So, I don't want to make this too long, but I am 26, and am deconverting from Christianity right now. I have tried to do it before but it has such a grip on me and is so embedded that this is going to be a struggle and I need support. I was a Christian kid, went atheist at 13, came back to Christianity at 18, left at 23 for a week, and just came right back to it for fear of hell. The fear of hell combined with my struggles with staying sober (I'm in recovery from substance addiction) and also my mental health problems (I get really depressed about death and the meaninglessness of life without a God to give it a purpose) have made me dependent on it. I had alcoholics anonymous drilled into my head and it convinced me that without a God I could not stay sober, and that did not help. I have had some very sunny, mountaintop moments with Christianity, and I've also had hellish moments and been suicidal because of it. I want to leave because the only reason I'd been staying was the fear of hell. I have all but lost my sanity. In 2015, I wound up in a psychiatric hospital after writing a blog that 3,000 people read (I checked the views after I got out) saying all this insane stuff about God, because my religious beliefs basically gave me schizophrenia. I started hearing voices in 2012, during a period of insomnia caused by nearly constant panic attacks about my eternal fate. I had prayed "God, please show me what is going to happen to me" and the same night I had a dream where I went to hell, and since the Bible talks about dreams, I couldn't chalk it up to just a nightmare, and slept about an hour a night for the next eight months, all the while losing my mind with fear. I always had mental illness issues but Christianity gave me severe mental health problems, and I'm miserable and want to get away from and start my journey to recovery now.
The problem is, I don't know if I can get the "God" thing out of my head. It's pretty firmly fixed. I would have a really hard time convincing myself that he doesn't exist. I also worry about going back to substance abuse and depression and my old bad habits of being a jerky, all around crappy person. I don't even have like a moral system apart from "God", and I have no idea who I really am. I went to Bible college for a year and was very devoted. I don't even have an identity apart from the "God" I am trying to stop believing in. And I know only one thing about myself really, and that is that I am a super mean crappy person, and religion was the only thing keeping me in check. I don't know how to be happy and decent without fear.
But, I would like to try. I would like to try to be moral without religion, and happy without it, and sober. And I don't want to rely on it anymore because it's like a medication for my problems with insanely bad side effects, schizophrenia and general mental illness in my case. It's helped me in some ways, but hurt me and my loved ones really badly in others.
So, I'm reaching out for support. Most arguments against the existence of God don't really convince me, but I want them to, so I can heal and be free. I feel like my relationship with God is an abusive one that I can't leave out of fear for my life and wellbeing.
I view it as an addiction-like thing, where I'll have withdrawal effects like depression, and also have the strong urge to relapse because I'll remember the good times and forget how awful the negatives were.
One crock of bullshit that I have been fed and have a gut feeling isn't true, but still am trying to un-believe is this:
That without God nobody's heart can truly be happy or satisfied. Atheists are made out by Christians to be angry, unhappy, prone to divorce, immoral, and miserable.
Sorry if that offends anybody. Not trying to. It's actually pretty funny. Christians, especially lifelong ones, practically view atheists as aliens, and they get curious about them. Like how do they live without God? How do they have morals? How do they find happiness? One of my loved ones is like this.
Coming out as non-religious is gonna be hard. I am married to a Pentecostal Christian man, and his whole family is that way, and I live at their house. Just learned of that term recently. Gay folks use the term, and I just recently heard it applied to deconverting.
Thanks for reading this.
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Moving to Atheist Hub...
Edit...moving to Debate Room as OP is non-atheist and will not be able to post in the Hub.
Welcome to AR.
I moved your post since the Area you originally posted it in is for issues with the site itself.
You may want to read “Coming Out Atheist” by Greta Christina. It may help.
Please feel free to lean on the members here. Many have made the the same journey you’re on and will provide a lot of help, advice, and support.
Oh okay, sorry. My mistake. Will do!
I personally was never very religious so I do not know how strongly I can relate. However in my young 20's I did suffer from nihilism, (basically nothing matters.) I did struggle with that for a while without even having a name for it.
