Reality comes to roost

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SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
The answer is no. One must

The answer is no. One must find it on their own.

Sheldon's picture
Not really, since

Not really, since indoctrination is to teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically, and atheism isn't a "set of beliefs". Though of course there ideological systems that encompass atheism and also involve indoctrination. In the former Soviet union for example, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge.

The truth is that atheism in such totalitarian regimes is just a means to an end, that is to destroy the influence and power of the organised religions, and the belief in the divine right of kings.

So short answer, no it is not possible to indoctrinate someone into atheism.

Empedocles's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

"In the former Soviet union for example, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge?"

Sheldon's picture
I see the question mark, is

I see the question mark, is there a question about the two examples I used?

Diotrephes's picture
AJ777,

AJ777,

"Is it possible one to be indoctrinated into Atheism just as well as in a particular religious belief?"

Are you being indoctrinated into atheism? If not, why not?

Grinseed's picture
Not at all. Atheism offers no

Not at all. Atheism offers no punishment or reward. There aren't any rules and anyone can join in.
Was that an expression of interest AJ?

accessmymynd's picture
Have you ever noticed that

Have you ever noticed that Athiestism cannot find much of a place in the world of American politics and government ?

True there is Rep. Barney Frank (Democrat from -Mass.) who puts on a show, pretending and forcing himself to speak like he has a speech impediment in order to appeal to his like-minded supporters - who would never support him unless he pretended to be like them.

Also, there isn’t a single admitted atheist currently in The Congress. Most of the politicians place their hand on the Bible and many pray to God admit it.

I would support an atheist politician if they would hold to some form of reality, instead of making an entire career of pandering untruthful, unfactual and twisted claims. I have had atheist friends who were very intelligent and they openly expressed that they literally did not believe in a god. But they were honest about it. I see so many atheists, especially in this forum who step outside of reality and attempt to make their case based on unfactual alternatives as they gather a string of half verses and out of context phrazes from the Bible.

But there is so much more to making a claim to support atheism - than just simply going through a list of passages of a 5000-year-old book and dumping out the rest of the surrounding content overboard and making claims about half sentences and twisted and altered words that have nothing to do with the rest of the content. In the end - all that is created and we find - is the fact that atheists have created their own version or translation of the Bible.- that has nothing to do with the real Bible and that is contradicted by the rest of the surrounding content.

Under the current, terms and explanations of Atheists - they never make it very far unless they appeal and align themselves with the most dishonorable and base and failed elements of society. it is like taking a trip to New York and literally chaining one's self up, and becoming immobile, and simply wildly flapping their angelic wings.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: Whatever the fuck that

Re: Whatever the fuck that shit was that just spewed all over the place from Accessmymynd.

*hands on hips looking around in disgust and frustration*..... Nope, nope, nope.... Not gonna do it again... Not this time. Nuh-uh.... I am NOT cleaning up this mess. Somebody else's turn. I got the last two (or three?).... *pinching nose shut while heading toward exit and carefully tip-toeing around stinky brown piles*.....

Algebe's picture
@accessmymynd: Have you ever

@accessmymynd: Have you ever noticed that Athiestism cannot find much of a place in the world of American politics and government ?

Are atheists to blame for that, or is it a symptom of profound dysfunction in the American political system? Perhaps it's time for America to dump its outmoded first-past-the-post race between Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dumber, and adopt a truly democratic electoral system.

I don't see why a person's religion or lack thereof should of any interest to voters. Politics and government should be primarily focused on getting the economy right and maintaining law and order. When people vote according to which god a candidate pretends to prays to, you end up with a bunch of talentless hypocrites wearing their Bibles on their sleeves.

Diotrephes's picture
accessmymynd,

accessmymynd,

"In the end - all that is created and we find - is the fact that atheists have created their own version or translation of the Bible.- that has nothing to do with the real Bible and that is contradicted by the rest of the surrounding content."

All of the biblical stories are bases on one or more of the Ten Commandments found in Exodus 34:11-28 and the miracles are based on Exodus 34:10. So if you understand that then you will never take anything out of context.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Accessmy mind

@ Accessmy mind

I see so many atheists, especially in this forum who step outside of reality and attempt to make their case based on unfactual alternatives as they gather a string of half verses and out of context phrazes from the Bible.

