I challenge the theists on this site to come up with a (sensible) explanation/reasoning of the following:
1. The Earth is not flat(the bible suggests this at points)
2. The Earth is not 6,000 - 10,000 years old
3. The Earth was not formed in 6 24 hour periods
4. The Exodus has no archeological or historical evidence outside the bible
5. The bible condones genocide
6. Deontological codes are inherently imperfect and unjust systems of ethics
7. Many prophecies of the bible failed to come to fruition
8. The bible contradicts itself on certain doctrines on numerous occasions
9. The miracles in the bible are not possible
10. Christian religions have historically been extremely violent and sects of particular Christians still kill one another as they have done for centuries. This is counter to the instructions contained within the Pentateuch
11. There is no consensus on "Christian truth", as evidenced by the huge number of denominations who assert their interpretations of the bible as an exclusivist truth
12. A God who is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent by definition foresaw and willingly chose any and all paradigms which exist, meaning that prohibitions against intrinstic natural phenomena like homosexuality or sexual promiscuity are diametrically oppositional to the paradigms which God himself chose. God is a self-contradictory tyrant in that regard.
13. If God is omnipotent yet suffering exists, God is not omnibenevolent. If God is omnibenevolent yet suffering exists, God is not omnipotent. If God is not omnibenevolent then he is malevolent (why worship him?) and if God is not omnipotent, then he is in some or many ways impotent (again, why worship him?)
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Well this is gonna be a fun thread
In the words of Disturbed:
"So let the war begin!
Your far from innocent
Hell, I just don't know wen it will end!
You are the one to blame .
You've made a habit of fucking up my life!"
Ironically (and, perhaps, appropriately) the title of the song I pulled those lyrics form is "Deceiver".
(Entering theological mode)
"I challenge the theists on this site to come up with a (sensible) explanation/reasoning of the following:"
"1. The Earth is not flat(the bible suggests this at points)"
It's not, I don't believe. If the earth was flat, why did Christ spend "three days and three nights" in "the heart (some translations "center") of the earth?"
"2. The Earth is not 6,000 - 10,000 years old"
Um...I never believed it was? I'm still trying to understand wether or not evolution is true, or STILL just a theory.
"3. The Earth was not formed in 6 24 hour periods"
The days of creation were metaphorical (that's my belief).
"4. The Exodus has no archeological or historical evidence outside the bible"
Didn't they find the ten commandments with seemingly "Lazer inscribed words" in Iraq (I think it was Iraq)?
"5. The bible condones genocide"
Never(to my knowledge). It condones the execution of G-d's judgment upon wicked people. And I think that only one or two "genocides" occur (I put quotation marks because the human race is still alive). One is the flood, and I forget what I thought the other one was. Read this if you're willing,
http://www.accessv.com/~rjchin/proof/canaan.htm
"6. Deontological codes are inherently imperfect and unjust systems of ethics"
I don't see how... Clarification?
"7. Many prophecies of the bible failed to come to fruition"
Again, clarification?
"8. The bible contradicts itself on certain doctrines on numerous occasions"
No it does not. Tell me which doctrines you speak of, and I can explain it.
"9. The miracles in the bible are not possible"
Hence, the "miracles." It Is something that G-d only can do. How else do you suppose they happen? Aliens?
"10. Christian religions have historically been extremely violent and sects of particular Christians still kill one another as they have done for centuries. This is counter to the instructions contained within the Pentateuch"
The actions of other Christians does not define all other Christians. The thing is, one can SAY that G-d said to do something, but wether or not G-d DID say anything is what matters. If G-d did not command the killing and warring, then those who did it are not true christians.
"11. There is no consensus on "Christian truth", as evidenced by the huge number of denominations who assert their interpretations of the bible as an exclusivist truth"
That's the fault of the believers, not G-d or Christ. If the Denominational views contradict the bible, then they are wrong. The bible contains the Christian truths, not the traditions or doctrines of men.
"12. A God who is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent by definition foresaw and willingly chose any and all paradigms which exist, meaning that prohibitions against intrinstic natural phenomena like homosexuality or sexual promiscuity are diametrically oppositional to the paradigms which God himself chose. God is a self-contradictory tyrant in that regard."
Self-contradictory? You'd have to explain that a little more.
This "natural" homosexuality is actually not natural. G-d intended for men and women to become one with each other. That is, men with women and women with men. There was no "gay" or "lesbian." I'm not trying to use the "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" argument, but that's how it's comin out.