After a lot of thought I realized: no heaven, no hell, no god, no meaning, is not scary, it is the ultimate freedom.
I realized with the absence of "meaning to life" I was free to make my own meaning. Free to decide for my self what is important, what makes life worth living and what makes me happy. With no requirements set on me I went about doing just that, and now I consider my self the happiest, most satisfied, at peace person I know. I sleep well every night, I do not have regrets.
Another piece that helped me is: the realization that I do not fear death, I only fear dying, sure I worry about the people I leave behind while I am alive, but when I am dead it truly does not matter. So avoid the dying/harm part, but don't fear death we will all die eventually, and with no afterlife there is nothing to fear there. I am never suicidal, not even remotely suicidal. My short life where I have control over my meaning, is far to precious to me as it is the whole of me since there is no afterlife.
No idea if any of this is helpful, I know for my own journey hearing these ideas might of helped speed up the process for me, but it is something I would of had to come to conclusions on, all on my own.
I can relate in a way to death not being the scary thing, only dying. The dying process can be full of fear and depression for many. But once the process is over, since hell doesn't exist (I'm saying that despite fear right now), nobody has anything to worry about. It's like sleep without dreaming I guess.
I don't really trust myself because of my past and the obsession I've had with it due to Christianity and the repentance thing, and also just the Bible and its assertions about human nature have drilled it into my head that I'm naturally bad and incapable of being good without fear keeping me away from actions that hurt others.
I guess time and some leaning on others who are supportive is the only way to get through this. I'd love to get where you're at. Thanks for your response.
You are welcome ChristianityDestroyedMySanity always happy to share my thoughts to people interested in them.
I think working on trusting yourself would be a good place to start, which is often times quite difficult, my only suggestion is to start small with faster easier goals to build up self confidence, that eventually leads to trusting yourself with greater things. One that I am always working on, and continue to work on is "being your word, especially to yourself." Which is as simple as it sounds, and as hard to pull off truly as it sounds.
You mentioned your struggles with alcohol in your original post. I have a close family member that struggles with alcohol so I have done a fair amount of reading and thought on it. You are not alone in your struggles (you probably already knew that) and many many people, struggle with alcohol. I don't think you are looking for advice here on alcohol, but I do recommend you divorce your struggle with alcohol from your struggles with religion. It is obvious the various alcohol abuse programs (religious or not) are at best only marginally effective, with god related alcohol programs having roughly the same effectiveness rates as non god related ones.
Small goals working up to bigger goals is a good idea.
Yeah I think so too, that I should disconnect religion from what keeps me sober. I've been deluded so long about how "together" I really am, and how much I've "improved". I tried to end my life in January, and I've been drinking sporadically since I turned 21. Despite this stuff I still went on believing I was better off Christian and improved and doing much better when in reality I was a mess, the same mess I'd always been.
I am doing a bit better than I was as a teenager, but I think everybody is that way lol. Its just called growing up and maturing. But I still have a ton of the same problems.
I'll be reading these comments from everyone over and over as I try to get my mind un-brainwashed, especially during weak moments. Thanks for taking the time to talk.
Religion sucks, it teaches you that you are full of sin, and only the fear of hell is what keeps you in line. Guess what, it's all crap. You have the capacity to be a "good" person, and you won't find it in any bible. Just look at how it's really f--ked you up so far.
I don't think you are a crappy person, it's just that religion has made you believe you are a piece of shit. You aren't, and you proved it by reaching out for help.
Let me tell you about death and fear. Fear hurts you, death doesn't. In Dec 10th, 2010 I was wheeled into an operating room under emergency conditions, I knew it was very serious, the odds were that I would die. I had no fear, the only thought I had was, "OK, if I wake up, I'm good. If I don't, I won't even know". There was no fear, I was very calm, ready to face whatever happened.
I am an atheist and I believe my morals are superior to any theist. And they are very simple, do no harm, and treat others as if it was you.
