All of my life before the last year I had been a Christian who believed in Jesus and the Bible and believed because of that I was going to heaven. I also believed if you didn't believe in these things that you were going to hell.
I have cousins who I grew up with who I used to go to church with who were more rebellious and opened minded then I was and had friends that were atheists who I debated religion with. Many atheists I talked to seemed to have an arrogance or ego about them.
While I've heard people say they feel like Christians or religious people are arrogant or egotistical. Now being an exchristian I'm realizing both sides are arrogant and egotistical. Actually I think most people are. Most people feel that what they believe is the truth or fact when it may not be.
There may not have been (probably wasn't) a creation by a invisible god saying let there be light. But we may not have evolved from monkeys.
To pretend that we know what happened when neither can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt is arrogant and egotistical.
I think most of the world, no matter what anyone believes, needs to get over themselves and what they believe to be fact. Because even scientific facts can change.
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I realize that you have been going through some big changes in your life recently, so maybe now isn't a good time to discuss it, but I'll mention it so maybe you can work through it later when you feel you're on more solid ground:
Among all the non-sense you have probably been told over the years from religious people, I'm guessing you picked up some very bad information about the theory evolution through natural selection based on your statements above. When you feel up for it, you might want to try discarding what you've been told and start over fresh on the subject. I strongly recommend using academic sources. A tip for searching for such information is to put site:*.edu into your search terms on google. For example.
I see from your OP a very general nonspecific statement regarding arrogance. Also, you made a false statement regarding evolution.
A person's arrogance is singular and pertains only to that person, NOT the content of their idealism. For instance, a christian may profess their belief in an arrogant manner which detracts from the message they want to convey. Manner isn't content, nor is idealism of any belief, an emotion.
So you have seen the behavior of a few people and they SEEM to have acted alike. It can't define the ideal that they share in common. Atheism doesn't propagate arrogance. Now, this isn't true of every idealism. Take fascism, it manifests an attitude.
@Neal TRD: "Many atheists I talked to seemed to have an arrogance or ego about them."
If they had that attitude, perhaps it was the result of things that happened to them during their transition from theism to atheism. Some people shrivel up when they're ridiculed or discriminated against. Others grow shells and attitude.
Arguments are not always grounded and in the context of creation there is no grasp on even plausibility at this time. One side invokes the supernatural versus the other side's natural and all manner of dissuasive chatter marginalizes both sides as idiot savants; expertise non-extant.
But, the apologist to his god is no different than the drunk to his wine. Sobriety cannot enter when it isn't invited.
If the above atheist observation of theism is seen as egocentric to a theist, it's time to momentarily wear the shoes of an atheist to understand the view from the vantage point he hails from. He already knows the story of theism because he was, at one time, immersed in it. If he felt at some juncture repulsed by it there has to be a reason, in a most humble moment, based in a simple sobriety that the more defiant theists will not embrace.
Until the theist is ready to entertain his doubts he will counter his opposition with whatever lies at his disposal to grasp. The atheist can only deflect because he has no dog in that race other than an outsider's opinion about the reality of its finish line.
As an ex Christian open to hearing all beliefs compared to my family, friends or anyone who is still Christian,
I feel like someone who is in outer space and standing on the moon and trying to describe what the earth and outer space looks like to someone who has never even seen a picture of the earth from outer space or a globe.
They can't even begin to imagine what I see and trying to explain it to them is an effort in futility.
No one can force someone to stop believing the Earth is flat - until they see the curve of the earth or believe there are billions of galaxies and billions of stars in every Galaxy until the Hubble telescope showed the world pictures of them!
You can't ever properly explain what you see or believe in enough detail especially if it goes against everything that person has ever been taught, learned or accepted.
@Neal the real deal
At one time it was generally accepted that the world was flat. But some observations conflicted with the flat earth concept, and it was replaced by the current model. Neal, you do not need to see a picture of this planet from space to "believe" the earth is round, all you need to do is make your own personal observations and apply careful thinking.
You have a brain, and you are capable of observation. You are also very capable of learning. Start reading non-religious science books. Think for yourself, draw your own conclusions.
I suggest you start with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth
The truth is out there. I will not drag you down that path, but I will gladly direct you towards the sources that give you enough information so you can form your own conclusions.
