The Thoughts of a Conservative Atheist

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Zeus723's picture
I am quite happy with the

I am quite happy with the comments and responses that I have received to my post. Frankly I am quite surprised with the varied opinions expressed to me. I'd expected a much more negative response. I also have many libertarian friends and often agree with many of them. I think we should stay out of foreign entanglements, but I disagree with this new Globalist ideology and consider myself a strong Nationalist. I'll limit my political comments to that as I fully realize this is a forum related to Atheism and not political debates. Again, I thank everyone for your very honest and straight forward comments.

mykcob4's picture
Deregulation is just another

Deregulation is just another attempt for major corporations to operate criminally, and irresponsibly. The economic crash of 2008 was due to deregulation and lack of enforcement. Conservatives never learn a thing from history!

Seenyab4's picture
Well isn't it also the

Well isn't it also the governments fault? They failed to enforce the limits that THEY imposed.

mykcob4's picture
@Seenyab4

@Seenyab4
Yep. Thank you "W" Bush for not enforcing the laws and oversight and gutting the SEC. You really need to learn about how government works and who did what and when.

Zeus723's picture
Yeah, I guess that's why Jack

Yeah, I guess that's why Jack Kennedy cut taxes. I don't don't think the Liberals of today would even allow him into the Democrat Party. My but times change. Yeah, it sure as hell is difficult being a Right Wing Radical these days.

mykcob4's picture
Another conservative lie. You

Another conservative lie. You conservatives ALWAYS want to hijack a famous Liberal and say that today they would be considered conservative. Yeah, Kennedy cut taxes and he PAID for those tax cuts. He also started programs like the PEACE CORPS. Kennedy would never be considered a conservative, he had vision and compassion which would automatically disqualify him.

ZeffD's picture
I am socially liberal and

I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative like most contributors to atheist threads appear to be, in my experience.

I think that the three main causes of human conflict are religion, nationalism and ideology. Try having a war without them. They must all go eventually but religion is the easiest to dispose of. They are the basis of the worst tribalism.

I don't think we'd all agree on exactly what 'Globalist ideology' is, if it exists. Globalisation is a phenomenon, not an ideology. It is probably an inevitable and happy consequence of the Internet and other technological progress. These trends, fast global transport and 24/7 news are making us all more connected while increasing understanding and global discussions. Globalization is tending to highlight the senseless tribalism and the need for inclusive, global laws. I don't think the world wants (nor can have) a good ideology. What we can do together as Earthlings is to uncover rules for governing human societies that work, such as political democracy, freedom of speech and expression, separation of Church and State and separation of powers. Both written and unwritten constitutions can work. What can't work is an ideology shared by all. So I think history will view this period as one where mankind uncovers how to create a peaceful, human society worldwide.

mykcob4's picture
I totally agree ZeffD. People

I totally agree ZeffD. People that against "globalization" are just kidding themselves. It's inevitable. Nationalism (false patriotism), Religion, demonization, serve no purpose but to segregate people and create hatred. This is the conservative construct. As a world we are forced by natural circumstance to come together. Thus we must naturally come to a decision of singular government. No matter how we resist it, it is inevitable. I tend to think that fair enterprise socialism will prevail. A form of representative democracy not unlike we have in the USA. The conservative ideal is to limit government to smaller and smaller realms to actually be ineffectual. They recoil from "regulation" because they fear being held responsible for their actions. In capitalism it is the goal of all corporations to gain the entire market share(end competition), control the customer base (end tort), and use no labor cost (slave labor) yielding the maximum profit margin. Thus pure capitalism is corrupt. Thus libertarianism and conservatism are corrupt.
The most effective tools for these corruptions are religion (to drive the masses in blind obedience), populace conspiracy propaganda (to create a villain that isn't there), and nationalism (to sperate and divide the masses into manageable sectors). Brexit is one result of this strategy, racism is another.

algebe's picture
Mykcob4:

Mykcob4:
I agree with you on globalization, nationalism, religion and demonization. I disagree with everything else. But unless you're arguing that religions are somehow helping Apple, Toyota and Samsung to dominate the world, I'm going to stop there, because I think we're drifting off topic and into the minefield of politics.

mykcob4's picture
Here's how it works Algebe.

