Trying to understand Atheism, comments and discussion would be great.

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jwalker524's picture
Trying to understand Atheism, comments and discussion would be great.

Hello everyone, I am not sure if this is the correct forum for this topic, but it seems that it is the only forum I have access to post in, maybe because I did not register as an Atheist? I don't know, this isn't meant to be a debate, but more of an inquiry. I try to understand people the best I can, and religion is an interesting topic to me, so I'm just here seeking information in the form of discussion.

So, I am not and Atheist, but I'm not a religious person either. I would maybe call myself agnostic... but that word isn't really correct either. I don't really believe in a god or gods, nor do I flat out deny their existence, but at the same time I mostly just don't care if there is a god or not. I like to study religion, as I find it a fascinating subject, I also love to study cultures and sciences and food and art... and all are pretty much on the same level. If it was revealed to me for 100% certainty that there was a god, I don't think it would change my opinion at all, nor would my opinion change if it was made 100% fact that there is no god at all... it just doesn't matter to me... so I don't know what you would call that.

Now, on to the reason for my post. I am just trying to learn some things about Atheism. My biggest question is why it seems that Atheists are so angry toward people who don't believe the same as they do? I have quite a few friends that identify as Atheists, and have met people I don't count among my friends who behave the same way. Any time religion is brought up as a topic, they refer to Atheists as enlightened and more intelligent than people who are not Atheists. They tend to be very mocking and insulting to anyone who doesn't believe as they do, and get quite vocal about it.

I'm just curious as to why? Now, I'm not trying to be insulting here, and if I am, I apologize, but I have no other way to pose the question. Isn't flat out denying the possibility of any sort of power in the entirety of the universe being greater than yourself just as ignorant and close minded as flat out accepting that some sort of power does exist? I mean is there any hard visible evidence of either scenario being 100% true? We have not observed every sub-atomic particle in the entire universe, so can there even be proof?

It just seems to me that Atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity (or Islam/Judaism/Hinduism/Buddhism/etc) where it's practitioners are just as zealous and close minded as any fanatic from any religion...

Now, I will as always admit that I might be wrong, absolutely nothing is known as 100% fact (at least in my mind). I also will say that I am basing these questions only on my personal experience with a limited number of people. I understand that not every Atheist is the same (just like not every practitioner of any religion is the same). My goal here is not to be argumentative or to offend anyone (though I understand that people will be offended no matter what you do/say [people in a general sense, not specifically people on this site]), and these questions are asked honestly, without judgement or mockery, they are general curiosities.

So, I would very much appreciate any discussion on the topic, and on the general topic of Atheism at all. Cheers, and I hope your day is wonderful.

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jwalker524's picture
Amber, thank you for taking

Amber, thank you for taking the time to comment. I suppose my question, in response to your answer, is what makes your own belief system automatically superior to the belief system of someone else? Why is it that you believe that a belief in god is so ridiculous or outrageous? For example you mention the "virgin birth", you believe such a thing to be utter nonsense, but someone who believes in it probably thinks that you not believing as they do is just as ridiculous as you think they are... so who is correct? How is one belief automatically superior to another? Neither side has real hard evidence of their claims (no one can prove the existence of god, nor can anyone prove the non-existence of god)...

For the record, I do not believe in the "virgin birth" myself, and do find the whole concept a little absurd, I am just trying to find out why you believe your own beliefs to be superior, and perhaps why you believe what you believe in the first place. Although, that bit is getting off of my original questions (which you really didn't answer, of course not all Atheists are like that, but why are many when they denounce other religions for being the same way?)... but still, it works for the topic, as I am here to understand what I can.

Thank you again for your comment.

Mitch's picture
You mentioned how atheist

You mentioned how atheist think themselves superior; likely some do, but it would be unfair to say that they all do. Some atheist respect people, regardless of belief.

On your agnosticism though, to say "you can't prove, or disprove" is to elevate the concept god to 'plausible' - when there is no reason to think it is.

The cause of ANY event could be god, and it could be aliens - it could also be Free Masons, or Tom Cruise. Ultimately, the most likely cause of any event is the one, that there is the most verifiable evedence for. And the evidence never suggests 'god'.

