Why don’t you believe ?

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Whitefire13's picture
Davi lied. Out and out lied.

Davi lied. Out and out lied. Personally, I like to get to “what is true”. Someone who can lie so easily...do you think their “path” is going to get you to what is true?

Cognostic's picture
@Dave:I "assume that by

@Dave:I "assume that by asking yourself if the Bible is real or not, you are actually trying to figure out the existence of God."

HEY EVERYONE = DAVE IS GOING TO TELL US HOW TO FIGURE OUT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD!!! (Even though it is not what the OP asked. But here we go!!) Let's break this down...

1. RE: "Bible in its historical and scientifical aspects is great," (Um.... "Scientifical" is not actually a word but let's pretend I missed that.) Science in the bible includes things like... A) The Earth is flat. B) Bats are birds. C) Genesis gets it all wrong. D) Global flood E) People living for 900 years. F) Jews exiting Egypt in mass. G) Mustard seeds are the smallest seeds. H) Insects have four legs. I) The Canaanites were annihilated. J)The "firmament" is claimed to be a solid "roof" over the world. K) Stars are tiny objects in the sky that will fall down when Jesus comes back: L) Earth was formed before the Sun.
M) Bats are classified as birds. N) Jacob watered his flocks in front of dark colored sticks, and "And since they bred when they came to drink, the flocks bred in front of the sticks and so the flocks brought forth striped, speckled, and spotted..." (Genesis 30:37-39). O) People living inside big fish. P) Chant of the JW - Exodus 23:25- You shall serve the Lord your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you. Q) She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. Ezekiel 23:20 NIV "Something is wrong with this man! R) Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Leviticus 19:19
S) Bible strictly forbids eating rabbit, shellfish, pork, weasels, scavengers, reptiles, and owls. T) All that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you. Leviticus 9:10 "FUCK - THERE GOES LOBSTER, CRAB, SCALLOPS AND CLAMS! U) NOW THE REALLY FUCKED UP STUFF ABOUT WOMEN... When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days. FILTHY WOMEN!!!! Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20 V) When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "ITS YOUR FUCKING BIBLE!" W) LIKE THIS IS SCIENTIFIC --- "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. Matthew 21:18-22 NIV X) In the New Testament Jesus never says owning people is wrong. Instead, the Bible gives explicit instructions to masters and slaves. Y) There are 35 different offenses that earn a person capital punishment in the Bible. Hint: You probably qualify. Z) FUCK PSYCHOLOGY OR REHABILITATION. STUPID SCIENCE - If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die."

1. The birth of Jesus. 2. Jews enslaved in Egypt. 3. The Chronology of family lineage. 4. No evidence for the existence of Moses. 5. King David did not have a kingdom. 6. If there was a Nazareth is is not on maps and it was nothing but a tiny hamlet. 7. There are thousands of manuscripts disagreeing with each other wildly in what verses and even books they contain, and how those verses read.-
8. The River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13) 9. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7) 9. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
10. E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings. 11. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua. 1I) No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt 12) Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then. 13) Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26). 14) Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings. 15) Jesus as a historical figure is not mentioned by any contemporary non-Christian writers. 16) Matt 2:1 says Jesus was born in the reign of Herod, who died 4 BC. Luke 2:2 says he was born during Quirinus' governorship of Syria, which began 6 AD. 18) There is no contemporary historical confirmation of darkness covering the earth at the crucifixion (Matt 27:35, Luke 23:44). 19) There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the slaughter of the innocents by Herod (Matt 2:16-18). Josephus, whose history contains much criticism of Herod, does not mention it. 20) There is no contemporary historical confirmation of the graves opening and the dead appearing to many at the crucifixion (Matt 27:52-53). THIS JUST GOES ON AND ON AND ON AND ON......


Cognostic's picture
@DAVE: Oh hell.... with all

@DAVE: Oh hell.... with all that previous bullshit... I completely forgot you were going to prove God existed. Let's skip over the BS and try to find that exact information.....

HERE IT IS --- "First, even if you had all the information in the world corroborating the Bible, it still wouldn't be enough for you to believe in God, because true faith doesn't come through rationalization, but through the operation of the Holy Spirit."

TRANSLATION: "fuck all the facts and evidence - you just have to believe."

Now you get a bunch of idiotic bible quotes...... COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLOCKS!!!!

