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“God is uncreated” What is your proof of this assertion?
What evidence do you have that your god even exists?
the very question whether a god exists or not is always kept open by all atheist if it can be proven in any way as rational, logical and practical as we see ice turning into water and then boiling into steam and then lost in the air and then the other way round. Ofcourse seeing around at things and thinking that there must be a creator is a good kick start towards the real question. But the real problem comes in when every religion demands to believe in god in their way or else hell is your destiny whatever you do.
Obviously you do not understand a lot of things about atheist. that is the reason why you are not one. If you are convince and comfortable in your faith then i will advise( just personal) not to knock on the atheist doors as most of the atheists here did have the same believes in the past as you might have. but they went ahead and tried to make sense of their own standing. if you ask atheist why. They will tell you why. and then either you will start questioning the same questions (road to atheism) or you will just leave them ignored as you wont be much bothered. People leave religions because they are apparently the only one selling god for their long term agendas.
I read your this and other comments, your points are absolutely perfect and more near to reality.
Maryam...
"Which means He existed always"
What you mean by always remember always has some starting point can you tell that starting point, or always don,t have any starting point?
"God is uncreated"
If something is uncreated then how it exist even it is hidden or not?
"I don't understand Why you people Compare God with Human beings..??"
Can you tell comparing standards?
""Were they created of nothing, or are they themselves the creators?” 52: 35-36"
I don,t know the answer of this question but if you want to prove it then you must provide clear and valid evidence of existence of Allah(God)?
"What you mean by always remember always has some starting point can you tell that starting point, or always don,t have any starting point?"
"if something is uncreated then how it exist even it is hidden or not?"
If a god is created he can't be god, because his creator will become god then... So a true God must be the one who is uncreated and who was and will be always existing because he is not like His creation, nor similar to it, in any way
"Can you tell comparing standards?"
Your comparison is about the creation of God.. We human beings are need to create and by saying that God must also been created by something else, it is as though we think that God is also like human beings and all other creations when the real fact is that God is nothing like His creations. If God is being created by something else, then, there's no point of of believing in God because in that case, God is also part of creation, not Creator. Thus, a Creator which is the God does not need another creator because He is not the creation... so don't compare God with Human beings..
Islam is the only religion which ask you to believe in only one God and free from worshiping any sort of creation and the verse 112 :3 describes about God correctly like Absolutely One , Independent, Eternal, Is not begotten. Doesn't beget and etc because if there would be multiple gods then there would be no sense of believing in them...
""Were they created of nothing, or are they themselves the creators?” Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain. 52: 35-36"
Be honest to yourself and Realize this questions ....This verse is for us.. Think how are you created...or you created the universe...??
"What you mean by always remember always has some starting point can you tell that starting point, or always don,t have any starting point?"
Here i am talking about word "always". I shall write always without meaning in double quotes like this "always" so that you can understand my question easly. without double quotes is common always which we use normally in our daily language. Now come to the point. all "always" has starting points there is no any "always" without starting point. "always" must have starting point and may be there is no ending point of "always". So you said Allah(God) was always and shall always so i am asking if God was always then where from that "always" started. There must be starting point of "always". If you still did not understand my question, tell me again i shall explain it in urdu language.
"a Creator which is the God does not need another creator"
Religion tells there is only one creature who created this universe but religion does not tell where from God came. As you told God is not created that,s why he is created so question is If God is not created then where from God came, Can you tell if God is not created then where from God came?
the Question How or when God came into existence is as confusing and crazy as If not god then what???
simply because no one has presented an answer to these particular questions.
so it only comes down to opinions. and ofcourse everyone will have their reasons to hold their opinions.
"Were they created of nothing, or are they themselves the creators?” Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain. 52: 35-36"
As i told you already, i don,t know the answer of this question, I don,t know whether God exists or not but i don,t have any clear and proper evidence of God,s existance. if you have evidence of existance of God then please prove it here with clear and proper evidence. I shall beleive in Allah(God) but you have to prove Allah(God),s existance with clear and proper evidence.
With all due respect, Mary is reciting explanations that require blind faith. Empirical evidence is the key from religious mental bondage. Religion is mind control....plain and simple. An ancient method of mentally controlling large numbers of people. Programming people to fight wars with a claim of eternal life while you waste the one life you have in servitude to a myth.
ImFree...
I am agree with you. I also think religion is just to control minds of large number of peoples. Can you provide some material for knowing ancient and modern mind control techniques or methods.
I think she consider us dumb and deaf peoples and in quran god tells deaf and dumb people shall not follow you. I think she is mentally bound to religion only. If she shall think logically and focus on empirical evidence then may she can open mind but i tell you she shall not like to become open mind because she has too blind faith. She answers my questions from quran without logics she just tells signs of existence of God, she does not focus on empirical evidence. while evidence is more stronger than sign.