Ergo, 'god' can be safely removed from any scenario, and for all practical purposes. "God" has no legitimacy in scientific study - or life, in general.

mac19406's picture
ThePortlyJew:

ThePortlyJew:

If i were to say that I have an interstellar ship in my back yard and every weekend I hop on it, visit distant galaxies, and return for work Monday -- would you accept my claim until you are able to show evidence that this is not possible?

Your position ("Neither side has real hard evidence of their claims") attempts to shift the burden of proof and/or assumes that both sides have an equal burden proof. In general, people don’t just accept non-falsifiable claims when they are given (i.e. - the tooth fairy exists, leprechauns exist, Thor exists, [Insert God, Gods, or Greater Power Here] exists). When a non-falsifiable claim is given, the default position is skepticism/disbelief until the group/individual making the claim can provide evidence to prove their claim.

At the moment, the arguments presented in the defense of a god, and the evidence for a “being greater than [ourselves]” is just not there.

We live in a natural universe with natural laws. We don’t know or have all the answers; but, making something up or believing every extraordinary claim given [with no evidence for said claim] until such claim is proven wrong, is not a practical way to live your life.

If I may quote Carl Sagan, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

mac19406's picture
ThePortlyJew [Part II]:

ThePortlyJew [Part II]:

I can not speak for the individuals you have encountered in your life. However, I personally have yet to meet an Atheist who, if given extraordinary evidence of a supernatural power, would deny such evidence.

Imagine every individual on the entire Earth hearing a universal voice from the sky declaring a universal message: “I am God and tomorrow all amputees will have their limbs restored.” The next day this actually happens -- all amputees throughout the world are miraculously regenerated. If an individual still indicates that a supernatural power does not exist after this then you are dealing with a zealot. But, so far, no evidence has been produced for the extraordinary claim of a God or Supernatural Power.

“It just seems to me that Atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity (or Islam/Judaism/Hinduism/Buddhism/etc) where it's practitioners are just as zealous and close minded as any fanatic from any religion...“. This is where we have to make sure we are agreeing on the definition and context of the word ‘religion’.

Religion is defined by Merriam-Webster as: (1.) the belief in a god or in a group of gods, (2) an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods; (3) an interest, in a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group.

In the context you are using the word atheism (as a direct comparison to Christianity/Islam/Judaism/Hinduism/Buddhism/etc), atheism is not equal to a religion.

Darkhenoc1's picture
Hello PortlyJew, I've heard

Hello PortlyJew, I've heard this argument that atheism is a belief too and it's just not true. Simply, a religion requires you to act and think alike. I don't want anyone to act or even think like me. I simply want them to think for themselves. Get it?

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Theist(like a christian)= The

Theist(like a christian)= The belief in the existence of a supreme being that is omniscient, omnipotent and loving.
A-Theist(NOT-theist)= Lacks belief in the theistic claim.(eg: a baby is an atheist because he is not a theist)

Gnostic - "something" = The claim to KNOW "something"
Agnostic -"something" = The declaration of not KNOWING "something"

Gnostic Theist = believes in the theistic claim and claims to KNOW that it is true
Agnostic Theist = believes in the theistic claim but does not claim to KNOW if it is true.

Gnostic A-Theist = lacks belief in the theistic claim and claims to KNOW that it is false.
Agnostic A-Theist = lacks belief in the theistic claim but does not claim to KNOW that it is false.

"I don't really believe in a god or gods, nor do I flat out deny their existence, but at the same time I mostly just don't care if there is a god or not."

You are an Agnostic A-theist then like most atheists.

"why it seems that Atheists are so angry toward people who don't believe the same as they do?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoIo_FUj408

"It just seems to me that Atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pwwvBygoFA
If we really lived like Christianity portrays then this would be the result:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk

No A-theism is not a religion it is the lack of one, there is no dogma just basic common sens.

This is what Christianity is a nut shell:

A mass murderer worshiping cult that demonizes logic to excuse it's big huge lies that it uses to brainwash innocent little children.

If you love child rape then you have no reason to be angry.
Sane people do, so some sane people get angry at this.