David Killens's picture
Thank you mods, for dealing

Thank you mods, for dealing with this dishonest trespasser.

FYI Cog,his name is Davi. It is pronounced https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO1OnL-AUBE

Cognostic's picture
@David: Sorry :-) You

@David: Sorry :-) You know us monkeys!

David Killens's picture
* Slips Cog a banana laced

* Slips Cog a banana laced with Viagra. *

That will keep him busy as he fucks the jungle and anything within reach.

Italianish's picture
Hey thank you everyone for

Hey thank you everyone for your help.
I have been doing my own research and have gone out of my way to buy books with the little money I have. So far I have purchased 2.
I’ve done research through the internet.
Because of my Christian conditioned mind as well as difficulty finding certain sources due to the facts that 1. Christianity has taken over the internet and their claims on the authenticity of the Bible being purely truth has a lot of their own “compelling evidence” anything on the opposite side of these truth claims sometimes looks like to me”the devil did it” or that 2. these opposing arguments against the Bible being true even by said atheists are still not true in relation to
Some of the resources members here have given me directly.
It’s all very difficult with a mind like mine.
I haven’t begun to scratch the surface of most things that I have tried to do for myself it’s all rather difficult for me because of the way my mind was left in a heap of ruin due to Christianity among other things I struggle with.
I don’t want to sound like a weak man, we all have our own issues, we all may deal with them
In different ways.
It’s been an uphill battle, I do appreciate all the help from everyone and I don’t want to come off as I am not doing anything for myself.. I’m doing the best I can. And I believe down the line it will be truly of good reward for myself.
Thank you.
Oh and I don’t believe sometimes because I’ve found contradictions as to the ascension after the resurrection of Jesus, one way he ascended on the day he rose. Luke 24 and Mark 16.
8 days after his resurrection he ascended into heaven John 20, many days Acts 13 and in 40 days after his resurrection he ascended into heaven Acts 1.
This isn’t my only reason I will be back eventually when I’m successful in my freedom from religion to give some other reasons why.

David Killens's picture
@ Italianish

@ Italianish

My position is that one does not even need to go to the resurrection stuff, this bible is full of lies, fallacies, and inconsistencies. You do not have to look hard. And if there are blatant contradictions in the bible, it cannot be trusted for anything.

But my friend, I do understand that for you at this time, the many years of conditioning are clouding you perceptions. It is a painful, long, and hard process to cast aside religion and develop a sane outlook on life and reality.

Just keep working at it, for most atheists the final outcome is one of liberation from mental slavery and fear.

Cognostic's picture
@Italianish: You mention

@Italianish: You mention buying books and not having much money.
Thriftbooks.com Get cheap used books in great condition for half the price. I really recommend this site.

As I live in a foreign country there will be a day when I have to get rid of my books. I can't carry them all back home on a plane. I have always been aware of this and so when I do buy books. I get them for free online or I purchase them as cheaply as possible. Thriftbooks is a very good source.

Italianish's picture

That was a great answer to
Davi, as well as a great answer for me.
I purchased a audible book by David Fitzgerald. He spoke of the nativity of Jesus being in two different times.
@david killens
Thank you for being understanding and compassionate toward me about this.
I can’t wait to be human again.. life seems the more difficult living out false identity.
I am agnostic atheist, but under circumstances that i sure maybe all of us faced while trying to get out.. I stilll go back
And believe from time to time.
Sometimes I tell myself “even tho I am a real man, I should still believe in Jesus blindly so that I don’t perish” etc...
I actually like thinking critically upon authentic evidence in order to form a belief. Believing in myself is better because I know I’m capable of doing beautiful things, and if I mess up hey mistakes allow a person to learn and grow.

David Killens's picture
@ Italianish

@ Italianish

Even today, after leaving organized religion fifty years ago and allowing my conditioning to dissipate, religion is still part of my thought process.

When I am faced with moral decisions, I often ask myself "What would jesus do?". Not that I believe some dude walked on water, but it is a good reference point for my decisions.

But the fear part, the threat of hell? I got past that completely, and as I implied, it was an amazing liberation. It was like a slave having his shackles released and told he was free.

How come it doesn't bother me? Because I hold to the belief that even if there is a god and hell, just being a moral and good person will get me there. And if that isn't good enough, then I was always fucked.

