http://www.atheismuk.com/forum/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=11837.0#po...
http://www.newsweek.com/russian-bombers-taunt-uk-again-fly-781741
The UK is under sustained attack. Putin really dislikes people who draw attention to his true behaviour and policies. One thing I think he hopes for is that the BBC will stop broadcasting in Russia while RT's access to western media is assured. He shows no concern about such harassment of Britain.
From Politico:
The killing of Alexander Litvinenko was “probably approved” by Vladimir Putin. We suspected that already, of course: Your average hired thug doesn’t exactly have access to radioactive polonium, much less use it to murder an FSB defector in broad daylight in the middle of London. Source:
https://www.politico.eu/article/alexander-litvinenko-assassination-vladi...
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Very important story Zeff
What is also true is that the British Conservatives (extreme right) were desperate for anything to bolster their dismal election prospects. Theresa May was looking for something to unite her rapidly fragmenting party and preserve her power and an external boogey man threat is the tried and trusted way to do it.
Last time a stunt like this was pulled the Russians set up the Bulgarians to poison someone, they would hardly be so stupid this time to unleash nerve gas in central london. It smacks of a set up.
("Preserve her power" added)
Couldn't disagree more strongly, OMS. None of these incidents could possibly be a "Tory plot". That is conspiracy theory stuff. I am no supporter of the Conservative Party but all these incidents are consistent with Putin's other actions and policies.
The suggestion is not that he officially or unofficially called for any of these actions. There are many examples on how Putin operates using everything from hacking campaigns to "little green men". It is an asymmetric type of warfare referred to as hybrid warfare.
https://www.fpri.org/article/2016/03/how-why-and-when-russia-will-deploy...
I cannot possibly provide all the links, but I think there is much reading to do to understand what is going on. I am going by reports from respected media like BBC, Economist Magazine, Der Spiegel (English) as well as TV from Al-Jazeera to CNN.
It is of a piece with cyber attacks against Estonia and other instances of Putin aggression. He spends 5% of GDP which Russia can ill afford while many Russians go without services.
If you read about Russia today it is extremely nationalistic and its political opposition is violently oppressed. Again, like the assassination of journalists and Boris Nemsov....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Boris_Nemtsov
.. as I say, I cannot provide all the reading here, but I suggest you look at this far more closely as the approach is, in a sense, the "they came for the Jews" one. Putin is still playing the Great Game and Cold War. He has described the end of the USSR as “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”
Where is the outrage in Russia or by Putin?! Imagine if a "Western country" behaved like that.
If even Litvinenko murder spreading Polonium about London only produces "smacks of a set up", Putin, must be laughing his head off. Many authoritarians will point to this and the election of Trump to argue that democracy doesn't work. Voters are too stupid and must be treated as such.
I think the Economist Magazine puts it best. Putin need give no verbal or written instructions. He has created a violent atmosphere where the type of action that occurs is what he likes to see.
I suppose the Tories invent stories of Russian bombers being intercepted by the RAF too?!
@ ZeffD
So many straw men and so few facts.
Lots of hysteria and no evidence.
All I said was, whatever Putin is about clumsy he isn't. Sophisticated, willing to use third parties, devious, all those things, but direct action this idiotic? No.
The only two people who stand to gain from this is May, shows she is charge and a 'tough leader" and Trump who gets rid of a witness. Also by collateral Mrs Trumble ( who has already jumped ion the "tough leader"/response bandwagon.)
And, lets face reality, the incompetents out of Putin, Trump, Turnbull and May seem to be overwhelmingly not Putin.
A lot of your 'analysis' is correct but that was not my point. Follow the 'money'.
Also ask yourselves, Considering the Litvinenko case, Would you seriously play the same trick?
Unbelievable! (Thanks to Mykcob).
I suppose the Tory Party arranged for the downing of an airliner over E. Ukraine too? Not a fact either, I suppose. I have indicated more facts than enough. Perhaps the authoritarians are right? As Trump said, he could shoot someone and his supporters would still vote for him!..
http://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/search?chn=32430&ctype=videos&doi=2017-...
Believe what you like. I'll follow the vast masses of facts and evidence.
Quote, "The only two people who stand to gain from this is May, shows she is charge and a 'tough leader" and Trump who gets rid of a witness."
What on Earth has Teresa May got to gain from murders on our streets?!!! And Teresa May has no interest in worsening relations with Putin's Russia. The problem she has is that the West can't use Putin's tactics.
Quote, "Also ask yourselves, Considering the Litvinenko case, Would you seriously play the same trick?"
It isn't "a trick" to terrorise Russians on UK territory. It intimidates Putin regime opponents.
@ZffD
Quote, "The only two people who stand to gain from this is May, shows she is charge and a 'tough leader" and Trump who gets rid of a witness.
What on Earth has Teresa May got to gain from murders on our streets?!!!"
Oh...wait...just reverse the order of the above quote, You didn't get it the first time..
Your first paragraph is a straw man.
"Quote, "Also ask yourselves, Considering the Litvinenko case,"
Yes all murders intimidate. The British government and the Americans have long and proud records of elimination of inconvenient truths especially for political gain. They do not come with clean hands.
You, nor I, will ever know the truth of this incident. What is evident is the political capital the Tory establishment is attempting to garner once again.
As I said follow the "money/power"
I don't put much trust in conservatives or tories but in this case, it is highly credible. The UK wouldn't go so far as to expel diplomats for a political win. The fact that the poison used could have only come from a secure Russian government controlled source is evident that Putin ordered the hit. He has become bolder with the rise of stupidity in the west, namely conservatives!
@ Myk
I agree about the stupidity and on that note; Putin is not...an article today in the Irish Times has some very interesting things to say.
There is no straw man in my posts, but OMS makes a serious point...
"You, nor I, will ever know the truth of this incident. What is evident is the political capital the Tory establishment is attempting to garner once again.
As I said follow the "money/power"
As Jeremy Corbyn remorselessly notes: final determinate proof of who did and why will "never" be available. That completely misses the point. This act has to be taken in context of Putin's actions and policies, not simply British Tory ones. If someone is murdered in London nobody wonders if the Italian or Belgian government were behind the murder. Putin is different. He rules Russia by faking election results and murdering journalists. (Again: this is different to other countries).
As I said, don’t just follow the “money/power”. Follow that and the other evidence too.
I again ask OMS to do a very great deal more reading on the subject. And I again repeat that if the British cannot learn anything more than “follow money/power” and “The Tories (or British) are at it again” even from people being murdered in their streets and their country being buzzed by hostile aircraft and cyber attacked, then perhaps the authoritarians like Putin are right. Maybe the plebs are stupid and need to be treated as such. OMS's comments also completely ignores how Putin works. No specific act of violence can be traced to him personally or to the Kremlin. According to them, the Russian soldiers and equipment in E Ukraine is all done privately. "Nothing" to do with Putin.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/unlikely-that-vladimir-putin-behind-s...
Interesting comments by Putin? Like what? (My comments are serious, or perhaps I should start talking of "straw man")
No Putin isn't stupid. He is intellectually bankrupt and deplores the end of the Soviet Union and Russian Communism. It depends on whether that and his (and United Russia's) violence should be seen as "strong". Such tactics are weak to useless in terms of building a strong democracy in Russia.
(Disclosure: I live in Scotland)