Hilarious. The irony burns so much. Stick around on these forums and see how many theists come on these threads quoting the Bible or The Qu'ran as ineffable proof of their faith.
The many of them get surly and flounce their petticoats when we quote either whole passages (in context) , the correct passages, or other passages that flatly contradict what they are saying.

I have yet to meet another theist (I have met two, in person) who have the most rudimentary grasp on the history and origins of their faith, never mind their book. Most are woefully, wilfully ignorant.

If you want cases of intellectual dishonesty there are a couple here already ...just read the posts and the replies. Note the avoidance of direct questions. The refusal to respond when mendacity or ignorance is exposed.

It is the theists chaining themselves to the lowest and demonstrably criminal enterprises in the form of tax subsidised organised religion that are " appeal[ing] and align[ing] themselves with the most dishonorable and base and failed elements of society.

(Edit: Tags and spelling)

Nyarlathotep's picture
accessmymynd has been removed

accessmymynd has been removed, they were a sockpuppet.

AJ777's picture
CyberLN you wrote:

CyberLN you wrote:

“There were way too many other more important things to teach them.”

Seems to me that if atheism is false and a creator of you, and the universe exists, there could be nothing more important than to find out Who that creator is and for what purpose you and the universe were created. It can’t be helped that your beliefs and attitudes help to shape the beliefs and attitudes and behaviors of your children. In a very real sense this website is a form of atheistic indoctrination, in that it could serve as an echo chamber of like minded people affirming each others beliefs, or lack of beliefs as some would say. My experience here thus far is that dissenting opinions are met by hostility and derision by some, instead of open minded discussion about the issues.

Tin-Man's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

I swear, you make this waaaaaaay too easy....

1. IF some "Creator" exists, and that "Creator" is supposedly all-powerful and all-knowing as you claim your god to be, then that son-of-a-bitch knows where to find me if he really does want me to believe in him. (Not saying I would ever worship it, mind you. But if it presents itself to me, then I would not have much choice but to believe in it.) Meanwhile, I DO have MANY other things to do that are MUCH MORE important than wasting my time playing hide-n-seek with some type of narcissistic asshole who obviously does not want to be found.... IF it even exists in the first place.

2. Re: "It can’t be helped that your beliefs and attitudes help to shape the beliefs and attitudes and behaviors of your children."

Since I have no children of my own, I have no horse in that race. However, I cannot WAIT to hear Cyber's reply.... *backing a safe distance away and finding solid object to hide behind*....

3. Re: "In a very real sense this website is a form of atheistic indoctrination..."

LMAO..... Holy hell! You really ARE trying your damnedest to top your number one ridiculous remark, aren't you?.... *chuckle*... Oh, lawdy, that one was close, I have to admit. So, just out of curiosity, who exactly put the gun to YOUR head to make you sign up and participate on this site? You know, I have seen others here state how dense they think you are, but I had a few reservations about that myself. Now?.... Well, let's just say I'm beginning to wonder... *scratching head*... Anyway, just to spell it out for you in simple terms (and I'll type slow, because it seems you don't read very well), you cannot compare this site - or any other such site on the internet - to a child being raised in a home or to a person forced to live in a particular social environment. Not that I expect you to comprehend that, but I at least had to try.

4. "My experience here thus far is that dissenting opinions are met by hostility and derision by some, instead of open minded discussion about the issues."

ROFLMAO.... Ow... I keep laughing like this, and I'm gonna have to get my doctor to write me a prescription for some oxygen tanks. What you get on here is a direct result of whatever you put in. Suck it up, Buttercup!... LMAO....

CyberLN's picture
Well, AJ, I think teaching

Well, AJ, I think teaching young people to treat others with respect, to be responsible stewards of the planet, to share good fortune with others, to be constantly curious, to reject that which is hurtful to others...and so many other things are FAR, FAR more important than spending that time on unprovable conjecture about creator myths.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: Cyber's reply to AJ

Re: Cyber's reply to AJ

^^^^^^^^And THAT is why I respect Cyber. ^^^^^^

Algebe's picture
@AJ777: there could be

@AJ777: there could be nothing more important than to find out Who that creator is and for what purpose you and the universe were created.