When the theists stop mentally raping their children with things that they cannot possibly understand, then and only then we will stop complaining and be angry at this legalized abuse.

ImFree's picture
Here is an additional video

Here is an additional video expressing why atheists are so angry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUI_ML1qkQE

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Yes that is a better video

Yes that is a better video but i wanted it shorter lol

ImFree's picture
LOL I love watching Dusty

LOL I love watching Dusty confronting street preachers. He gets down to business.

Pitar's picture
First, you propose that a

First, you propose that a deity worshiping group has credence based upon ....what? That they claim there truly exists a deity and therefore worshiping it is the proper follow-on action...just because? Then, ad-papers should be written (bible) and distributed furthering this claim on the reality of a deity "just because"? That faith is a fair representation of the truth and should be accepted that way by all? That bloodshed defending their claims is reasonable? These are not your words I strike up. They are an interpretation. And, regardless of theist doctrine and its centuries of human suffering, which you like to study, you don't care about their theism?

Side Note: You set the scene to paint yourself as a neutral then apologize in advance for antagonizing. Then you add the ridiculous statement that you couldn't care less if indisputable proof for or against the existence of a god were revealed because you don't care.

But, all of it is simply because you just want to understand atheists? You might want to attempt an understanding of the person who prompted this thread first, if not yourself.

Jonathan H. B. Lobl's picture
Portly Jew: You have an odd

Portly Jew: You have an odd notion of Atheism and Atheists. An Atheist is someone who lacks belief. This is not belief. This is not dis-belief. Only a lack of belief. This does not, of itself, make people angry. Or strident. Or militant. I'm not angry. Show me a reason to take the God idea seriously. Then we'll talk.

jwalker524's picture
Wow, so many responses, and

Wow, so many responses, and thank you all for your input. I'm sorry that I couldn't respond sooner, as I've been busy. I'll try to address what I can.

@Mitch I said in my original post, that I understand not all atheists feel superior, but the few that I have had interaction with seem to think themselves so. Also, I personally do not accept that the burden of proof lies upon anyone, I just feel that a 100% certainty in anything at all is foolish, as reality as a whole is (in my opinion) illusion, based on perspective of what we see and feel, rather than a hard set thing that exists, and I believe that all things are "possible" however improbable, and am merely researching a group of people's opinions. I do not believe that anything, no matter how absurd can be removed from any equation, but I suppose that is the great thing about humanity, is we are all free to believe what we wish. Thank you for you input.

@Mac19406 Of course I wouldn't automatically take your word on such a matter, and such a thing is provable to be wrong with simple observation. Though I do respect your automatic stance of skepticism, I do not feel the same way. My automatic approach is curiosity, a desire to know more, and a belief that anything at all is possible... perhaps that makes me naive. Thank you for your input.

@Jeff Vella Leone I will respond to you once I have a chance to watch your videos that you have posted, sorry, I just don't want to speak without knowing your response fully, though as always, thank you for your input.

@ImFree I will also watch your video before I respond. Thank you for your input.

@Pitar I do not believe you "should" accept anything based on anything, all reality is subjective. I say that they may have some credence based on my belief that literally nothing is impossible, however improbable. I personally don't believe in any diety, but I won't disparage those who do, as long as they are decent human beings. Also, I've never advocated bloodshed, I find violence in any form (mostly physical I suppose) abhorrent, to harm another (especially bodily harm) in my opinion makes you less than human, and not worthy of life, I am however not naive enough to believe that the world actually works that way. Also, of course I care about THEIR theism, it is a topic I am interested in. I do not believe I was being contrary when I said that I don't care if there is a god or not, but perhaps I didn't explain it properly. If there is a god (especially a Christian god) and it was shown to me with 100% certainty that there is one (though I'm not sure how that would be possible), then I would believe that such a god is unworthy of worship, because frankly, they are an asshole, and I would not change my opinion of them, and conversely if I was shown absolute proof that there is no higher being than human kind, again, it does not effect me in any way, and my opinion of a purely subjective reality does not change. So why would my statement of not caring be ridiculous? And yes, I would like to understand Atheists, as much as I would like to understand all things, even if that goal is unobtainable by myself. As to understanding myself? That is the goal, isn't it, the thing we all seek in some form or another... and by the way, no person in particular sparked this thread, just a random facebook post by a random person I don't know well. The site advertises itself as a place to ask questions, so I asked. As to apologizing in advance for being antagonizing, some questions, even if asked purely from a curiosity standpoint, offend some people, and I do my very best not to offend people when I can help it. Regardless, thank you for your input, I appreciate it.