Having frequent intimate relations with any other people all the time is not in accordance with G-d's created order (one man, one woman. Polygamy is a different story), and promiscuity spreads STDs don't it?
"13. If God is omnipotent yet suffering exists, God is not omnibenevolent."
You think He does not know the suffering of humans? Suffering did NOT exist until MAN made it exist. It's called "abuse of free will."
"If God is omnibenevolent yet suffering exists, God is not omnipotent."
This is incorrect because G-d has given men the ability to stop suffering, yet we don't do it. The fault goes on men.
"If God is not omnibenevolent then he is malevolent (why worship him?) and if God is not omnipotent, then he is in some or many ways impotent (again, why worship him?)"
Again, He made it possible to stop suffering, yet we don't do it. He gives all men their lot. And satan has power (not Almighty power) all throughout the world, causing suffering through the free will of men. Are men without excuse then? No. Men have a choice, to say yes or to say no. It's their choice, and the law of sin that dwells within them that they put themselves under (even unintentionally) works with their corrupted body of sin to create evil and suffering. Men are the fault, not G-d. Men are "radically depraved" and worthy of condemnation for the evil they make. G-d has said that He will punish the guilty. He is just patient with them, not wanting them to suffer the punishment that G-d's Holy and Just attributes demand, but wanting all men to come to repentance. THAT is G-d's greatest love for us. His love is not "be who you wanna be" or "do what you wanna do." It's "be Holy, as I am Holy." This Holiness comes through obedience towards G-d. He is all powerful. Just because no one sees His power doesn't mean He's not. The Gospel of Christ is the power of G-d to salvation for everyone who believes.
@Hawk Flint
Every one of your responses to the Op were and are justifications and re-interpretations. Take what YOU decided a "day" means in genesis. It has always meant a 24 hour period until it was proven that is an impossibility. So christians re-interpreted the definition of a "day."
Not justifications, reasons.
"This "natural" homosexuality is actually not natural. G-d intended for men and women to become one with each other."
So you think that gay people choose that lifestyle just to spite god? From my observations, that's actually a very tough road to walk because of all the prejudice and hatred from religious bigots. I can't imagine anyone choosing it on a whim. If god exists, it must love gays and idiots. There are a lot of them.
"promiscuity spreads STDs don't it?"
Why don't you ask the Bible? Abraham had sex with a slave while married to Sarah. David had sex with Beersheba (and probably Jonathan, too). Solomon had 1,000 wives. Lot had sex with his daughters (after first offering them to the people of Sodom). Did any of them get an STD, or even a smack over the hand from god?
@ Hawk Flint
What's with the use of "G-d" instead of "God"?
"Take what YOU decided a "day" means in genesis. It has always meant a 24 hour period until it was proven that is an impossibility. So christians re-interpreted the definition of a "day."" -Mykcob
Maybe because they realized that the original interpretation was WRONG. And until I'm done researching this "days of creation is not 24 hours" thing, that is my answer.
"So you think that gay people choose that lifestyle just to spite god? From my observations, that's actually a very tough road to walk because of all the prejudice and hatred from religious bigots. I can't imagine anyone choosing it on a whim. If god exists, it must love gays and idiots. There are a lot of them."-Algebe
Yes, He does love the gays and idiots, He wants them to come to repentance. And I disagree with the hate spewing religious people out there.
"Why don't you ask the Bible? Abraham had sex with a slave while married to Sarah. David had sex with Beersheba (and probably Jonathan, too). Solomon had 1,000 wives. Lot had sex with his daughters (after first offering them to the people of Sodom). Did any of them get an STD, or even a smack over the hand from god?"
-Algebe
"Sex slave"? Seriously?! She became His WIFE, not a sex slave. Sarah OWNED the slave that she had, and after giving her to Abraham to build a family through her, she was elevated to an almost equal status to Sarah.
I said that polygamy was a different matter. Polygamy was used to make alliances with other kingdoms, or to preserve family lines etc.
"What's with the use of "G-d" instead of "God"?" -The Pragmatic
I started to wonder if the Jews were right and Putting the "O" in the word "god" when I'm talking about G-d, and then erasing it might be wrong, so I decided to play it safe. Besides, it kinda looks cool to me.
"Maybe because they realized that the original interpretation was WRONG."
Or, or, the original interpretation was right, AND TOU BLAGARDS ARE JUST COVINGBYOUR TRACKS!