You are just 26 and you have a lot more years ahead of you. The first 1/3 of your life was pretty crappy because of religion, make the remaining 2/3 wonderful without religion.
You will find that there are many wonderful and very caring people in here, atheists like me who actually give a crap, people who sincerely care about you. All I can say it is, hang in there, it will get better. And one day (I hope sooner rather than later) you will find the type of happiness and peace I have found, without religion f--king everything up.
Life is good.
It did beat guilt and shame into me pretty deep.
I'm ready to enjoy my life without emotional turmoil all the time.
I guess I'm so ready to be happy and so sick of pain that I'm wanting to rush and be fully recovered and moved on. But that will not work, and will probably end badly if I don't just take my time and not be so anxious to have a great life. And I actually have a good life right now, I have a lot of good things in life going for me that I haven't been able to enjoy because of this religious hell I've been in.
Glad there are people that care to lean on. Doing it alone would be hard.
I am so sad to see someone suffer like this over religion. I dealt with religion for years and really really relied on it to guide my life. To prevent boring you and everyone else in here, I will just recommend this. You studied your way into religion, and you will need to study yourself out of it.
Seems you already know religion is a crutch, and that may be what you needed at some time in the past. But now that you started on your road to learning, you are beginning to see truth. Continue with it. Try to focus on learning to trust yourself.
Part of your learning may be a good religiously neutral counselor. I saw a counselor in years past for anxiety. Although I was never really cured of anxiety, I learned a very important lesson. There is no god to help me. I have so much satisfaction in knowing now that I help myself. And if I can, help those around me. When one door closes, another opens. How many times have you heard that. Well, time to close the door on religion and open the one of your life. Don't pressure yourself, either. You do this in your own time. And I can tell you it is a good feeling when your eyes are finally open! I wish you well.
Thanks! I'll be meeting with a new counselor next week actually. I'm in school for psychology and I think it will help a lot. I'm not very far along and what I do know I've learned on my own, through therapy and just reading. I know beliefs are powerful things, and they can seem 100% true when they're 100% false. Those are called delusions. Just writing this out is helping me.
"Just writing this out is helping me."
As it always helps me. I lost my wife and daughters to a drunk driver. And I have gone through some horrible nightmares in the aftermath. However, studying some side classes in psychology (majors were geology, volcanology, astrophysics) help me so damned much, I was actually going to suggest you do the same. Just learning about the CPTSD I am still suffering has given me the knowledge to better combat what is going on inside my mind.
I also suggest this website: https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/#rfr-welcome. Although not entirely free, it does offer some excellent resources. I have not exhaustively investigated it, but I do have it bookmarked so I can suggest to others who may find it helpful.
Another thing I always do with all doctors, counselors, etc., is ask them right off the bat: "What are your religious beliefs? And be honest." If they answer that they are a believer, I ask for another doctor, counselor, etc. until I find one that is not religious.
I have found out the hard way that no matter how much they may try to assure you that their religious beliefs will not interfere, they are actually completely incapable of doing so.
Stay strong. We are here for you when needed.
rmfr
Your post brought a smile to my face because I see someone who is "good", but also can see the light at the the end of the tunnel.
The bible was written by an unknown number of anonymous authors hundreds of years after jesus died. And it was modified, redacted, and edited many times over the following centuries. During those dark ages, the church and feudal lords worked hand-in hand maintaining power. This was when the concept of "hell" was expanded and modified, into one of a burning pit of eternal torture. What better way to keep the peasants in line than with such a scary concept. In fact when I think of it, what can be scarier?
So much for the theory of a "loving and caring god" when hell is used as a tool to keep you in line. That's pretty f--ked up.
What keeps me firmly convinced that the god of the bible is just a pile of hooey is by applying critical thinking, to ask simple questions. When I do that, it gets weird. I mean, really, really weird. Some dude surrounds himself with 12 other dudes, and the only woman in his life is a hooker?
If jesus was alive today, he'd be on Jerry Springer.