Because according to many christian sects, the despicable and evil mass murderer Ted Bundy is in heaven because he recanted, and Anne Frank is in hell. How fucked is that? Something has to be wrong with that set of rules.

LogicFTW's picture
Easy to make up rules in an

Easy to make up rules in an imaginary game, based on only imagination.

Also easy to conclude those rules are completely bullshit.

For a while I tried to stop saying "god damn it" or "jesus" (as a stand in for "oh shit!") Usually with the accompanying f bomb. Now I switched it up and say that stuff all the time. Not because I believe in it, but because its actually a bit cathartic to blame an imaginary sky daddy idea, that lots of people do believe in, and those same people may even get upset that "you used his name in vain" which brings an inner smile to my face every time.

Whitefire13's picture
Jesus fuckin’ Christ!!!

Jesus fuckin’ Christ!!! Thanks for reducing my language usage to some juvenile rebellion!

I like the way it feels...

Whitefire13's picture
I’ve lived my physical life

I’ve lived my physical life “in the cold”

Looking forward to the warm and association awaiting me ;)

Calilasseia's picture
I'll step in here and present

I'll step in here and present a brief exposition of my reasons for not treating unsupported mythological assertions uncritically as fact, in the manner that so many mythology fanboys do. I'll start by stating the obvious - namely, it's precisely because mythological assertions are completely bereft of support, that I regard them as intrinsically discardable, in accordance with the proper rules of discourse, which, sadly, the typical pedlars of apologetics here not only regard themselves and their assertions as exempt from, but seem to take a perverse delight in deliberately flouting. Quite simply, anyone who thinks regurgitating the very same mythological assertions that are completely bereft of genuine evidential support, or peddling lame apologetic fabrications that an astute five year old would point and laugh at (in my travels, I've encountered many such examples), will make me regard their mythologies as anything other than mythologies, is in for a rude awakening.

Indeed, it's precisely because I've spent a good part of my adult life learning how rigorous discourse is conducted, in the empirical sciences and pure mathematics, that I regard apologetics as beneath contempt, even before seeing some of the more ludicrous examples thereof being peddled as if they constituted some spectacular brand of "wisdom". As a consequence of that background, and the relevant observational data provided in quantity by the usual suspects, I take the view that said individuals wouldn't recognise rigorous discourse if it backed an M1A2 Abrams main battle tank into their ribcages. In particular, pedlars of the fatuous "design" assertion manifestly have no idea what is required, to convert that assertion into something other than the product of their rectal passages, and no, I'm not going to spoon feed the usual suspects and do their homework for them - if they can't work out the requisite details from first principles as I have, then I'm not going to given them the easy ride they manifestly seek on the matter whenever this issue arises.

Then of course, we have the fact that the mythologies so beloved by these individuals, are manifestly untrustworthy, courtesy of the fact that they contain risible errors of an elementary variety. If your mythology was written by people who were too stupid to count correctly the number of legs that an insect possesses, a fact discernible by an astute five year old, or written by people who thought genetics was controlled by coloured sticks, then I am under no obligation to treat seriously any of the fantastic claims for these mythologies as purported "sources of wisdom" from the usual suspects. That's before we cover such farces as the "global flood" nonsense, or the "Fall of Man" drivel that is a crock to anyone who understands the most elementary principles of both ethics and jurisprudence, or the manner in which the "creation myth" assertions are completely ass-backwards with respect to actual scientific discoveries. Anyone who thinks that these assorted instances of rampant idiocy constitute "fact", are less deserving of serious consideration than my tropical fish.

All of the above, of course, constitute substantive reasons for discarding the requisite assertions, even before we recognise that belief, as practised by mythology fanboys, is nothing more than uncritical acceptance of unsupported assertions, and as such, is a grave offence against the rules of proper discourse that should invalidate any appeal thereto in various species of tiresome apologetics, which at bottom, I regard as nothing more than the attempt to conjure wish-fulfilment fantasy into existence by the deployment of sophistical elisions treated as magic spells. And all of this, yet again, is before we consider the instances of discoursive duplicity that are routinely observed to be a part of the mythology fanboy modus operandi.

But, there is more, and as an insight into that expansive vista, I shall now provide the following.

