My mom made me believe that I can't have my own opinions and beliefs. I have to pretend to believe in Orthodox Judaism to in "order to be with my family." I'm turning 23 at the end of the month, my mom sees me like a small child. I digress, this also has me feeling disenfranchised from American Society. I feel like the first amendment and the Consitution as a whole doesn't apply to me, despite being a US citizen. My cousins (children of my mom's sisters) became radicalized over the years (they're Orthodox Jewish, but became more extreme). I feel like a fish outta water. I feel stuck and guilty. What should I do?
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@TheVegetarianHu.:
Okay..... lets begin by cutting away the bullshit. You are not Compromising your opinions for your family. You are lying to yourself. You are hiding because you are telling yourself horror stories about what will happen if you come out as an atheist. You are lying to your family because it is the easiest thing to do and it keeps you safe. It also prevents you from growing up. individuating, and becoming the person you really want to be. You are not a child. Stop acting like one. (INDIVIDUATION: Individuation is the process by which an individual becomes distinct. Individuation distinguishes you from everybody else.)
re: I feel like the first amendment and the Consitution as a whole doesn't apply to me, despite being a US citizen/
It does not apply to you. Children have to follow their parent's demands. Children have more rules than the rest of us.
RE. "I feel stuck and guilty."
You have two choices. Unstick yourself or stay stuck. Pretending that you do not have a choice is the same thing as choosing to stay stuck. If you stay stuck, you are safe. You already know all the problems. If you choose to have a future is it scary, you really have no idea at all what is going to happen. Regardless; The happiness of your family members is not your responsibility. Obviously your happiness is not their responsibility or they would do stuff to make you happy and not feel like a prisoner without rights.
HERE IS THE THING ABOUT YOUR RIGHTS:
NO ONE GIVES THEM TO YOU. YOU MUST USE THEM OR LOSE THEM
Good Luck.
Sorry that I haven't been on for so long. I've been busy with work.
I agree with you. At the same time, my intent wasn't to act childish. I was saying that my mom treats me like a child, despite the fact that I'm old enough to vote and serve on a jury. I was saying that I feel like I'm unable to hold opposing opinions without fear of her throwing a temper tantrum. To her, family stuff is all black & white. To me, there are several shades of gray. I understand the importance of family, while at the same time, I wanna live my own life rather than one that I'm expected to live.
@TheVegetarianHu... RE: Child. Be clear on this. I have not called you a child but indicated you are acting like your mother's child still. You are in complicit agreement with her. You have not broken the chains of your bond with your family. You have not become an adult in their eyes or in your own with regards to them. You defer your self worth and interpretation of who you are as a human being to them. You have not individuated.
Re "You feel like you are unable to hold opposing opinions. " You and I both know that is a lie. You already hold opposing opinions and are scared shirtless of expressing them. You have been conditioned not to go against mommy.
Re: "without fear of her throwing a temper tantrum." What is "Anger?" I challenge you to tell me any reason for the "Anger Reaction" beyond pure manipulation. All you have said is your mother manipulates you with her anger. The Anger reaction is ALWAYS about not getting what you want.
It could be something as serious as the death of a child. Kuba Ross identifies the stages of grief. (DABDA) Denial, ANGER, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance. Notice ANGER AND BARGAINING = Trying to get what you want. Please God just make it not so and I will sacrifice my own life. No? Well then "Fuck You!" It's all about trying to get what you want.
Anger, in every single instance. (Each and every time.) Is about one thing and one thing only - "GETTING WHAT YOU WANT." In each and every case, "ANGER" is an attempt at manipulation.
The old lady in the supermarket begins digging through her change purse for a penny at the checkout stand and you are in a hurry. "You want the woman to have her change out and ready. You want to get moving. Why in the fuk is she taking so long. You get angry."
The asshole that just pulled in front of you did so unsafely. What a fucktard. Doesn't he know this is your lane. You want him to drive more safely. You want him to give your your space. What an asshole.
Some idiot bumps into you and then insults you in a bar. You want the asshole to treat you with more respect. You want him to know that the situation is his fault and not yours. How dare he blame you. You get angry.
The baby wants a cookie and you tell him no. He starts to scream and yell until you give him the damn cookie. (Or if you are a good parent you endure and teach the child that THROWING A TEMPER TANTRUM IS NEVER A WAY TO GET WHAT YOU WANT.)