Anyhewww ... there are other people that will pop up and also offer support. And this web site has resources for people just like you, who are suffering emotional turmoil and pain because for many, detaching yourself from religion can be a painful and confusing process. And it isn't like flipping a switch. The intellectual realization could happen overnight, but the emotional baggage of being exposed for well over 20 years of religion has been hammered into you. And figuring things out and sorting things out can take awhile.
You aren't alone, and many of us have also experienced the same pain, confusion, and guilt trip religion inflicts on people. But it gets better, you will sort things out, and begin to realize you are a good person, and life itself is just plain fantastic.
Yeah!
I studied the Bible in college and I also studied the history of early religions along with it, and I denied it but I felt relieved when I could see kind of a timeline and a pattern of how Christianity developed from earlier spiritual ideas and religions. My memory is crap and I didn't read all of the stuff I was supposed to but I remember some of it, ha.
Yes this will take some time. Life is good, it's so hard to see when you're depressed but it is. It will have its ups and downs, and you'll feel happy sometimes, sad other times, serene, then bored. Angry. Excited. The whole range. Running away from pain is something that kept me running back to religion, even though that's pretty much running straight to pain. But therapy is something that I believe in, and that I am starting again soon. Glad I'm not just sitting here thinking it to death and white knuckling it. There really are good people out there that care. This forum is restoring my faith in humanity.
Christianity teaches we are born sick then commands us to be well. It is a sick philosophy to it's core. We can learn about life from so many other sources. I have learned more moral lessons by reading Kurt Vonnegut than any of the iron age bullshit in the Bible. Be well and welcome.
That reminds me of a Hozier song I used to turn up on the radio when I would hear it then feel guilty about as soon as it was over. It's such a pretty song, ha.
"I was born sick, but I love it
Command me to be well
Amen, Amen, Amen"
That's awesome, I like to read, and I want to venture into other books than Christian self-help now that I'm not afraid of everything that isn't a Christian book. I agree. Considering some of the collective wisdom that humanity has gathered over time is a good idea for anybody.
Thanks for your comment!
For other books try these:
The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
God is NOT Great by Christopher Hitchens
The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris
These are my three favorite nonreligious writers.
rmfr
As with LogicForTW, I was never religious. I never believed in the diarrhea that was spewed from the mouths of the theists. And talk about being scary. I was reading HP Lovecraft and Edgar Allen Poe when I was 6 years old (along with numerous other authors). I never found HP Lovecraft and Edgar Allen Poe as frightening as the Bible and its monsters (God and Jesus).
Even Stephen King cannot come close to the horror stories in the Bible. And here are a few quotes I truly love from some of my favoritest authors. Please bare with me since I am typing these from memory and it ain't what it used to be...
Robert A. Heinlein (paraphrased): "Men rarely, if ever, manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled brat." For decades, I was calling theists childish, spoiled brats before I found this quote. And when I found it, I was ROFLMAO, almost ROFLMAOPOM.
Isaac Asimov (paraphrased): "Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centuries since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly. Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
Sir Arthur C. Clarke (paraphrased): "The greatest tragedy in all human history is that morality has been hijacked by religion. So now people assume that religion and morality have a necessary connection. But the basis of morality is really very simple and doesn’t require religion at all. Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses."
Paraphrased from Friedrich Nietzsche and Carl Sagan: "Faith is nothing more than not wanting to know what is true. God for you is where you sweep away all the mysteries of the world, all the challenges to our intelligence. You simply turn your mind off and say God did it."
Richard Dawkins (paraphrased): "Theists are rarely capable of distinguishing what is true from what they wish to be true."
And if you need reinforcement, just go back and re-read David Killens two posts. They contain exactly what I would have said if I had thought of it. Especially the surgery thing, which has happened to me twice in one month, for the fifth time in my whole life. Just like he said, I said the same thing to the anesthesiologist. Nurse: "Do you know what is going to happen?" Me: "Yeah, I am going to sleep and I'll wake up. If I don't, I won't know." And this always shocks them due to the fact they are invariably a Christian, and I am an atheist. It shocks them I can be so cool and unafraid of death.
