Hi everyone. I’m new here.
I’ve been agnostic then atheist all of my life and I wish I believed in God.
I have several serious health problems and I feel like I would better be able to cope if I believed in God.
So many people on forum boards as well as in real life all have such strong faith and it seems to bring them such comfort.
I envy them but in no way do I agree with their beliefs.
Does anyone feel the same way or have suggestions on how I can get over feeling like this?
Thanks.
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Hi Mac. Welcome to AR.
There are so many things that can provide comfort that are demonstrably real. Lots of folks even find it here, in our little community. So please feel free to jump in and join us.
As a side note...this is the debate room and it is open to folks who are identified as both theists and atheists. If you don’t want to incur comments from theists, post in the Atheist Hub...theists cannot post there.
Now there is something I learnt today!
@Mac
Comfort is where you find it. We find it in many things, many people, and in many ways. What is comforting is finding a place with like-minded people and or people that are going through what you may be going through. Atheists are as diverse as any demographic there is.
I guess you are seeking such comfort. Know this, believers cannot and will not offer you comfort only platitudes. Their promises are hollow. They are inherently shallow people without substance. Real security comes in knowledge and understanding. I never want to hear that I am "blessed." There is nothing real about that statement. "You're blessed", so fucking what? "I'll pray for you" isn't about providing YOU comfort. It's about being superior to you. It is condescending. Prayer is nothing but a show. It's empty. So why the fuck do you want from religion? Religion offers nothing! Just empty promises!
Mac you could get a lot of peace and solace from believing in Jesus Christ, And you want to know why because he said that he cares he suffered this way we would know him through our suffering. this can be very easy to comprehend but also very deep .By suffering on that cross he identifies with our suffering. We have a place to take suffering to the cross leave it there, and watch what transpires.
Dear Keith/Ab/Chuck...utter bollocks.
That last sentence is incomprehensible. It is meaningless.
@Macintosh Re: Agnostic Believer
Well, I was hoping you would not have to be exposed to this so soon, but it is only fair that you are warned. Agnostic Believer (AB, for short) is our resident TROLL. I advise you ignore him as much as possible, and please keep at least an arm's length away from his cage bars. (A little further, even, if he is in a spitting mood and throwing poo.) He also has a couple of other profiles on the site with "different personalities". (Not very good ones, mind you.) Anyway, just wanted you to know you do not have to feel obligated to respond to him. Welcome to our world. *chuckle*
Except that Jesus probably never existed, the story was made up and Yahweh isn't real... Other than that... You know...
how do you prove JESUS never existed? I would love to hear the true facts man...just the true facts???
MICK,
For one thing the name "Jesus" didn't exist until around 1630 A.D. It was an alias given to the biblical character and incorporated into all future Bibles after that time. Have you noticed that all of the major characters in the Bible have westernized names? The character's original name was supposed to have been "Immanuel" (or Emmanuel) but it was changed two verses later.
Matthew 1:23-25 (TLB) = "23 ‘Listen! The virgin shall conceive a child! She shall give birth to a Son, and he shall be called “Emmanuel” (meaning “God is with us”).’”
24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel commanded and brought Mary home to be his wife, 25 but she remained a virgin until her Son was born; and Joseph named him “Jesus.”"
Yep your right Myk,,, there is no nothing in religion because it's just man made laws...even JESUS disliked religion HIS ways were not the Pharisees ways who walked around like their shit didn't stink. Then JESUS laid out HIS parables and miracles and then the rest is history.
Yes, myths are comforting. My pillow will grant me eternal life and that gives me a lot of comfort.
Yes it's a bit like being all grown up and missing your parents even though they may have been drunken gambling oafs that sent you to work at 9 years old. Something remains hollow inside even though our reason denies the need.
We miss what "might have been, and that which might be", that comforting hand on your shoulder, that murmured, "you're doing OK, son" that's the human condition for most of us. It is, of course the moment that the the carrion crows of religion strike, hoping to find us a bit weak and ready for their humbug.
I am sure if you need to chat many of us here would oblige, you will, I am sure find more genuine empathy, altruism, compassion and understanding in this diverse community than in any nest of theists.
Hey there, Mac. Welcome to the site, fair lady. *tipping my hat* Pleasure to have you here. Like Cyber and Myk said, comfort is where you find it. Truly sorry to hear about your medical problems. Never really easy to deal with such problems, regardless of their severity. However, you are in a good place here, as there are many great folks on this site who can relate to your problems, and they are always willing to help in any way they can. At the very least, there are many mentally stimulating debates to follow, along with a few moments of belly-rolling humor scattered throught just to lighten things up a bit from time to time. Overall, a pretty good place to hang out and chill and interact with like-minded folks. Stay strong, and get well soon.