And maybe that is one difference between this humble author and one who uses religion to further their agenda. I do not speak from a position of authority or demand that you accept what I say. I will gladly offer information, because my desire is that you are better informed and arrive at conclusions all by yourself.
@Neal the real deal
Like many Christians and new atheist you do not understand the Atheist position. There is no "EGO" in asking a Christian to support their magical claims with facts. There is no "EGO" in rejecting Christian claims for a complete lack of evidence.
The only time an atheist has to justify a position is when he or she makes a claim. "God does not exist." "Churches are Evil." etc... And it is not arrogance or Ego to support those assertions with facts.
The only Egotistical people around here are people that believe they have personal contact with the all powerful flying sky daddy that created the universe. And that if they utter a few magical words that all powerful being will intervene in their life and miraculously change something in the real world to benefit them.
If you are going to assert that someone who is an atheist is being egotistical you have to cite what it is they are saying and in what context. Are they actually coming from an atheist position or the position of an anti-theist. Are they supporting their arguments with facts or with personality and Ego "LIKE A PREACHER."
I for one do not really think you know what you are talking about. It takes no Ego at all to be an atheist,. Religion is based on EGO and nothing else.
Right off the bat, I think it would be prudent to point out that religious is not the opposite of atheist. The natural opposite of the former, religious, is non-religious, while the opposite of the latter, atheist, is theist. Religion refers to a system of faith or worship, that system being certain dogma and rituals, and often, but not always, a supreme mystical being usually called a god. Theism on the other hand, is merely belief in a god of some sort where atheism is lack of belief in such beings. Thus, it is possible to be a religious atheist, just as it is possible to a non-religious theist. Both theism and religiousness are positions that are difficult to support or maintain with good critical thinking.
Welcome aboard, Vanessa. Always great to have another rational mind join our ranks. Looking forward to seeing you around the different threads.
@ Vanessa
I think we are going to enjoy having you around on the threads! Welcome Vanessa!
Thank you for the welcome, Old man shouts. I hope so, but it's a fact of reality that none of us are ever going to be everyone's cup of tea and nor should we hope to be. I am a deliberate broken record when it comes to certain misconceptions and misuses of terms that are life-long pet peeves of mine. If only such disagreements and complaints could begin from a clear and correct understanding of who is who, how each part is similar, and how party is different, then perhaps there might be better ground for constructive dialogue that results in true understanding and intelligent progress into the as of yet unknown.
its ok to say "i don't know"
"Most people feel that what they believe is the truth or fact"
atheism is not a belief system...
It is possible that those who are most noticeable for a position are those who are "loud" in some way. Also those who are extreme to social norms. I know from experience also that perception of a person's behavior can certainly be affected by your own perspective - even if you are indifferent to an argument, you can be astonished by someone's fervor etc.
@Neal the real deal: Your statement :
"There may not have been (probably wasn't) a creation by a invisible god saying let there be light. But we may not have evolved from monkeys."
Plenty of believers say we have been made by a god saying let there be light. Which atheists say we have evolved from monkeys?
And.. Welcome, Vanessa!
I do not consider myself "arrogant", but rather "assertive". There is a vast difference between those two terms.
As an atheist I have great confidence that what I accept has great probability. Nothing, absolutely nothing is 100% certain. Not even death.
Yes, definitely yes, science can change. That is one of the great joys in science, that the scientific community never stops exploring, asking the hard questions, and striving to learn more.
Evolution is not just a "theory" that is the current fashion. It is a well researched concept that matches observations, and is supported by other disciplines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CexojNPz2cU
"theory"
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.
"Darwin's theory of evolution"
evolution is a theory sir..
that's its meaning...
You are applying the general term, not "scientific theory" which is:
" A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."
I was talking science, and the definition of a "scientific theory" was being applied.
ohh..right..my bad
my apologies sir..
Never a problem Qu@si. Unfortunately you fell into the same assumption that many theists apply, that this one word "theory" has just one application and definition.
For the most part, I have answers which work for myself, to explain most of what life is about, where it started, why religions exist in the first place, where morals come from, what happens after we die, etc. If anybody is interested in my beliefs, I'd be glad to share them. But really, it makes no difference what they think about my beliefs. They are MY beliefs.
I think believing in fairy tales is silly. But that's just MPO. I guess some people would say I was being arrogant, but whatever. You can't do anything without offending somebody anyway.