Thus, ChristianityDestroyedMySanity as David said, just fill the rest of your life knowing you can be a better person than any of the theists.
And also remember this, Christianity Utterly Destroys ALL Moral Accountability. If I had wanted to, I could have spent my whole life raping and molesting children like all those Christian Priests, only to be forgiven and absolved of all those crimes simply by accepting and believing that the Magic Zombie Virgin is my lord and savior. Now how fucked up is that? A life-long child molester can get into heaven because of what he believes and I cannot because I do not believe and yet have been the goodest person I could possibly be? Think about it. How fucked up is that?
I would rather have lived my life as I did while my wife and daughters were still alive (I know they are not all words, but you get the point): Being the happiest, lovingest, kindest, givingest, helpingest, generousest, considerest, loyalest, friendliest, humanitarianest, etc., etc.
Be happy and joyful knowing this is the only life that counts, and prove it to others.
You: "Thanks for reading this."
Me: "Thanks for posting it."
rmfr
Edit: fixed cite tag
Lol "magic zombie virgin". The Jesus jokes are always the funniest to me for some reason. I used to see them on my Facebook from time to time and suppress laughter out of fear. Attached one to this post.
I really liked the Dawkins quote. "Theists are rarely capable of distinguishing what is true from what they wish to be true." This is fact. I often thought I was doing better in my life than I really was, just because I believed in Jesus.
I also liked the last bit of the Sir Arthur C. Clarke quote "...Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses." This hits home so deep. I feel like it convinces you its your friend and its healing you while it secretly sucks the life out of you. I do know that some people are happy with their lives and religious. About 4 in 10 though, according to a pew research poll from 2016. So the majority of religious people aren't happy.
One thing I do want to keep from religion is to try to be forgiving even of the very worst of wrongs. But that's because I'm pretty much a bleeding heart liberal lol. I had a pen pal in prison a few years back on death row for some pretty awful stuff.
I want to live that way too!
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Oh my gosh. That was like the worst way to end that post XD I meant I want to live a kind, loving life, not be on death row for horrible crimes!
And I did get what you meant...
Funny you should say that. I designed this image to be the rear cover of my essay: Soul Shatter.
Life Sucking: https://i.imgur.com/xiRv4R8.jpg
And before asking, yes, you may download it and use as wished. In fact, anyone reading this post may do so. All I ask is pay attribution to RMF Runyan.
rmfr
Reading everybody's posts now. I got weak and had a mental relapse for a moment this morning. Only took like a few minutes before the mental crap started. Was convinced for a moment that God was after me to try to force me to do something that really irritates me to prove he is in authority. Don't need to specify, just mental illness paranoia and delusional stuff. I am going to have to put a lot of mental effort into this and be on my guard against relapse but it's worth it for a better life.
You are not bad unless you do evil shit. Everybody makes mistakes and we strive to better ourselves. I have worked twelve long stressful days in a row and I did not appeal to a sky fairy even once. I am going back to making this antipasto for my family and will soon open a decent but cheap Cabernet. Hope you have a good Saturday.
Two steps forward, one step back. Right now there may be more dark days than good days, but over time you will begin to enjoy a lot more good days than ones spent in self-suffering.
I suggest you begin to build a set of tools to help you. For me, I have a mental list of things that distract me and make me smile. It could be a stupid but fun movie, a walk in the woods, watching cute puppy videos, whatever. But when you realize you are beginning to go down that spiral of emotional pain, get up and change the tune.
Just hang in there, and please remember always, that a lot of people really care and have your back.
Hey there, Christianity DMS! (aka: Savvy) Welcome to the AR! We are very honored that you decided to join our little oasis of sanity to help recharge your batteries. As you have already discovered, we definitely have a good crew here. We range far and wide across the planet with an incredible diversity of backgrounds and experiences. Hang up your coat, find a comfy spot, and kick up your feet and chill. You are in a good place here.