Many times sign can be wrong but evidence can not be wrong.
She is here to prove her faith true. Why she is doing this? She is doing this because her religion tells her to spread her religion for earning recitudes. She think, she can go to paradise after life due to her recitudes. That,s why she is doing this all. but she don,t think what is realty behind mist.
ilovequestions - "It's because the Resurrection has never been refuted."
I'm going to play your game for a moment and pretend that this is true.
Jesus' tomb being empty can be explained by possibilities more reasonable than divine resurrection. The swoon hypothesis is one of them, and as far as I know tho only reasoning against it is the supposed state of the man's health and medical arguments which are based upon hearsay with a complete lack of legitimate medical observation at the time of death.
I'm with you on twins and conspiracies and the like; they can neither be proved nor disproved because they are not based on logic, but fanciful supposition.
What is also not provable but still reasonable is grave robbery, mistaken identity (of the man OR of the grave-site itself), the swoon hypothesis, or even out and out lying. Any of these is more likely than divine resurrection.
"For me, it's this simple: If the Resurrection happened, Christianity is true and Jesus is God. If the Resurrection did not happen, Christianity is false and Jesus was a liar/lunatic. It's that simple."
I don't think you need to be quite so cut-and-dried as this [only a sith deals in absolutes], if Jesus was not resurrected, why couldn't that be yet another part of the bible which was not meant to be taken literally? With all the contradiction in scripture, both internal and with outside sources, most Christians I've met have been willing to concede that some things are parables or fables, meant to impart a lesson, not as a literal record of historic events. Why can this one not be the same?
Academic, of course, because I haven't seen any evidence of Jesus' resurrection. I'm not even 100% convinced he existed in the way he is portrayed in the gospels.
ilovequestions - "It's because the Resurrection has never been refuted."
LoL IT HAS, if you hear only Christians, they will tell you something similar.
But if you check real historians and critics, the Resurrection is one of the most refuted parts of the bible.
Credibility-
The Resurrection is one of the FEW stories in the bible that appears in all 4 gospels.
Which makes it a focal point, some scholars consider it as one of the reasons why ONLY those gospels were chosen from the 20+ gospels.
= most gospels do not have a Resurrection story so they were left out from the bible(humans made this decision)
Consistency-
Although the story it is mentioned in all 4 gospels, the gospels agree on practically nothing regarding the details of the story.
The only thing they agree upon is that it was a MONDAY.
EG:
what day did Jesus die?
Mark- day after Passover
John- day before Passover
So Jesus either died twice or the gospels are not reliable accounts, even worse enlightened by god. (don't make me laugh)
Eyewitnesses accounts-
None, what so ever.
Watch this for more info.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3qXQt6dYME
And do your research well before posting nonsense here.
I think this is where one should focus more rather than god exists or not.
1. Assuming God exists establish your very reasons why you are where you are (left your religion).
2. You are seeking answers for yourself didnt god made you capable of doing so. if you were not going to question!!! then how were you ever going to know good teachings from bad (religous or other).
3. You are not being forced to do so. religion on the other hand is taught without choice depending on where ever you were born.
4. Not believing in a religion is a crime in the eyes of those religions. Not god. and every religion in that sense is a criminal for other religion,( not to mention crusades and jihad and mahabharat)
Aber...
"Not believing in a religion is a crime in the eyes of those religions. Not god. and every religion in that sense is a criminal for other religion,( not to mention crusades and jihad and mahabharat)"
As you told not beleiving in religion is crime in eyes of religions. In this way all religions are criminal because each religion think other all religions are criminal. May leaving religion i am criminal in eyes of religions but not in eyes of God if he/she exists and if he/she does not exist then it is not problem for me to not beleiving in religion. So in this situation i am feeling myself more satisfyable and secure.
look you need to understand that believing in God is one thing and believing in a religion is another that comes after the belief in god.
so both have to be dealt seperately. if you leave a religion for some reason does not prove God does not exist at all.
you only have answered one question here. the question of god existence is not dependent on a religion. that is what we need to understand. you can believe in a god as a super intelligent being in a total sceintific or even a personal way.
But religion is a seperate question. If one says that there is no harm in believing in god that is rite. but there can be harm in believing in a wrong religion.
which also will not make much sense if you consider the god at his own seperate from religions.
Is this divine being so little in hart that just because u didnt believe in a certain way ( religions/ which itself is centuries old and confusing ) it will throw u in hell.
dont you thins it sounds a little crazy that this was his best way of testing humanity that he had to send books and miracles only when man was less literate and then test the coming humanity on faith when literacy/science might suggest other wise........
As i told i have religion free now mean i have left religion because i think it is just fiction.
I am here talking about creature of this universe only that,s why this thread i started because i was confusing about existance of God only not about religion because i have sure religion is not right. but i am not sure about existance of God. I think there is no God 99.99% but i also think may be God exist 00.001% due to design of this universe.
