How can the West maintain secularism with pouring Muslims?

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Hitch's picture
How can the West maintain secularism with pouring Muslims?

Muslims are the most religious of all religious. Islam is an intolerant belief that opposes every modern value. With muslims becoming a majority in Europe (especially Britain) by 2050, modernity and western values will be at stake because they will be able to legislate a change in constitution.
How best can this be avoided?

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Sapporo's picture
I'm optimistic that within

I'm optimistic that within the next 500 years, Islam will reform significantly for the better.

NeverHappened's picture
Realistically, Western

Realistically, Western secularism is not up to the job. Religion is visceral and deep (not necessarily right) . Scientific and intellectual analysis cannot stand up to a religious ideology based on conquest and control. And Christianity, which provided the gut level support of European culture in the centuries past is dead. We may not like religion, but we don't have anything to offer on a visceral level to match it. Nationalism can replace religion but people are justifiably afraid of that as well.

I do not cheer when I see former cathedrals redone as mosques. When Christian churches abandon some of their own standards to avoid offending Muslims on the right, and wingnuts on the left. When the horrid socialists are outvoted in Amsterdam by Sharia political parties (yes Islam is VERY MUCH a violent political movement, like Naziism and Communism)

This is a case of out of the pan and into the fire. Islam is based on control, either by conversion or violence. There is (and has not been for the past 600 years) any concept of tolerance.

And don't expect them to mellow out with time. Second generation Muslims, born in the West are actually more likely to become involved in terrorism. Meanwhile the reproduction rate is very high, in France it is estimated that 25% of teenagers are Muslim.

arakish's picture
To be honest, the only

To be honest, the only recourse we have is to speak up and be heard. Islam is not only the most religious, it is also, as of the current time, the most violent and heinous and abhorrent of any ideology. Islam is also not just a regilion, it is a tyrannical totalitarian system of government. Islam's sole purpose is to gain complete power and annihilate all of its opposition. If we do not stand up against Islam now, regardless of the Islamophobia and fears of “offending” or “hurting the feelings” of people who choose to believe in the faerie tales of an obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, offensive, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious texts about a make-believe Sky Faerie, then we are doomed. I forget who said it, but it is so true (paraphrased), "All evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing."

Islam is Pure Evil in any definition of that term. Any ideology that is so fearful of criticism that it must kill those who criticize that ideology is Pure Evil. Period. Exclamation Point!

As Sam Harris said (paraphrased), "The main problem is not Islamic fundamentalism, but the fundamentals of Islam."

Here in America, we have had the first Islamic person elected to a political office. I forget where and what office, but it is going to be interesting to see if she can keep her awful and contemptible and despicable religious beliefs out of her politics. I doubt she will. ALL Islamics/Muslims are extremists in my POV due to the fundamentals of their ideology.

I asked another Muslim here this question, "If Islam is a religion of peace, then why is there no peace in any Islamic state? Why is there only tyrannical totalitarian despotic dictatorships?" All you hear from any and all Islamic states is endless inane and asinine rhetoric about how "The West" must be destroyed.

Even us atheists and free thinkers and rational thinkers must be willing to get dirty in the war against Islam. Else we are doomed. Fearful of offending them? So the fuck what? I am not fearful of offending any Religious Absolutist, regardless of their threats.

Islam is Pure Evil. Christianity is Pure Evil. ALL religion is Pure Evil. Period. Exclamation Point!

rmfr

arakish's picture
A further note. All those

A further note. All those Islamic civil wars seem to be waged for them to get rid of their undesirables much like in America's earliest colonization period.

rmfr

Cognostic's picture
I can not respond to this

I can not respond to this post. 2, 7, 11. Islam is the mother load of all bad ideas. We should tax Muslims and use the money to support equal rights around the world and the Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Separate church and state.

Separate church and state.

Algebe's picture
@SecularSonOfABi.. Separate

@SecularSonOfABi.. Separate church and state.

Separate church and planet. (Eric Idle)

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
@algebe even better.

@algebe even better.

NeverHappened's picture
Not so easy when the invading

Not so easy when the invading hordes (many of whom can vote) demand that the state bow to their religion. There is no Muslim majority country that separates church and state. Turkey sort of did it for a while, but that's down the tubes too.

The construct of the US Constitution had some basic assumptions about the cultural character of the population, and even libertarians realize that a free society cannot exist where the culture is completely alien or is in chaos

Diotrephes's picture
Hitch,

Hitch,

"With muslims becoming a majority in Europe (especially Britain) by 2050, modernity and western values will be at stake because they will be able to legislate a change in constitution.
How best can this be avoided?"

