Happy Holidays Raciest?

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Phillida's picture
Happy Holidays Raciest?

I spend a lot of time in a virtual world usually I’ll say “Happy Holidays” during this season. Occasional I’ll get the something like, “You're taking the Christ out of Christmas.”. To which I’ll answer, “I believe in evidence NOT some myth invented by a bunch of middle eastern goat headers over two thousand years ago.” A fairly liberal friend of mine says that is raciest. How is it raciest?

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CyberLN's picture
Although I am unable to read

Although I am unable to read her mind and you should actually ask her, she may not like the intimation that middle easterners are all goat herders.

Cognostic's picture
@Phillida: RE: “Happy

@Phillida: RE: “Happy Holidays” (A completely neutral expression that includes all festive celebrations during the Holiday Season: Kwanzaa, Winter Solstice, Las Posadas, Diwali, Chinese New Year, New Years, and Hanukkah, just to name the major ones I can think of.)

RE: “You're taking the Christ out of Christmas.” (A bigoted response that claims the Christmas season for Christians only and completely ignores the fact that most religions in the world have a Winter Holiday around this time of the year. It is also ignoring the fact that Christmas is a pagan holiday mixed with Christian symbolism. Where in the bible is a Christian told to celebrate Christmas? Pagan tradition included cutting down the tree, putting it in a stand, bringing it into the home, decorating it, singing around the tree, and gift giving. These are not Christian Traditions. The only person being bigoted is the asshole that thinks Christmas is a Christian holiday and everyone else should fuck off. )

RE: "Middle Eastern Goat Herders" While we all poke fun at the Christians now and again, as soon as you mindlessly slur everyone in the Middle East, you are in fact being a bigot. Please prove the Bible was written by Middle Eastern Goat Herders. You are, in fact, being a bit of a bigot here. Goat herders, typically, were not the ones writing books. Given that we have no idea at all who most of the authors of the bible were, we can not conclude they were goat herders even though many may have had some experience in that particular field of employment.

You could short circuit this response.

"Happy Holidays"
"Why are you taking the Christ out of Christmas"
"Why are you being a bigot. Christmas is only one of the winter traditions. Do you know other people have other traditions and they do not include your magical Jesus?"
"But Christmas is for celebrating the birth of Jesus."
"I did not mention Christmas. I said happy holidays. You celebrate it any way you like. Just stop being a bigot and insisting everyone has to include Jesus in their celebration."
"I didn't say that!"
"Yes, you did. You accused people of taking Christ out of Christmas. I don't celebrate Christmas and neither do millions of other people on the planet. Happy Holiday is completely appropriate."

Stay focuses and you can demonstrate the Christian is the one being bigoted.

cranky47's picture
@philida

@philida

A very aggressive thing for a person to say to you on the face of it .

BUT here my response is similar to 'have a nice day" because that's the meaning I give "Merry Xmas". In this instance , my response is " thank you. You too, stay a safe".
.

To me, a person wishing me a a happy Xmas is a trivial thing, with no malice ,or even much thought behind it. It is not something about which I choose to take umbrage .

Nor do I choose to take offence if a person says"god bless you" when I sneeze. Such things are thoughtless cultural norms.(memes?) They are not attacks on my atheism ,about which the person is probably ignorant .

Different drums I guess.

I'm put in mind of the Serenity Prayer, said at every AA meeting ( I simply make it a wish )

"May I have the serenity to accept the things I cannot change ,
The courage to change the things which should be changed
and the wisdom to distinguish one from the other"

(the second part is omitted because it's specific to Christianity, which AA is not)

Algebe's picture
Hello Phillida:

Hello Phillida:

"Raciest" is the superlative of "racy", which means mildly erotic. The word you're looking for is "racist".

Since goat herding is a job, not an ethnic group, I don't see how you're comments could be described as "racist". Since the authors of the Bible were literate, they were probably not goat herders, but goat herding was a representative industry in their culture.

As others have said, Christians didn't invent Christmas. They hijacked it. The same is true of Easter. Christmas trees, gifts, mistletoe, yule logs, Easter bunnies and Easter eggs are all pagan symbols.

Your Christian friends might also be interested to learn that the modern Santa Claus was invented for a Coca Cola advertising campaign in the 1930s. That's why Santa wears Coke's corporate colors.

Christmas is a festival of pagan symbols and money, with scraps of Christian mythology grafted on.

Sheldon's picture
"the modern Santa Claus was

"the modern Santa Claus was invented for a Coca Cola advertising campaign in the 1930s. That's why Santa wears Coke's corporate colors."

Parenthetically, the US version of the Santa Claus suit design can be attributed to the work of Thomas Nast for Harper's Weekly magazine.

It was Haddon Sundblom working for the Coca-Cola Company whose work standardized the western image of Santa, and popularized the image of the red suit with white fur trim.

In some European countries  the "Saint Nicholas outfit remains closer to religious clothing, often including a Bishop's mitre.

The legend of Santa Claus can be traced back to a monk named St. Nicholas, claimed to have been born sometime around 280 A.D. in Patara, near Myra in modern-day Turkey. This legend is centuries older than the modern Santa. The name associated with the original legend is Santa Claus, whereas Santa Clause originated in a 1994 movie starring Tim Allen. 