In the decade that I have been observing, and in some instances, countering apologetic duplicity from the usual suspects, I have learned so much about the progress scientists have made in fields such as evolutionary biology and cosmological physics. I am fortunate to live in an age, where I can collect and digest at leisure, hundreds if not thousands of scientific papers, documenting in meticulous detail the research work of the authors, and I can perform this gathering of knowledge with no more effort than it takes to press a mouse button a few times. Of course, the real hard work starts when one reads the papers in question, but I was fortunate enough to have a truly wonderful science education, dispensed to me by an utterly stellar collection of teachers, the like of which I fear we may not see again for generations. The gift they bestowed upon me, enabling me to scan extant research and understand that research, is quite simply priceless. The benefits thereof transcend any mere, vulgar monetary calculation.

At this juncture, some might assert that I ought to offer some token of gratitude to the miscreants, who provided the motivation to labour diligently in this vein in order to destroy their canards. This is to miss the point entirely, namely, that if said miscreants had been given the power to convert their febrile and sleazy fantasies into policy, the ability to perform said diligent labour would have been denied to me, and the education I received would have been killed at source. That diligent labour is, in a sense, a repayment of the debt I owe to those stellar teachers, and those researchers, who toil honestly to keep the light of knowledge and understanding burning brightly, and who in some cases amplify that light to supernova levels of brilliance.

As a corollary, I regard the maintenance of proper discourse, as a small but necessary duty, in order to be a part of that preservation of illumination, even though my part may seem insignificant alongside the contributions of the true giants in the requisite fields, upon whose shoulders I gratefully sit. I will almost certainly never be a candidate for even a minor award, let alone anything as prestigious as a Nobel, but the work of those thus exalted, and the blood, sweat and tears they shed whilst treading the long path to that recognition, should be compelling stories of real achievement we pass on to our children, exhorting them to follow their example. Alongside their endeavours and their findings, the assertions of mythology, and the sometimes farcical nonsense peddled therein by the authors thereof as purportedly constituting historical fact, wither in impotence and inadequacy by comparison.

This much became obvious to me at just six years of age, even if I was then unable to expound the thought in the prose I now deploy. At that age, I had access to The Children's Encyclopaedia, a ten volume work edited by one Arthur Mee. His project aimed to provide a repository of knowledge, compiled by some of the best scholars and pedagogical experts extant in his day. But at this juncture, it must be said that in my case, his wish for that project failed in one respect. Mee, typically Edwardian in outlook and approach, wanted his work to the the basis upon which the generation of fine, upstanding Englishmen, avowed disciples of God, King and Country, was to be accomplished - his work was quite clearly intended to be a training manual for the Sons of Empire.

He failed in that aim, because he made one fatal mistake.

He arranged his ten volume opus, in such a manner that direct comparison could be made between science and religion.

The science sections, obsolete though they may be in the present era, were written in compelling style, a style that presented a message that I, as a child, lapped up eagerly. Namely, that one didn't have to accept uncritically the words of the authors, that their material was as they claimed it to be, but instead, one could go forth oneself, and experiment in order to find out for oneself that the facts in question were genuine, observable facts. The message in those science sections was clear: the wonders of Nature await you - go forth and embrace them. Telescope and microscope in hand, the universe is yours. How wonderfully inspiring was that!

The religion section, by contrast, was dismal. "Here are some assertions, treat them uncritically as fact", was the message arising from those pages. It was almost as if Mee secretly and perversely wanted to undermine his stated mission, by making it so easy to observe that dismal contrast. On the one hand, pages that exhorted their readers to go forth and learn with passion and vigour, on the other, pages that effectively said "don't bother asking questions". It should not be difficult to deduce which of those pages I paid most attention to!

Quite simply, those pages made science a thing of majesty and glory, the rocket that would take me to the stars, whilst religion looked more like prison. And I was able to make that determination at six years of age, thanks to Arthur Mee.

My message to the mythology fanboys is this. You have missed out on so much genuine knowledge. What has been kept from you, and denied to you by the pedlars of mere mythology, should make you regard their actions as criminal. You have been offered trinkets and baubles as a pathetic substitute for the keys to the cosmos. In short, you have been robbed of a rightful inheritance.

Take the first steps now to seek reparations for that robbery.

LogicFTW's picture
Excellent post as always

Excellent post as always Calilasseia.

The very best prisons are the ones that people are not aware of.

Religion has pulled that off for many of its followers quite neatly.


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