Historians and Christians

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Jeff Vella Leone's picture
beneames the prophecy about

beneames the prophecy about the destruction of the temple in 70 ad is very precise, jesus nails the date precisly spot on and also says that not a stone will be left on top of an other.

the most logical conclusion is that the author wrote this after the destruction of the temple since no other prophecy ever made was so precise.
Especially compared to the other prophecies Jesus himself makes.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
read this for a further

read this for a further understanding about the most reasonable way of reading this prophecy:



beneames's picture
Yep, that's the most

Yep, that's the most reasonable way to read it, unless you believe that Jesus is the son of God, which I do ;)

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
even if he was the son of god

even if he was the son of god, it does not mean that he was a prophet :P

well, we are debating what can be demonstrate with evidence and thus we stick on where reason gets us.

You can believe that you yourself is a god, it has no value what so ever in the discussion.

But it is nice that you admit that it is the most reasonable way to read it.

watchman's picture


"its both literature, history, math, science, music, etc"

Literature .... arguable but allowed in the FICTION section.

History ........No ... just NO. not even a little bit.

Math ...........No

Science .......Certainly not.

Music .........MUSIC ??? Nah ....cant get a tune out of it.

Etc. ........... possibly .... maybe the best fit yet ... Etc is a Latin expression that means "and other things" ..well it is something else.

ChildofGod's picture
Literature: Fictional to you

Literature: Fictional to you but not even
History: How the world came to be
Math: Days, food for 5,000 people etc.
Science: in the beginning
Music: Psalms

ex-christian_atheist's picture
Literature: Demonstrably

Literature: Demonstrably fictional, and a snooze fest in most parts
History: A flase account of how the world came to be, confliction with demonstable history in many accounts.
Math: 5 + 2 = 5000? Incorrect
Science: In the beginning....of the Bible, it starts getting science wrong, and continues until the end
Music: Psalms is poetry, no musical notation. Psalms is literature, not music.

ChildofGod's picture
ok then you proved my point.

ok then you proved my point. poetry is a form of music and literature
and you only disagree with the Bible because whatever you came to realize no offense was a bunch of bull. Me along with other Christians would agree with me as well. Why you became an atheist, i dont know and i dont care, its none of my business but the fact that you decided to question God or whatever you did well see, thats just sad

CyberLN's picture
Poetry is a form of music? Oy

Poetry is a form of music? Oy. Put a copy of the psalms on my piano and play it for me.

beneames's picture
The psalms are songs, but

The psalms are songs, but they're pretty old and the sheet music wasn't handed down unfortunately. I would love to know what they actually sounded like back then.

ChildofGod's picture
now that i think about it...

now that i think about it... so do i

watchman's picture
Exactly what I would have

Exactly what I would have said Ex-C_A

With one small omission .... which ,if you'll permit....

Literature : Fiction .... Subsection ...Fantasy......

Fantasy .. ?

Giants ….. ?
Goliath ,of course, (1 Samuel 17.) but also Deuteronomy 2.10 ,2-20 and 3.11 “For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants;”

Unicorns …. ?
Numbers 23.22
“ God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.”
Also Psalm 29.6
“He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn”. ,then also Psalm 92.10 & Deuteronomy 33.17.

Satyrs … ?
Isiah 13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.

Cockatice …..?
Jermiah 8:17:"For, behold, I will send serpents, cockatrices, among you, which will not be charmed, and they shall bite you, saith the LORD."

Flying Fiery Serpents …. ?
Isaiah 14:29:"Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent."

And even Dragons .. ?
Isiah 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

And just to out-Dreamworks Dreamworks ,how about a talking Donkey ..?

22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
22:30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. (or should that be Neigh).

(Desperately fighting the urge to make a comment about "talking out of their ass"...
Damn ...and I was doing so well.)

ChildofGod's picture
then say it. because i

then say it. because i honestly couldn't care less

Lmale's picture
Did you guys know back when

Did you guys know back when yahweh was just one of many hebrew gods he was married to a female god called asherah how come shes not in the bible lol.

beneames's picture
Asherah was one of the gods

Asherah was one of the gods of the Canaanites. She gets a lot of mentions in the Bible, all negative.

Chris T.'s picture
Watchman, you forgot about

Watchman, you forgot about "vampires". Even though the bible does not specifically talk about vamps, it does mention Lilith. If you research the Jewish writings, her back story is there in full. Also, Jeff is correct about most secular sources being of Roman hands under the Flavian Dynasty. Those people are not to be trusted at all. The fact the word " Jesus" is in these writings is questionable too. The letter "J" (JA) is only 400-500 years old. When it was used before then, it was used as a lower case "I" and "Y". Jesus' original name is Yashua. So in modern English would translate to " Joshua". To go even deeper, in the original KJV it was translated to Iesus. So the fact that (J)esus shows up in secular history is odd. Maybe someone can explain/debunk this notion. Also, not sure if its true, but in my research, it is said that Iesus is a compound word of "Ie" and "sus". Translated to "Ie" (hail) "sus" (Zeus). This may be propaganda. Anyone have a refute to this?
COG, science does not need to disprove a God. The teachings collapse on themselves, but if your hellbent, pun intended, on a scientific claim I must ask you. Do you believe that the blood of a bird can cure leprosy? The bible says it does. It says to obtain two clean birds, pour the blood of one of the birds into a bowl, dip the other bird into the blood, and then sprinkle the blood on your skin exactly seven times. BAM! No more leprosy.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
1 Corinthians 1:19

1 Corinthians 1:19
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

The roman authors of the gospels has a sick sens of humor.

They are practically saying that all people who believe have to be stupids.

22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?"

Dam watchman, you just found an other parallel the roman authors made.

Luke 22:34
"I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

Chris, it is nice to see that you are on the right track.
And yes the Romans were pagans and inserted pagan stuff in the gospel.


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