What the HELL are you talking about? The point is that "God" has nothing to do with any of these things.
Relax, Kenny.
Who's Kenny??? Is that YOU, boobala??
The suggestion that destructive, natural events are proof that complex biological processes are also natural is false. That would be like me saying "Cars being destroyed at the wreckers, reminds me that the Pope in Rome is not responsible for making computers." The argument simply does not follow, that because a meteor falls in Russia, that DNA must have arisen from nature itself. While it may be true, it is not logical construction- it begs the question. Is all I am saying.
Sorry I didn't mean to get you angry. I'm just trying to sort through everything - and am trying to ensure that I am not taking a giant leap in the dark.
I GIVE UP!!!
I love the concept. It's sort of like the idea: would reality exist without our consciousness to observe it. It wouldn't matter much at all and yet it's the only thing that really matters.
There will always be room for god if people want. He will hide in the unknown, ever diminishing, forever. And there will almost always be a personal level of the unknown - felt as fear - where people can apply god, like a balm, on their psyche.
So arguing proof with believers can be an exercise in futility. Actually, it often is.
Yes, you are right. As Neil Degrasse Tyson put it, "God is an ever reseeding pocket of ignorance".
And arguing proof is useless, especially since there is no proof.
But as long as children are getting indoctrinated into ignorance and religions are allowed to abuse human rights and to deny and suppress science and knowledge, we have to try to get them to wake up.
Resisting indoctrination, ignorance, abuse, and suppression is something I will support. However, 'awakenings' are the the realm of the faithful, and best left to them.
That is just phrasing.
The point is that they are not living in reality. They believe that a fantasy man, living in the sky will take them to a place of eternal bliss. They have a filter, shielding them from reality. They are living in a dream world, and they need to wake up.
The stupidity of living in a fantasy to procreate and create more brainwashed bigots, that will continue the same cycle is horrifying. And it will kill billions of people through starvation, thirst, war or deceases.
In other words, they need to wake up...
I've always said that theists need to get a grip on reality, wake up, and just live their lives as well as they can without having to have these ridiculous " superstitions" I now call them... that some "magical, mystical" being exists, keeping them forever living in a " fantasy land" thinking that they are going to some "special place" when their life here ends... it is WANTING to believe that their " soul" something that I still haven't gotten a reasonable explaination of exactly WHAT that is, will " live eternally" and have hope that they wil see, or meet up with, loved ones that have passed. Complete tossing aside of reality, and common sense. It's'a shame that so many have been brainwashed into this...with no end in sight. I believe it is the upbringing, especially of the generation of parents that was born in the 1930's...that have MESSED up their kids with their ridiculous rules. ideas, and traditions...and it has continued for generation, after generation...our parents have F----D us up more than we would like to admit!!
“There will always be room for god if people want.”
That is a false statement. There is God because so desire the clergy, the state and the academy.
“He will hide in the unknown, ever diminishing, forever. And there will almost always be a personal level of the unknown - felt as fear - where people can apply god, like a balm, on their psyche.”
Another false statement.
People have been afraid of gods and later of God himself and not of the unknown and neither gods/God has ever acted as…a balm on their psyche.
“So arguing proof with believers can be an exercise in futility. Actually, it often is.”
That is a true statement!
Only that atheism should aim at the kids of the believers (showing them how absurd, ridiculous and insulting to human intelligence the God idea is), exactly as the clergy and the state do for everybody’s kids.
The clergy, state, and academy are made up of people. And my second statement you say is false, but don't say how. While I am in favor of giving children choice, I'm not in favor acting just as the clergy and state do. There could be another way forward.
"And my second statement you say is false, but don't say how." - My mistake. You do say how, and I see the reason in it: god can not actually be soothing, in your opinion.