Expectations of a theistic world view

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TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Expectations of a theistic world view


I am up bright and early and pondering many questions, such as, "why am I awake so damned early?!" pahhahaha!

But on a serious note, I wondered the following:

If the theistic world view was true, so that there was an all powerful, all knowing deity........ would we expect miracles?

Would it not make far more sense to be told something transending!

I would be far more swayed if there was a document that demonstrated what dark energy/matter was exactly and how to go about proving it.

Having miracles as a bedrock, simply makes the notion more unbelievable.

Alas, this was just a fleeting ramble whilst I try to increase my caffeine intake to preposterous proportions :P

Have a splendid day.

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Randomhero1982's picture
That's a fair point, I've

That's a fair point, I've seen this brought up in debates a few times when the atheist has said "why didn't the bible tell us about germ theory" etc...

I would take it a step further though, why cant the bible tell us with authority, from a known witness, with evidence and not from multiple unknown source that contradict one another.

Why? Because it is bollocks.

Sheldon's picture
Well when I see the religious

Well when I see the religious punish non believers for their incredulity, both historically and in contemporary societies, I always wonder why an omnipotent deity needs their help to achieve this?

If all copies of the koran or bible became indestructible when they were completed, I'd find that far more compelling than the threats from theists not to deny the superstitious guff in them.

If the creation myths had beaten human science to the truth in an unequivocal way, I might seriously wonder how that had happened, though whether I'd leap to the conclusion something supernatural had intervened is dubious. As it is religions immutable truths from an infallible deity are laughable wrong on even the most basic facts.

A miracle to me usually implies either direct bias from those making the claim, or a leap to an unevidenced conclusion of a supernatural event by eyewitnesses based on not understanding what they've witnessed. An appeal to ignorance fallacy in other words.

In every instance the testimonies are dubious, and the conclusions unevidenced.

By comparison a deity that can convince one human it is real, could convince us all, and we'd all know there was a deity, and which deity. Why appear to some, or convince some and leave the vast majority in ignorance?

Can one really fail to notice the geographical preferences for particular deities and religions, or how those beliefs always reflect the cultures and ignorance of the periods in which they are created. Or how those beliefs are influenced by outside facts like science and education?

It's a fragile thread, and once you start to pull at it, it unravels at an ever increasing speed.

The real irony is that the thread OP will e greeted with the usual facile claims it's up to us to become suggestible towards a particular deity or belief in order to find some esoteric hidden truth. They must haven't have noticed that theists have been killing and torturing each other who make claims to know better than the prevailing religion's doctrine.

As always the irony is palpable.

Cognostic's picture


1. Would we expect miracles. "Certainly! And they would be happening openly and ll the time for anyone deserving. They would be commonplace.

2. told something transcending! " How would we know? If something transcends our ability to understand it, how shall we do so? If it does not transcend our ability, why call it transcending?

3. "A paper explaining dark energy/matter" Or God could have just let us know about the germ theory of disease 10,000 years ago. Jesus could have mentioned it 2000 years ago. A paper only leads us to wonder who the author was, not that the author was transcending. We already have several books written by transcending things and we find them woefully inadequate. Might it be imagined that the transcendent have as much difficulty imagining us as we do them?

4. "Miracles and bedrock" but that is only because we live in an age where miracles are explained away. I once experienced a vivid dream. I was a native in a jungle. My friends and I were walking along a path when a horrible monster came into the path. He had a big head, fiery eyes, and he roared with such a fierce sound that I wanted to run away. But suddenly the monster fell over and there was just a man there. Another native, like me. He stood from his fall and picked something large and flat up off the ground. The monster's head came back. Without knowledge of a scary face painted on a war shield, it is only natural to see it as a supernatural beast. Once the trick is understood, the magician becomes a mortal man. There is no miraculous event in the history of the world that is not more easily explained by natural causes and for those that remain unknown, there is no leap possible into the transcendent for we have no idea at all what to look for.

Yes, "have a splendid day. " Wouldn't that be a miracle if you could not explain it?

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