People have been searching for the answer to that question for millennia without any apparent success. All humanity has to show for these efforts is a library full of conflicting religious texts, and a cruel and bloody history. If the creator exists and wants us to know its purpose, why can't it just tell us in unmistakable terms, such as a set of commandments written in kilometer-high letters on the Moon?

As for the conversations here, are you surprised that they center on atheism and the folly of religion? This is a community of atheists. Do you expect us to talk about cars or cooking? As it says in forum banner, "For many atheists around the world, online forums and discussion groups are one of the few ways to connect with others who share their views."

What do people talk about in churches and seminaries?

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
If the site is a gateway to

If the site is a gateway to the alleged "indoctrination" of Atheism then why is a church? There are tons of churches out there and the collective goal is indoctrination. They even refer to it as a mission! So what kind of hypocritically moot point are you trying to make? That we atheists Can't have a presence on the internet? The internet... that we wouldn't have without the type of scientific research that theists love to try and discredit.

Your argument is weak and your claims are baseless.

Sheldon's picture
AJ777 "My experience here

AJ777 "My experience here thus far is that dissenting opinions are met by hostility and derision by some,"

That clearly has less to do with your beliefs, and more to do with your arrogant, sneering attacks on atheists, and your rank dishonesty. However if you find the opinions of atheists so objectionable why stick around, it;s not like you have anything to offer but more sententious preaching and trolling.

" It can’t be helped that your beliefs and attitudes help to shape the beliefs and attitudes and behaviors of your children. "

You have no idea what atheists do or do not teach their children. Besides you don't know why it is immoral to torture children, so why should we care what you think about their education?

Your trolling, and sententious preaching is tedious, and this is why your posts are largely derided.

Sheldon's picture
AJ777 " a form of atheistic

AJ777 " a form of atheistic indoctrination, in that it could serve as an echo chamber of like minded people affirming each others beliefs, "

Lack of belief...

David Killens's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

"Seems to me that if atheism is false and a creator of you, and the universe exists, there could be nothing more important than to find out Who that creator is and for what purpose you and the universe were created."

Please prove there was a "creator".

CHK-C's picture
AJ777 seems to believe

AJ777 seems to think reading an ancient book written by ignorant people thousands of years ago is the way to find out how the universe came into existence.

SIGH....

Sheldon's picture
"AJ777 seems to think"

"AJ777 seems to think"

I've seen little evidence to support that premise. An automaton blindly following ancient dogma and doctrine. He seems to prefer it this way, many theists do. It seems to assuage their fears and existential angst.

AJ777's picture
Cyber:

Cyber:
“Well, AJ, I think teaching young people to treat others with respect, to be responsible stewards of the planet, to share good fortune with others, to be constantly curious, to reject that which is hurtful to others...and so many other things are FAR, FAR more important than spending that time on unprovable conjecture about creator myths.”

I agree those are good things to teach young people, but on atheism how can one justify those ideals as being correct and good when there is no standard by which to judge what is good? When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?

Algebe's picture
@AJ777: When a young person

@AJ777: When a young person asks why sharing good fortune is a good thing how do you answer that?

The Golden Rule is a good place to start. Christianity doesn't have a copyright on that.

AJ777's picture
Your not answering why one

Your not answering why one should follow a moral rule though. Just suggesting one to follow.

Algebe's picture
AJ777: Your not answering why

AJ777: Your not answering why one should follow a moral rule though. Just suggesting one to follow.

Because doing right feels right. Because one wants to live in a functioning society. Because one fears the consequences of doing wrong. What more is there?

All human societies, including pre-Christian and non-Christian ones, have always had rules and laws designed to encourage good behavior and discourage wrongdoing. We haven't always gotten it right, but we're learning and improving. Even nations have been held to account for crimes against humanity and violations of human rights.

What source of moral authority do you answer to?

Sapporo's picture
@AJ777 seems incapable of

@AJ777 seems incapable of understanding why someone would follow a rule they think is "moral".

Sheldon's picture
"Your not answering"

AJ777 "Your not answering"

I'm not sure what is more ironic, your spelling, or that lie. This question has been answered multiple times. You on the other hand have been refusing to answer questions for months. Like this one for example....

Why is it immoral to torture children?

Or if you prefer, why wasn't it immoral for your deity to torture King David's new born baby to death in the bible?

CyberLN's picture
Touché

Touché

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