Here's how it works Algebe. Major corporations use religions to gain obedience and to propagate misinformation. The lie that labor unions cause businesses to go under. The most successful airline in the world, Southwest Airlines, just happens to be the most unionized. That is one example. I could go on and on about how big business is intertwined with churches. False patriotism, populism, hate, anger, false indignation, bigotry, demagoguery, demonizing, pseudo-science, revisionist history, all developed by big corporations and the message carried out by churches and propaganda media outlets like FOX Noise!

algebe's picture
Well I've got a GM car, Dell

Well I've got a GM car, Dell computers, a Panasonic TV and a Samsung phone. I regularly fly on Singapore Airlines. I've never been proselytized or deceived by any of the these companies, though I have to admit that Samsung's customer service is really, really annoying. I'm also in regular contact with several major Japanese corporations, especially their PR, IR and HR units, through my work. Not once I have seen a hint of religious links or attempts at control and deception. Several of my clients have dozens of subsidiaries in North America and Europe, but they never mention religious donations or affiliations, although they frequently contribute to educational, cultural and environmental initiatives.

I know that there have been many excesses and crimes by businesses, but on balance I think that the industrial revolution and the birth of capitalism are by far the best things that have happened to humanity, just as Christianity and Islam are by far the worst. Capitalism has the potential to be made better. Religion does not.

ZeffD's picture
"Thus pure capitalism is

Myke: "Thus pure capitalism is corrupt. Thus libertarianism and conservatism are corrupt."
All ideology is damaging if it is seen as something to follow or construct instead of as one narrow, generalized view. The very concept is flawed if taken far. .

Big government isn't bad or good and neither is small government. The important thing is to discuss issue by issue and aim for a good balance. The trouble starts when people feel personally over-invested in an outcome. It is easy to convince a self-confessed libertarian that a government is too big, but debating what to cut is far more useful and constructive. What's important is attention to detail, lack of commitment to an ideological goal and a willingness to compromise. That is far more difficult if one is already committed to more than a manifesto, if one is committed to an outcome by declaring oneself for smaller government. (I have never heard anyone say they want a larger one).

As for regulation, take the financial crisis of 2008. It wasn't "greedy bankers" or corporations that were the problem, as Mr Greenspan admits, it was poor regulation. He was head of the Fed Res until 2006 and it was during his period that these financial "bundles" of debt and investment "instruments" were invented. People were making money, western economies were growing and Mr Greenspan had the integrity to admit much of the fault for failing to see where that would lead. It wasn't an ideological question (although it can be seen that way); not greedy bankers (although there were some, then as now and in all periods), nor was it the fault of Corporations (though there is such a thing as too big to fail and their lobbying groups often behave reprehensibly. Nearly as bad as the Gun Lobby, AIPAC or many others perhaps). The Crisis stemmed primarily from 'repackaging' debt (esp sub-prime and mortgage debt) until nobody but the direct owner was quite sure who ultimately owned it.

None of what I write ignores the fact that Corporations are trying to get ISDS through. People (I think) are wrong to oppose TTIP and CETA the details of which often facilitate trade, cut business costs and so benefit everybody. It is specifically ISDS that is the real issue and if Corps cannot get it through a trade deal like those between economic blocks they'll be looking to get it some other way. The way Corps are taxed is also a problem. They are better equipped and positioned to pay less tax (often by use of tax havens) than are medium and smaller businesses. This makes them very powerful. The answer doesn't lie in adherence to a "coherent" ideology. It lies in voters caring what's true and what isn't and who to trust.

algebe's picture
@Zeffd:

@Zeffd:
"Big government isn't bad or good and neither is small government."

Exactly right. The real issue is the sort of people you allow to stand between producers and consumers, between workers and employers. In our societies that's politicians and bureaucrats. We've let those people become more important than the people they're supposed to serve. That's another parallel with religions. There's nothing wrong with people believing in sky fairies if it gives them comfort. And there's nothing wrong with sky fairies because they are perfectly non-existent. The evil comes from the go-betweens--the priests, the mullahs, the preachers.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
I love being an American but

I love being an American but a lot of us want to just mind our own business while the rest of the world burns when in fact, we live in a place that was built on the backs of people of many nationalities. Americans today fail to realize that countries are homes in a neighborhood called the world and we simply cannot ignore our neighbors. People say "hey man why are we all in their business! Screw the president!" Look, our economy is affected directly by the global economy. To maintain ours we MUST help other countries. Don't get me wrong I've studied economics for a while but you don't have to in order to see my point. This is common sense. (By the way.. most products and food especially food lol, that we enjoy is not from the homeland. They are in the comforts of our homes because of global trade!)

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