If you can or have established your grounds why you left religion.
You will not be bothered by the existence of God. Whether or not he is there you were looking for him not priests or pundits or imams.
May be the god entity is not bothered by the shit we are into, he just created us to make this planet survive and keep moving forward or not who knows. Obviously religions have failed to explain this that is why you are here.
Aber...
I have contacted to big religious leaders also, any of them did not answered correctly. According to my views religions are no more than fiction. But beside religions we are talking about creature of this universe only.
Your points directs to that If we don,t know whether God exists or not, we should not care about God.
as i said in a different post that we should seperate God with religion first. then you can care as much about God as u like.
And religious scholars often fail to answer the real questions because.
1) there are no real answers not atleast in their religions.
2) not many people think or ask such questions that is why religion is otherwise very popular.
3) thirdly even if you try to take it on faith then scholar of every religion will always give you some sort of answer trying to prove his religion rite. No one will say" yeah you are rite let's leave this religion"
Hence another proof that the answers lie somewhere else you should seek yourself. every religion will only sell their agenda.
I agree with you.
I agree with you.
It depends what you mean by god. Do you mean any God or the God of Abraham? The God of Abraham began as a henotheist god which means the head of a council of gods. Abraham was from the capital of Sumer which was the city Ur. God called him out and to the promised land at the same time the Sumerian civilization was collapsing ( convenient coincidence). The Sumerian creation myth is similar and more detailed than the creation story in the bible and a story Abraham would have been extremely familiar with. Then there is a series of religion syncretisms with cultures around the Fertile Crescent especially the Canaanite God El, his wife Asherah, and son Baal. Also Egyptian ideas of the afterlife, then Moses comes in and after fleeing Egypt marries the daughter of the high priest Jethro of the Yahweh cult in Midian. This is when the religion became Monotheistic. Zoroastrian beliefs of the duality of good and evil were incorporated into Israelite beliefs after the conquering of Babylon by Persia. By the time of Christ platonic ideas also have Influenced their beliefs. The God of the bible is far removed from the original God of Abraham. Other concepts of God came about through similar syncretism.
Professorgrif2003...
I mean by God creature of universe and who can interfare in our lives and he/she have all powers.
The details about religion you told matchs with stories in quran particularly story of Moses marriage to Jethro,s daughter. In Islam jethro is shoab.
I also think all abraham religions are same like Islam, christion and jeduasem.
Robot after reading all your comments and belief. There is something wrong with your calculations. You have a total knowledge of what exists and what don't. You Just don't have faith.
There's a 99.9 % hypocrisy in your 0.01 % atheism.
Evidences ?? Those signs you are talking about are itself the evidences.
You have just made your mind to be neutral both ways. But that will end u up being confused.
For your information "To have faith" is the worst advice you can give to an atheist. because no matter how you define faith.
what it really means is to believe in something without proof or explanation.
this may sound a tiny thing but this is enough loop hole to sell any religion. to have faith is exactly where the battle starts from.
by the way i dont know what point you tried to make by the calculation thing. but .01% or whatever percentage of doubt one may give. this is actual an open door for any proof to come any time. proof not faith.
You need to be an atheist to understand what atheist thinks and how he thinks. what is the point of coming to an athiest forum and complaining about them not having faith. Faith (believe without proof) is there very problem.
"There's a 99.9 % hypocrisy in your 0.01 % atheism. " As i told i don,t beleive there is no God 99.99% but i also beleive in God 00.01%. It means there is no clear evidence of existance of God and also no clear evidence of none existance of God. I think you did not read my all comments with attention particularly you did not read my that prayr which i posted in one comment with a link about pascal wager.
My comments are long but read them with attention then you may come to know my real points.
"Evidences ?? Those signs you are talking about are itself the evidences."
If sign itself is evidence then what is difference between sign and evidence. I don,t think sign and evidence are same meaning. If i am wrong then explain meanings and defintions of sign and evidence.
"You have just made your mind to be neutral both ways. But that will end u up being confused."
I told i don,t beleive in God 99.99% because there are no clear evidences of his/her existance. but i also don,t have any proof to prove that there is no God.
God and religion are different things. I left religion because each religion is criminal in eyes of each others so i left religion because i don,t know which religion is right. But whenever i look to existance of God then i think there is no clear and proper evidence of God,s existance but i am sure if God exists then he/she don,t want to interfare in our lives or he/she don,t care us, If God want us to worship then he/she knows we all are confused due to lack of evidence only, in this situation God must provide evidence of his/her existance but he/she did not showed any evidence. If we look around very carefully there are a lot of reasons which tells God don,t want all of us including all religions to worship.
As Aber told 00.001% means the door is always open for coming clear evidence.
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