Atheist going to heaven?

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xenoview's picture
Atheist going to heaven?

The pope is reaching for atheist going to heaven, if they don't believe in god.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-ath...

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Grinseed's picture
I think Frank has a little

I think Frank has a little fight on his hands with other Catholic clerics.
I had an online discussion with a Jesuit priest about morality a few years ago.
He of course insisted that because I was an atheist I had no true morality and was bound for hell.
I explained that as a humanist I had modest habits, no smoking, no drugs, no drinking, no gambling, I regularly contributed to charities, helped out neighbours, and had a generally humane approach to others, but I did not think I was going to either heaven or hell.
The Jesuit aggressively dismissed my humanist actions, and insisted that I was only doing good works for the glory of my own ego and not the glory of his god and as I lacked the requisite faith I was most certainly bound for hell anyway.
The Catholic Church is a broad church indeed.
This is not the first time Francis has made generous claims about who can expect to go to heaven and he has copped the expected flack for it. Whatever he offers today might be reversed by the next elected pope when he is gone, but in the meantime I know of at least one Jesuit priest whose head has exploded.

ilovechloe's picture
"The Jesuit aggressively

@ Grinseed wrote: "The Jesuit aggressively dismissed my humanist actions, and insisted that I was only doing good works for the glory of my own ego and not the glory of his god and as I lacked the requisite faith I was most certainly bound for hell anyway."

Most religious people only do good works so they can look good to other religious people & 'god'. They are doing it because they hope to be 'rewarded' in the 'afterlife'. Not much difference in the reason for doing good works if you ask me!

I would say that the reason for an atheist doing good works is more sincere than the religious person, who does it for their 'reward' after death.

Grinseed's picture
From the Jewish tradition of

From the Jewish tradition of the Kabbalah, a rabbi instructs his student as to why their god created atheists. He explains that atheists who help others serve as examples of selfless charity because they expect no afterlife reward like the faithful. Then he goes on to suggest that when someone tells of their troubles and begs for help, one should not offer to pray for them but rather, be like an atheist, beleive there is no god to help and acutally fucking do something to assist.
Better to just be an atheist all the time, its less confusing.

I confess I added the colourful language. "Fucking" is not found in Kabbalah writings.

cranky47's picture
@xenoview

@xenoview

"The pope is reaching for atheist going to heaven, if they don't believe in god."

That's not what he said : “You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience."

If he had meant atheists can go to heaven, he would have used those words.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-ath...

. The claim contradicts Church dogma :

John 14:16 " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

I think it may have been John Paul 11, who said an atheist can go to heaven IN THOSE WORDS, but I'm not sure.

Cognostic's picture
@xenoview: Your reference

@xenoview: Your reference article was Wednesday 11 September 2013 18:16/

Did Pope Francis Say Atheists Go to Heaven? Not Exactly?
https://www.jashow.org/articles/did-pope-francis-say-atheists-go-to-heav...

LogicFTW's picture
Per usual, they shroud it in

Per usual, they shroud it in vague terms, so they are not held accountable to anyone. They get to say something that sounds "nice" and generous on their part. But is ridiculous in reality/practicality.

One of my very favorite debates about religious matters is on heaven or hell. I feel theist has really painted themselves into a corner on this one.

In short, eithir:
- the various god ideas, god is obviously an asshole that tortures people for eternity (or at the very least denied entrance to heaven for eternity) for not doing something that vast majority of people knew nothing about. (Majority of everyone, most of whom are completely innocent going to hell.)
- OR -
the various god ideas does not require faith in any particular god idea, (including atheist position,) to make it into heaven and/or avoid hell. Basically negating the reason to be faithful to any particular god idea at all.

Toss on that these various human made concepts: god, heaven and hell are completely unevidenced, and the whole thing starts getting really comical. The major stick and carrot for various religion ideas are not only completely unevidenced, but also completely impractical, eithir their god idea is quite evil/malicious in theory, (why worship a theorized evil god,) or their god idea does not give a shit what people do, (why follow any particular religion?) Free up the time spent on religion for things you rather do because following any particular religion/god-idea does not matter ultimately.

Of course the actual answer is: there is zero reason to think any of the various god ideas presented with zero actual evidence are in any way real. Negating the need to have a conversation about heaven/hell/god at all in any meaningful way.

I do not fear any of the various god ideas. However, history does tell us to fear the humans with a god idea in their head. Fortunately in my part of the world at this time violence done by humans based on religion motive is very minimal.

Algebe's picture
Well thanks, Frank. But if

Well thanks, Frank. But if heaven if full of people like you and your hierarchy, I think I'll pass. I have standards, even if you don't. But do say hi to Adolf, Josef, Benito, and all the other good Xtians up there.

cranky47's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

Old joke;

Nun in a class of seven year olds ; 'Hands up all those who want to go to heaven"

One hand is not raised.

Nun: "Why Jimmy, don't you want to go to heaven ?"

Jimmy; "Not if that lot is going"

Pretty much how I feel after an encounter with the latest humourless shower we get here. Much like Groucho Marx ; "I don't want to belong to any club that will have me as a member"

"Heaven for the climate. Hell for the company" (Mark Twain)

Tin-Man's picture
I just want to know if all

I just want to know if all dogs go to heaven. Because if there are no dogs in heaven, then I definitely prefer to go elsewhere. Hey, maybe God could just send me to wherever the dogs go? Quick! Somebody! What is the hotline number to the Pope? I have questions!

Cognostic's picture
Tin: Not to worry. You are

Tin: Not to worry. You are most certainly going to the place where all the dogs go.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "You are most

@Cog Re: "You are most certainly going to the place where all the dogs go."

Ummmm.... Ya know, the way you said that, I'm not really sure whether I should feel complimented or insulted... *scratching head*...

xenoview's picture
Thank you for the links.

Thank you for the links.

Cognostic's picture
@xenoview: *Expression of

@xenoview: *Expression of Shock!* You got links!!? Not from Old Man I hope. Those links are made of road kill; Raccoon Opossum, Lizard, Country frog, coyote and occasionally the neighbor's dog. DON'T EAT THEM LINKS!

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