If that is a major legitimate concern then deport all of them while you are still able to do it. And be sure to toss out the collaborators as well. Of course chances are you will be dead before 2050 so why worry about it?

Rickdiculous's picture
Here's a *burps* possible

Here's a *burps* possible post in an Islamic forum:

Atheists are the most anti-Islamic of all non-Islamic people. Atheism is an intolerant stance that opposes every Islamic value. With atheists growing constantly in Europe (especially Britain) by 2050, Islamic values will be at stake because they will be able to legislate a change in constitution.
How best can this be avoided?

PS: I wanted to reply to the OP and now I can't somehow delete this and repost it as a reply to the OP. Help?

Cognostic's picture
I have not heard of any

I have not heard of any Atheists smearing pig blood on mosques or protesting the mosque at ground zero. The Christian community on the other hand..... well they get a free pass. Can you even imagine the uproar if atheists were to ban together and protest a mosque? The good Christians would immediately become best friends with the Muslims in the name of religious freedom.

Rickdiculous's picture
Well, you lack perspective.

Well, you lack perspective.

If I am a Muslim and brought up in a Muslim family, then I am convinced that I need to do certain things to get to heaven. From this perspective, I am absolutely doing nothing wrong because I have god on my side.

Now, coming back to the OP, if we are to ever see these horrible practises eradicated, we must start with attacking their ideas and not the people. If there is a government policy that restricts Muslims, I don't see how it will help achieve eradicating the atrocities of religion (be it any). In my opinion, the chances of a Muslim guy giving up his religion are higher if he moves to a non Islamic country rather than staying in an Islamic one (I have no evidence to support this, so open to discussion). If not right away, but definitely the probability gets higher for future generations.

Thoughts?

arakish's picture
And that is why I said the

And that is why I said the only alternative we have to take a stand, speak up, and be heard. We can defeat the bad by speaking up against it. All evil needs to succeed is for good people to do nothing.

rmfr

Algebe's picture
Rickdiculous@: In my opinion,

Rickdiculous@: In my opinion, the chances of a Muslim guy giving up his religion are higher if he moves to a non Islamic country rather than staying in an Islamic one

Nope. Migrants tend to cling more conservatively to the ways of the old country. They are surrounded by an alien culture that they don't fully understand, so they tend to cluster in enclaves for mutual support. If they experience racism or intolerance from the mainstream population, they will be vulnerable to radicalization because of their sense of grievance. Youthful rebellion in a Muslim majority country is likely to be away from Islam. In a non-Muslim country, young Muslims are more likely to rebel against their Westernized parents by becoming more radical.

Rickdiculous's picture
@Algebe: "In a non-Muslim

@Algebe: "In a non-Muslim country, young Muslims are more likely to rebel against their Westernized parents by becoming more radical."
If the parents are westernised, what are the chances their next generation will take up radical islamic teachings (because of their parents)? This might happen, but the chances are just way too low.

Let's look at this objectively. If you want to talk sense into a person born in an Islamic family, what would be the best time to do it? When that person is 6 or 60? Now, if this 6 year old is exposed to science/other cultures/different traditions in his/her non-islamic country, isn't he/she more likely to see the issue? Would this 6 year old feel the same if he/she was in an Islamic country?

NeverHappened's picture
The Christians are afraid of

The Christians are afraid of the Muslims. Just look at the Pope and his 'religion of peace' bs.

A few hundred years ago, the Christians took a stand at the gates of Vienna, which is why Europe is more or less democratic and not Eurostan. But they're pathetic now, unwilling to say or do anything which might make them look 'intolerant' Liberal guilt (Christian or otherwise) is gutting Europe and threatening the US as well. And too many of the atheists are more interested in debates about Biblical contradictions than taking a hard stand. Freedom is precious, but very easily lost

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
"chances are you will be dead

"chances are you will be dead before 2050 so why worry about it?"

And this summarizes the mentality of people who vote for the Climate Deniers and Clean Energy antagonists.

Cause Fuck our grandchildren.

Diotrephes's picture
SecularSonOfABi...,

SecularSonOfABi...,

"Cause Fuck our grandchildren."

As it says in Ecclesiastes 6:12 (ERV) = "Who knows what is best for people during their short life on earth? Their life passes like a shadow. No one can tell them what will happen later."

Did your granparents know what kind of a world you would be living in 2019? I doubt it.

Cognostic's picture
DEAD BY 2050 - Honestly,

DEAD BY 2050 - Honestly, that is my opinion. If people are too stupid to see the threat of Islam, and do nothing about it..... it will never effect me. I am living in the final days of Capitalism. Socialism and Theocracy seem to be just around the corner. The new world order is going to be government and religious control of everything. Here it comes....

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