Citation...Wikipedia (paraphrased for brevity)

"Santa Claus, is of course an imaginary figure originating in Western Christian culture. The modern Santa Claus grew out of traditions surrounding the historical Saint Nicholas (a fourth-century Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra), as is the British figure of Father Christmas, and the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas(himself also based on Saint Nicholas). Some maintain Santa Claus also absorbed elements of the Germanic god  Wodan, who was associated with the pagan midwinter event of Yule, and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky."

The story is an apt syllogism of the errant winding path religious myths take from an original myth, as they constantly evolve and change over time, under cultural, political, social and ideological pressures of all sorts.

If an omniscient omnipotent deity wanted to communicate an inerrant message, then it's preposterous to imagine it could ever be remotely distorted from the perfect original. Or become corrupted or errant in any way.

The theistic alternative is a deity that wastes it's time in the certain knowledge its message doesn't match reality, and / or will never be properly represented or understood anyway.

A more rational explanation of why these divine inerrant messages clearly bear all the hallmarks of human fallibility, requires no explanation to any objective reader, as it is manifestly self evident, matches all the objective evidence, and requires no acceptance of any claim for which objective evidence cannot be demonstrated.

That's a load off, I must say. Though I'm a little concerned how easily my grandchildren can Google the Santa Clause myth...I'd worked it out by about 6 or 7 even without the internet to help, when a neighbour dressed as Santa came with my parents to say hello, and only I could be awakened. If they hadn't tried to pretend I might have been fooled, but the real Santa couldn't be a doppelganger for a neighbour I instantly recognised.

I played along of course, in an odd piece of reverse psychology not to disappoint my parents, but to this day my sister insists I thought he was real, though she was only 3 or 4 at the time of course, and I could hardly go back on my affirmation and deny it as a child when my parents asked.

Weird how children that young feel the need to protect their parents from disappointment, and again a useful analogy for the power parents and grown ups can have on children, even unknowingly planting ideas. I like to think I was more of a cynic than most children that age, maybe just ego, but who knows. I may have been born to be an atheist, as it was unavoidable.

Algebe's picture
@Sheldon: I played along of

@Sheldon: I played along of course, in an odd piece of reverse psychology not to disappoint my parents

I wonder how many Christians pretend to believe for the same reason. Certainly we see many messages on the forums from closet atheists who dread coming out because of the impact it would have on their families.

Perhaps Christmas really is a Christian festival, inasmuch as it's all about deceiving children.

David Killens's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

"Perhaps Christmas really is a Christian festival, inasmuch as it's all about deceiving children."

And using fear to manipulate. If children are not capable enough to recognize hell, being told that someone is watching and they may not receive any presents under the tree is something all children comprehend.

You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
He's making a list
He's checking it twice
He's gonna find out who's naughty or nice
Santa Claus is coming to town
He sees you when you're sleeping
And he knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
'Cause Santa Claus is coming to town
(Oh, let's go)
He sees you when you're sleeping
And he knows when you're awake
And he knows if you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake!
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming to town
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why
Santa Claus is coming
I mean a big fat man with a long white beard
He's coming to town

And to think I once thought this was a happy and joyous song. I look back on my christian childhood and shudder knowing I fully believed that song.

Ho fucking ho.

Algebe's picture
@David Killens: And to think

@David Killens: And to think I once thought this was a happy and joyous song

Yes. It's a great expression of Christian family values, especially the versions by Bing Crosby and the Jackson Five.

I think my illusions about Santa were finally destroyed when I learned what people do to male reindeer in Lapland. No wonder Rudolf's nose went red.

Sheldon's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

Well quite, it always makes me guffaw when christians bemoan the rampant consumerism that Christmas has some to represent. They must not have noticed televangelists who own their own jets, and live in mansions, or that the RCC apart from being the largest, and oldest Christian churches, is also one of the richest organisations on the planet.

edit: word added for clarification....

LogicFTW's picture
Hah!

Hah!

Santa, brought to you and sponsored by Coca Cola.
The same company that used these advertising slogans:

"The Great National Temperance Beverage," - an an alternative to alcohol during the prohibition.
"Three Million a Day" "Six Million a Day" - (it is now over 1 billion a day)

"Where There's Coke There's Hospitality."
"Red, White & You"
"Catch the Wave"
"I'd Like to Buy the World a Coke."

"Enjoy Thirst"
It Had to Be Good to Get Where It Is
Around the Corner from Everywhere
Ice Cold Sunshine
Along the Highway to Anywhere
The Coke Side of Life

And so much more.

Anyways I learned something new today.

cranky47's picture
@LogicFTW

@LogicFTW

My favourite in Oz was "the pause that refreshes"

That didn't seem to me to have a sexual innuendo, but at least one skit show managed.

Actually stopped drinking Coke about 30 years ago, when I realised I prefer Pepsi. Today drink neither. I think Aldi's own brand is quite good. (It's 59 cents for 1.25 litres, which includes the 10cent deposit on plastic bottles here in South Australia)

--at one point, when I was still drinking, the gut rot wine I bought was cheaper than Pepsi

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