@Macintosh
I hear you. I envy them their certainty that justice will prevail, At the same time, I want to shake the certainty out of them so they'll look to themselves and each other to deliver justice, not a sky fairy. I had a friend years ago, dead now, whose faith got her through some very hard times- and I mean very hard times indeed. She once said I must think she's a fool, silly, for believing god got her through things. I didn't, I envied her and I told her so. But the envy passes with time. You'll find yourself demonstrating god didn’t get them through things, they got themselves through things. It was all their own work. Some won't accept that, but others will grab it with both hands and feel less helpless, just for a little while.
Mac, I started a thread called "What is being there for someone?" Check it out. It should dispell the idea that you need to believe in a god to cope with things.
Not even GOD says you need HIM to get through things..however it doesn't hurt anyone to have the additional help does it?
Hello Macintosh. My story may offer comfort.
I was raised by a very traditional Christian family, and for almost all my life I have been seeking some spiritual support. I rejected organized religion, but believed that there was something that "looked over us". But after over 40 years of internal debate, I realized that I had asked, but no "God" had answered. Then with the internet came the ability to gather information quickly, and the conclusion was inevitable for me, there is no God.
My family has a history of colon cancer, and sure enough, within a week of my 50th birthday the head surgeon sat me down and explained that if I did not have my large intestine removed, the odds were incredibly high that those many reoccurring polyps would turn cancerous. I agreed, the surgery was scheduled, and December 2010 I went in for what should have been a routine surgery.
Unfortunately, things went sideways, and my life was teetering on the precipice. I suffered great discomfort and pain, I was in the hospital for three weeks, they lost my vital signs twice in one emergency surgery, I am only describing the first three weeks that turned into three months of, let's just say, it was rough. And even today, the changes to my body resulted in me making major life-changes. I am no longer the 6'2" 260 pound construction worker from my past, but rather a frail old man.
How did I endure? That is the key word, you just have to endure the physical process. For my emotional well being, I made every effort to avoid anything negative. I did not watch any news on TV for many many months. I also focused a lot on the wonderful and positive things in this world.
Everything that happened was a result of fine doctors and the other staff at the hospital, my wonderful and supportive wife, and my dogged determination not to give up.
Seven years later, I get regular checkups, my heart rate (and blood pressure) is at the lowest for my age group, I have modified my life to avoid stress, and life is so good there is always a smile on my face. I even wake up singing a tune. Really, no BS. I have found myself singing a tune when I get up. Life is good and I make sure to enjoy every second.
If there was a God to turn to for support, remember that was the same asshole who put you there in the first place.
So I can't think of any reason why you would want to believe in a false thing. Comfort, you say... Take up drinking. That's real, the effects are real... Or video games or reading or walking or art or science or music or dance or chess or... You get the idea. Plenty of real ways to find comfort that don't require belief is silly bronze age stories.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in the Judea-Christian God .you gave some bad advice, for one take up drinking that`s like me saying that now that it`s legal for me to consume recreational marijuana in some states across the USA to go ahead with it. It`s like what has always been said that if you have no objective moral values you get corrupt. The majority of the worlds population believes in some form of a GOD the atheist view point is a minority viewpoint. As for the Judea-Christian God it is much more probable that he exist then not. When you look at prophecy fulfilled and archeology .these are tell tale signs in a particular GOD.
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in the Judea-Christian God ." Or the tooth fairy or pink unicorns. None of them exist, sorry, have proof of existence.
"As for the Judea-Christian God it is much more probable that he exist then not. When you look at prophecy fulfilled and archeology .these are tell tale signs in a particular GOD."
You usual absolute bollocks "billy', Archeology has disproved whole swathes of the OT, I direct you to University of Tel Aviv Archeology Dept. If you can read proper sentences that should help you.
Prophecy , oh please...citation, proof and correlation puhlease you fucking moron.
You are such a blatant liar I am starting to wonder if you're even a Christian at all?
"what has always been said that if you have no objective moral values you get corrupt. "
No you don't, Hitchens's razor applied to your endless bullshit claims.
"The majority of the worlds population believes in some form of a GOD"
A fallacious bare appeal to numbers.
" the atheist view point is a minority viewpoint."
The denial of the christian claim we lived in a geocentric universe was once a minority belief it's no less true for that.
"As for the Judea-Christian God it is much more probable that he exist then not. "
No it's not, Hitchens's razor applied to another of your unevidenced bullshit claims.
"When you look at prophecy fulfilled and archeology"
There are have been no fulfilled prophecies, and archaeology has consistently evidence the bible is errant nonsense. Though the hilarity of you dishonestly lending credence to archaeology now after you have denied all the evidence it has amassed for evolution shows just what a bare faced lair you are. FFS run a spell checker as well, archeology (sic) ffs.
"these are tell tale signs in a particular GOD."
No they're not, Hitchens's razor applied again.
