Hello there my name is Jade and I am twenty years old and transgender MtF. I include this because the subject of this correlates with me and my relations with religious family members regarding me being transgender. I still have contact with my family but they often refuse to acknowledge my gender identity on the basis of their religious ideals. A phrase that is commonly regurgitated is "god doesn't make mistakes" and that "You are mutilating what gave you". This is something that bothers me because it forces their religious ideals on me by implying I am some sort of premeditated creation and there was a plan for my creating which is obviously not true. How would I refute this or what is a strong argument to make against this. Any advice or help will be appreciated because a lot of the things they say are very degrading to me.
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Well if god does not make mistakes, what are birth defects? And if they tell you that birth defects are the results of man's 'sin", point out that god made man in his own image...
And if altering your body is mutilation what god gave you, make sure none of your family members take medicine, use artificial limbs, or have any medical procedures done. You wouldn't want them to mutilate god's work would you?
Sounds fair...all your relatives should accept their "imperfections" and never let a doctor do anything. They are altering God's perfection after all. Not legit to do that.
Tough it out and never lose your self respect. That's about all I can say. Anything else I would like to say in your (self) defense is combative and hurtful if taken to heart and acted upon. People hanging onto religious notions are fragile and it doesn't take much of a nudge to get their "machinery" out of whack. Just be yourself and know you are neither alone nor disrespected (by many) for who you choose to be.
Telling you to hang in there is seems a bit empty, but hang in there and be true to yourself. Being comfortable in who you are is a key to happiness that I fear most people miss.
As to the beliefs, before the present age, man lived under the law. Now, many Christian believe that we live in the age of Grace where God loves is available unconditionally. The Day of Judgment is yet to come. Yet, many never demonstrate this unconditional love. It even goes as far as not approving of how people dress when they come to church or how often they come. Essentially, they have recreated the chains of the law in this age.
I guess my point here is, can they not demonstrate God’s unconditional love and accept you as you are? As the old song says, “just as I am”, but I have found it really should be “just as we want you”.
Only God can save and create you anew, they say. Why don’t they pray and let God work his wonders or do they lack faith? After all is he not creator and judge? He has not given that authority to them.
If they believe that the law or the Old Testament applies, do they eat shell fish? When was the last time they stoned a neighbor? The point here, why do they pick and choose which laws to follow?
I am assuming that you grew up in a religious family. So, Proverbs 22:6 say that if “train up a child in ways he should go, and when he is old will not depart from it”. Who failed here: God, the Bible, or them? This might be a bit confrontational.
I don’t know if I am helping, hurting, or confusing but wanted to give you something. If it helps in the least great. If nothing else, know that people care.
Sorry another thought. There is a famous story in John 7:53-8:11 where a women is taken in the act of adultery. They are wanting the women stoned, but Jesus asks tells them “let him who is without sin, cast the first stone”. So, their own master is telling them to not to judgment unless they are sinless.
This could be confrontational. You will need to judge what you say and how you respond.
Side note to the story, where is the man. Shouldn't he have been brought as well?
Well, of course god doesn't make mistakes, because he does not exist :D
If the Bible were true, which is what they think, then "God doesn't make mistakes" is incorrect on a monumental scale. The story of Noah's Ark regards God regretting what he'd made, and he also made the mistake of allowing Satan to persuade Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. He made the mistake of making the tree; he made the mistake of using reverse psychology by telling them not to eat from it; he made the mistake of putting that tree there in the first place, and he made the mistake of allowing them to reach it. Now, your parents might say that God did all of these things on purpose (as if that made him look better lol), but accidents and mistakes are different. A mistake can be intentional. That being said, I can name a few more. He made the mistake of creating the very concept of sin (didn't he create everything? Couldn't he have just made it so that sin wasn't possible?), he made the mistake of allowing man to become corrupt over and over again, continuously after each genocidal attempt to start over. He made the mistake of not interfering and acting like a good parent when people did unspeakable things to each other. He made the mistake of no longer showing himself like he did in biblical times when cameras were invented. He made the mistake of no longer denying cause and effect by natural means as we know them by no longer performing miracles that couldn't be dismissed as mere coincidence, while in biblical times, he did many jaw-dropping wonders in front of his people. He made the mistake of not showing up to show the world which religion is the right one. He made the mistake of making the world look in every way we've been able to observe and measure like it's billions of years old when he made it only thousands of years old. He made the mistake of giving us MOUNTAINS of evidence for evolution, and no evidence for his existence (the Bible is not the proof, it is only the claim; something the religious can't for their fucking lives understand). He made the mistake of creating an unstable and fragile system of life in which disease-causing bacteria are the very foundation for what makes larger life forms possible. And don't even get me started on every problem with the human body! I won't go into detail on that though. Instead, onto the next quote: "You are mutilating what God gave you". There is not one shred of a reason that says God didn't make you transgender. Not. One. Of course, this kind of behavior is expected of them, as all of their other claims involving their faith are also lacking in evidence, so this is nothing new. The difference, however, is that the Bible doesn't even talk about transgender people, because the people who wrote it didn't know what that was. There is nothing in that book that says you aren't transgender. If you ask them to provide you with such a claim out of that book, and to say how they apparently know God didn't make you that way, they won't come up with anything valid, and you can call them out on it. I know this is long, but I hope it helps.