I really hate hearing how difficult it has been for you. On the plus side, however, I think it is fantastic you are no longer blind to the deceptions that religion has forced on you during your life. And while it may be a painful process to completely escape the grasp of those malignant tendrils that have invaded your psyche and intertwined themselves in an attempt to strangle all rational thought and peace of mind, I assure you it is a process well worth enduring. While my struggle was nowhere near as difficult as yours, I can still relate to those feelings of doubt and fear you mentioned. There is always that little voice in the back of your head whispering, "Pssst... Hey, what if you are wrong?" That is an incredibly annoying little voice, is it not? Sometimes it seems like it will never shut up. Just keeps repeating that same damn question over and over and over until you almost want to scream. Got some good news for you, though. The more you learn, the less and less that annoying little voice will bother you. And then comes a day when you are going about your business and it suddenly dawns on you out of the blue, "Hey, I haven't heard that annoying little voice in quite a few days. Wow! Cool!"
An important thing you must realize in your particular case, however, is that getting rid of religion is not any type of single "defining moment" event. It is a gradual process. Tiny steps. One foot in front of the other. One day at a time. Do not try to force it. Simply continue studying and researching and asking questions. Your joining this site is definitely an excellent step in the right direction. I can tell you that from personal experience, because it is this site and all of the heathenistic misfits on here that helped me to fully break away from the last few bonds that kept me tied to that ancient crock of insanity known as Christianity. Eventually, you will finally get to the point to where you will look at others who are still stuck in that delusional mind-prison and think to yourself, "How do they not see? The door isn't even locked. All they have to do is open it and step outside the cell. Why don't they just open the door and walk out?" Just hang in there. It will happen.
Oh, and one other thing. Personally, I absolutely love a good laugh. I look for humor in anything and everything whenever possible. (Which, for me, is pretty much all the time. *chuckle*) And along those same lines, I believe humor can also be an excellent means of teaching and learning. Oh, and in case you have not read any of my other posts yet in other threads, I sorta-kinda-in-a-way-every-now-and-then-possibly-maybe might get just a tad bit sarcastic. In my defense, however, I do that only when I am trying to not be an asshole. *halo over head* So, with that in mind, I have provided a link to a Non-Stamp Collector video. Funny stuff, but they very much highlight so much of the absurdity that is taught from the bible. Dark Matter is another video series that can be totally hilarious sometimes too. (Both series are equally good, but while Non-Stamp Collector tries to be somewhat more "friendly", the Dark Matter guys pull ZERO punches. LOL) Anyway, just a word or warning, once you start watching them it can sometimes be hard to stop. *grin* Let me know what you think. Hope to see you around in other threads, and please keep us posted on your progress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYvcc8ui3CM
(Edited to add current user name)
Everyone on this site has been so helpful and supportive. I feel kinda like I'm talking about myself way too much but you guys have helped so much so thanks so much for listening and being there ^_^ Watching the video now. I remember the first time I read the Old Testament. It was not too long after my conversion and that's when I started really disliking God and could never stop thinking the Bible God was heartless and all about his authority, power, and obedience and lacked empathy. Struggled for years after that, basically trying to worship and love and agree with the God that I felt was narcissistic and did not care about humanity and was cruel to us.
The Isaac story is one I could never truly be okay with in my heart. I am not one to have completely blind obedience and trust, and couldn't force myself to be like that, no matter how hard I tried. I gotta have proof of trustworthiness. If anyone, God or not, told me to burn my child alive on an alter because they said so, I would uh, definitely not? Because that's not only insane, but burning alive and dying are not exactly what I'd want for my child?
@Christy (Hope you don't mind. Easier to type that. *grin*) aka: Savvy
Glad you liked the vid. Check out a few more when you get a chance. Some of them are hilarious, especially the Dark Matter videos.