"When you look at prophecy fulfilled" — The most important prophecy of Christianity has failed miserably. Jesus was supposed to be return within the lifespan of his first followers. This deadline is explicitly put on his mouth on the gospels twice ([1] Mt 24:34=Mc 13:30=Lc 21:32; [2] Mt 16:27-28=Mc 8:38-9:1=Lc 9:26-27) and compatible speech is found in other occasions (Mc 10:23; Lc 21:36; Mt 26:64=Mc 14:62). Several other passages register the Christians' belief that they would witness the "Second Coming" (1Ts 4:14-45 etc.), and that they were already living the "last days" — even the "last hour"! (1Jn 2:18 etc.)
That's not correct friend . JESUS HIMSELF said " no one knows but the FATHER " , Mark 13:32-33) .so not sure where got your info from? Secondly it's also written " when the fig tree blooms" the second coming. Now riddle me that one? Nowhere does it relate to any generation of followers, so it will happen.
Matthew 23:39, Luke 18:8, John 14:18, 28-29, Acts 1:11, 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 11:26, Philippians 4:5, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 3:13, 5:23, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, 1 Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 9:28, James 5:7-9, 2 Peter 1:16, 1 John 2:28, 3:2, Revelation 3:11, 22:12, 22:20.
"JESUS HIMSELF said 'no one knows but the FATHER', Mark 13:32-33)" — Insterestingly you OMITTED important detail. Let's take a more careful look at the CONTEXT, shall we?
Jesus tells his disciples that the temple would be destroyed [1-2]. The disciples ask him about the time and sign of "these things" [3-4] (the parallel account in Matthew 24:3 mentions here the second coming, the "end of the age"). For the sake of completion, Jesus then reveals them a whole series of future events culminating with his "glorious" and "powerful" return surfing on clouds on the sky [vs 5-27], and THEN proceeds to answer what they asked, specifically.
First, the "SIGN":
28 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door.
Just like the physilogical changes of a fig tree enables the observer to prognosticate the nearing of the summer, when the disciples saw the things predicted by Jesus above start to happen, that would be a sign that would allow them to recognize the nearing of the end.
Then, the "TIME":
30 Truly I tell you, THIS GENERATION will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened.
That sets the DEADLINE: The whole scenario predicted by Jesus above (including his return) would happen before all the people of his contemporary generation had died.
(Bragging intermission:
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.)
Back to the topic: If the DEADLINE for Jesus' second coming was the end of his contemporary generation, the disciples could relax now and only emend themselves when they got old, right? WRONG!
32 "But about THAT DAY AND HOUR no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.
The end of the contemporary generation was a DEADLINE, but the EXACT TIME, the DAY AND HOUR of the coming, was unknown by everyone (but Yahweh). Jesus' followers should stay "on guard" and "alert" because it could happen at any time now.
And the rest of the chapter elaborate on this idea.
34 It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
35 "Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back —whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn.
36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping.
37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!'"
And that's it for Mark 13.
"not sure where got your info from?" — The very BIBLE, in proper CONTEXT, as seen above.
"Secondly it's also written 'when the fig tree blooms' the second coming. Now riddle me that one?" — Explained above. It's an analogy to illustrate the fact that the nearing of future events can be known when you see something that precedes it happening.
"Matthew 23:39, Luke 18:8, John 14:18, 28-29, Acts 1:11, 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 11:26, Philippians 4:5, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 2:19, 3:13, 5:23, 2 Thessalonians 2:8, 1 Timothy 6:14-15, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 9:28, James 5:7-9, 2 Peter 1:16, 1 John 2:28, 3:2, Revelation 3:11, 22:12, 22:20." — I checked the first half of these passages and none of them deny the DEADLINE established by Jesus above. If you have a passage that you belive does it, do your homework and quote it yourself for the benefit of the readers.
It's Biblical: Jesus won't come back. ;-)
Let me put this simply. When I was young I was always told "God helps those who help themselves". I soon learnt that what that meant was you can believe in god all you want but if you want to get something done, get a better job, get married, or what ever, pray to god, but make it happen yourself. When I'm feeling troubled or in need of comfort I go to nature, particularly the ocean. I sit quietly, think through what is going on in my life and always come away feeling better, because... I helped myself.
I believe its GOD wants us to be proactive, HE is always working around us but the key is in our faith: Believing it to be so,when it's not so ,in order to be so. GOD doesn't work within our realm of wisdom or else HE wouldn't be the GOD of the bible and HE is not some cosmic vending machine we can drop a coin in and wait for the prize.
Re: MICK - "I believe its GOD wants us to be proactive,..."
It's times like these I am glad I didn't get the brain, because after reading that I'm pretty sure it would be pinging around in my metal skull like a pinball right now.
Oh c'mon really your don't have a brain ..your not the real "Tin -man" are you.
@MICK Re: Real Tin-man
Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. Prove it. lol
@MICK Re: Real Tin-man (2)
Oh, okay. Just kidding. I'm really just a Tin-man impersonator. Kinda like the Elvis impersonators in Vegas, ya know. It would be silly to think I am the real Tin-man. I mean, EVERYBODY knows the REAL Tin-man lives over the rainbow in a forest somewhere between Munchkin Land and Emerald City. Duh!
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