Apparently, God also made Saul to be King of Israel, not knowing that he was going to be disobedient. *spoiler-alert* God regretted the f^@% out of that choice (1 Samuel 15:10-11).
Anyone who claims that god never makes mistakes has clearly never studied the bible. It is simply failure, after failure, after failure, after failure, all culminating into him having to create a loophole to the system he created by getting himself killed. But even if he didn't, who gives a crap? So, he supposedly created us, so what? I have a kid, and did the work to make and raise him, does that give me license to dictate his life to him?
NO. His and your life is your own, and both of you will have to live it to the fullest, whether anyone else approves/agrees or not.
The problem is with the definition of mistakes.
If i try and be an apologetic myself, this would be a tricky question.
because it bags the question about knowledge.
What makes you think that every mistake god did was actually a mistake and not done on purpose for some unknown reason.
So the question should be re-defined as "god does not fail".
And yes he fails every step of the way, apologetics make him look stupid to try to justify his failures.
And thus atheists on YouTube have material to make such nice videos like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdxeqEoDXco&list=RD8fox4KabGGE&index=10
"What makes you think that every mistake god did was actually a mistake and not done on purpose for some unknown reason."
Either it was a mistake or the god described is a homicidal douchebag with a giant rectum where his head should be.
Yes , one possible solution is that.
a theists might have a different solution, so it is best to stick to what we know rather to what we do not know.
Theists tend to confuse the argument by nature, lets not make it easy for them.
Well said, Jeff.
Thanks
Religious people are such hippocrites!! "God" is supposed to LOVE EVERYBODY, and NOT DISCRIMINATE against ANYONE!!
Of course, there are no explanations for children born with birth defects, diseases, or any other terrible affliction. But it definately does refute the notion that "God" creates perfection, and dosen't make mistakes. If "God" is capable of all these "miracles," then why does "He" allow innocent, defenseless children to suffer, and not perform some of these "miracles?" A theist will always have an appropiate excuse, no matter how ridiculous. Thats part of what they do to comfort themselves, go to church to learn ways to explain themselves around logical questioning. I guess "He" is still too busy trying to rid the world of sin, so children must suffer for another few thousand years.
So much to argue with, so little time...
I watched a video about these conjoined twins the other day and now I'm wondering would these theists refuse to separate them because of religion? They shouldn't even be allowed individuality? Is that not a mistake? By God? My head will explode at this rate...
Present conjoined twins as an argument and please post the reply.
Hey, so I recently escaped religion and my brother is transgender, so he's dealing with the same thing! Its really important to not offend them, even though it's really easy and sometimes really fun. Just remind them that while their god doesn't make mistakes, (even though its imaginary) he has a plan, you are a woman, that's what he planned. Then remind them that if he makes no mistakes, and there are already so many people physical/bodily disfigurements then clearly he planned for you to have the wrong body, and put doctors in place to fix that. Dysforia is not a 'mistake' of your mind, it's a mistake of your body. God does that all the time. Even though he doesn't exist, but you gotta pretend that he does for all intents and purposes, sorry. Hope this helped a little...
God doesn't make mistakes? What about the garden of eden with the magic apple and the talking lizard character? What about the flood when god fucked creation up so badly that he had to drown every person in 29,000+ feet of water except moses, his kids and of course chinese people --- along with, for some reason, land animals?
2 year old post. Might make an interesting thread if someone were to start a new post with same topic.
If God doesn't make mistakes, and he made you the way you are.........then you're not a mistake and therefore should be accepted the way you are. But there is no God so.............
But if you want to turn that rhetoric on it's end, and entertain their beliefs, that's the way I'd do it. But they'd be able to fire back with, "this is a choice and he didn't make you this way" etc. To that I'd say.......being an asshole is also a choice and people don't say these people are mistakes.