DO NOT FEEL BAD AND DO NOT APOLOGIZE for talking about yourself or your problems on here. From my experience, that is one of the best ways to sort out your thoughts and to get feedback from people who actually give a shit. And the best part about this site is that you do not have to deal with people who try to fill you full of a bunch of bullshit simply to try to make you feel better. Folks on here have a tendency to shoot straight and say the things that need to be said. Sometimes you may not exactly like some of the advice you get, but rest assured it will likely be something you NEED to hear as opposed to something you just WANT to hear. Truth may not always be something we like, but it does not keep it from being the truth.
Anyway, just to give you a bit of my own background, I was raised in a Baptist/Methodist household, with my Mom, my Granny, and both my Uncles being highly devoted Christians. Matter of fact, one of my Uncles was a Methodist preacher. Yes, I was dragged to Sunday school/church pretty much every Sunday morning, and many Sunday nights and Wednesday nights. Fortunately for me, though, it was not something that was "beaten into me" the same way it was with many of my friends during those days. Oddly enough, I was actually encouraged by my Mom to think for myself and make my own decisions. As a result, even as a kid, the whole Father/Son/Holy Ghost thing never did make much sense to me. Come to think of it, there were very few things they taught us in Sunday that made much sense to me. Too many contradictions and too many inconsistencies. And the adults never had any answers that fully satisfied my questions. Even so, I still always "believed" simply because of the threat of Hell. Hey, better to be safe than sorry, right? (Pascal's Wager, by the way.) And, besides, I was a kid. Too many other more important things to worry about. You know, like, "I hope I get to play second base again in tomorrow's baseball game." And, of course, "I wonder if Cindy will say, 'Yes', if I ask her to go steady with me. Maybe she will even hold hands with me." Even so, all that God and Jesus stuff tends to stick in your head whether you want it to or not, and it tags along like a tick on a hound into your teenage and adult years.
Looking back, I would be hard pressed to say that I ever did truly and deeply believe any of that stuff. I ALWAYS felt incredibly uncomfortable kneeling at the altar. Just never felt natural. Actually felt mighty uncomfortable. Bowing down and kneeling before another person or thing or entity just always seemed fundamentally WRONG to me. In my mind I was always wondering, "If this god supposedly loves me so much, and is so incredibly powerful, and is so incredibly knowledgeable, then why does it need me to kneel before it and grovel at its feet?" Like I said, that never made much sense to me. Even thought I did not know the correct terms as a kid, I can look back now and say that it sounded more like an insecure and egotistical narcissistic bully. And now that I am older and more aware, I am quite certain that is exactly what it is. Fortunately, I now no longer believe that particular entity (nor any other) exists.
You are on the right track, Christy. Just maintain your course. Steady as she goes....
(Edited to add current user name)
"...all of the heathenistic misfits on here..."
Hey! How dare you compliment me like that? Gee whiz. And without my permission.
Why I oughta compliment you back you undogmatic infidel. ;-P
rmfr
CDMS:
Only if you wish to read it.
It is 35 pages long.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kndhyq245vjqa3v/SoulShatter.zip?dl=0
However, it will show you that you are definitely NOT alone when it comes to suffering. Although mine has nothing to do with religion, it should show that you are NOT alone.
And do not bother about seeming to be open. I am the same way. I tell others what I have through. Although it does help talking/writing about it, it also lets others know where I am coming from. Why I am so cynical.
May your many, many years be filled with more happiness than mine.
rmfr
P.S. — As I and others have said, we are here for you. We've got your back.
P.P.S. — As for the morals thing, just ask yourself what I ask myself, "Will this harm myself another person?" If yes, don't do it.
I don't know if logic is a good antidote for fear, but you should know that the idea of hell has a long history of evolution. The Old Testament authors did not subscribe to the modern idea of hell, and even the word "hell" in the Old Testament is an inaccurate translation of sheol, the Hebrew underworld. A long, evolutionary history would be absurd if hell actually existed. In that sense it's like the other evolved mythologies. You might wish to explore this evolved history on the web, being sure to avoid the propaganda sites put out by religious fanatics.
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