ANGER IS ALWAYS ABOUT GETTING WHAT YOU WANT AND IT IS ALWAYS AN ATTEMPT AT MANIPULATING THE WORLD AROUND YOU. You are complicit in your mother's manipulation. You are complicit in remaining a child to her. So the fuck what if she throws a tantrum. SHE IS AN ADULT. She can not have everything she wants. It's a shame her parents did not teach her this. It's a shame you now have the opportunity to learn this but may choose not to.,
FINALLY: The importance of family does not change because you are an Atheist. You can still love your mom, even when she throws a tantrum and acts like an infant wanting a cookie. You need to accept her the way she is; JUST LIKE YOU WANT HER TO ACCEPT YOU THE WAY YOU ARE! Why not lead by example.
It's a nasty thing that some religions do, where they threathen social ostracism from friends and family in cases of apostasy. Ostracism is not against the law, unfortunately perhaps. Isn't the non-practicing/atheist Jewish population rather large in the US? 23 is an adult by any account. Are you dependent on your family for bread and board? How likely do you think it would be that your family could throw you out if you told them of your atheism?
Into what was your cousing radicalized into?
I have coped with family / religious friends by simply not engaging them. I have only told a few family members and friends that I am an atheist. My Dad is a Pentecostal preacher, he knows. He preached at me for 19 years. I did not respond or argue with the preached topics but I never stopped responding to our commonalities. He stopped preaching at me twenty years ago. We talk and visit on a regular basis. We are close. I have friends that would become an irritant if they became determined to save me from hellfire. So, I don't engage with them. I need fishing buddies, you know. Workmates, none of their business, so I don't engage. The atheist friends I have (in real life) are not concerned with atheism that much much , so we talk about politics, wine, food, good jokes, our kids and grandkids, etc. I get my atheist jollies here on this and another forum because I do like to argue and test my arguments. I don't know if this helped.
Added: One thing I have not been asked to do is pretend or been dependent on any of the above.
My basic tactic is in line with chimp's.
If pushed, I point out to anyone who inquires that I never discuss politics or religion with those close to me, because they are divisive and can tear friendships and family apart. If pushed, I hold my position. I absolutely refuse to discuss those topics. My response is (it is a very rare occasion I have to make this statement) ...
"It is my business and not yours. I will not inquire into your beliefs, stay out of mine.
Hello.
I had a different upbringing. My parents were not bad to me but would not talk to me about things serious and I spent most of my youth going from home to school and back. I was very naive. My father was all rules and comforming to institutional rules and my mother was a very ignorant person who would not read a book.
My father was a fiscal Catholic, just thinking that you had to respect the Church, but they never made a lot of pressure on me.
My father was an electronics graduate but they did not help me have a profession. I dropped out of university and was too dumb to ask that they help me do something else. And they would not, hoping maybe that I was going to go back to university.
I spent 2 years here in Italy looking for a job that I did not get. I was too immature.
Then my father told me to go to England and improve my English but he would not give me the money to go. My sister helped me. She was more sociable than me, a bit more mature, and she had a little job.
So at 22 I left home alone and took a train to London. The train was full and I opened a newspaper, put it on the floor and travelled all night lying there.
I had an address in London. I knew nothing about life but going to England had always been one of my childhood dreams, thanks to the Beatles and Sherlock Holmes novels, so I was determined to make a go of it.
I was just carrying a simple bag with almost nothing in it because my parents would always abandon me to myself and I was too inexperienced.
Towards the end of the month that I was supposed to spend in London I had a brilliant idea: I went looking for a job and I got something, nothing to write home about, but eventually I spent 2 and a half years in London, working, meeting friends, enjoying myself and being free from parental company and life then in the 7'0's was simple enough and even I could manage. So I felt confident and later in life I quit home again and rarely went back during more than 30 years.
Parents are supposed to do like birds, teach their siblings to fly and let them leave the nest. But especially mothers rarely do, you have to learn to make your own choices according to your own feelings because in the end it is you the one who pays. And you need a bit of luck too. I hope this helps
Thank you ferguson1951, wise words and a wonderful story.
@VegetarianHum...
Do you have a job? If not, then you need to get one. Then save the money to move out. Once you are living on your own, then you can stop hiding who you are.
Thanks everyone for the replies. Sorry I never had the chance to get back to y'all. I've been busy lately.
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