@Jonathan H. B. Lobl I may have an odd notion of Atheism and Atheists, it's why I'm here, though I don't know how Atheism is a lack of belief, as you believe that there is no higher power, and that is a belief. A belief in nothing is still a belief, everyone believes in something... even if that something is nothing. And I can't show you a reason to take the God idea seriously, as I have no desire or reason to change your beliefs, and I don't have any such reason anyway, other than my own belief that all opinions are equally valid, and reality is subjective. Thank you kindly for your response, it is very much appreciated.

So, thank you all for your input, I really do appreciate it. I'll watch those videos and respond to those I didn't respond to, and I hope you all have a wonderful evening. Cheers.

jwalker524's picture
Ok, I've had an oppurtunity

Ok, I've had an oppurtunity to watch the videos posted.

@Jeff Vella Leone The first video you posted made sense to me, however I would argue that anger is an inappropriate response to any situation. Anger is an emotion that serves no purpose other than to increase our own personal stress levels (in my opinion, of course). Maybe I only feel that way because I am incapable of feeling anger anymore, but anger has been something that has effected my life very deeply in the past, either way, regardless of what you feel about a matter, in my opinion, anger is never an appropriate response. Video 2: I would think that this takes things to an extreme and absurd level, not all religious people knock on doors or even believe that a lack of religious upbringing makes society a worse place. I personally know christians who march in gay pride parades, and vote liberal. There are exceptions to every "rule" and I would say the majority of religious people don't say anything at all, let alone harass other people. On the other side I have met Athiests that harass other people just as much as religious people, all "rules" have exceptions, and in my opinion forcing your beliefs (or attempting to) on someone else, no matter what those beliefs are, is obnoxious. The video posted is extreme, and variance too much to any side is destructive to humanity, in my opinion. The third video I couldn't finish, as it was irritating, so I won't comment on that too much, though I don't believe that being "forgiven" by some sort of "god" (that can't be proven to exist or not exist) releases you from legal responsibility for your actions against another human, especially when that action is violence (which in my opinion makes you simply not human anymore, and not worthy of respect).

@ImFree I will admit freely that I did not watch the entire video, as I do not have the time right now, but what I did see still does not justify anger as an emotion in any way (again just my opinion here). I would also say that bilboard campaigns and trying to "enlighten" others is not something I find acceptable. My opinion is, believe what you believe, but don't expect anyone to feel the same way you do, and most certainly don't preach anything to anyone who doesn't want to hear it. Let people be, and believe what they want. That applies to religious folk too, keep to yourself, and don't let your belief in anything effect anyone other than you. I understand that the world doesn't work that way, but anger is still useless. Your opinion (and literally every belief is opinion) does not matter to anyone but you, and if someone stresses about your opinion, they aren't worthy of consideration (again, in my opinion). So, I have bookmarked the video to watch the rest when I have time, but that is my initial opinion.

I suppose my issue isn't with Atheism vs. Religion, but rather a dislike of people trying to influence someone else, or thinking that they know anything at all about anything... all things (in my opinion) are subjective, nothing is real, nothing is 100%, nothing is perfect and without flaws. Anger is useless, violence is abhorrent, and reality is subjective... again, in my opinion.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
"anger is an inappropriate

"anger is an inappropriate response to any situation."
Anger in the sens that you should feel angry about something, not in the sens that you should be violent.
I feel angry at someone who rapes little boys. It does not mean that I will let my anger influence my judgments.
You seem to imply the assumption that if someone is angry is automatically biased and will not act rationally.
Also anger has it's positive side, it lets you be motivated enough to do something about it rather then just let it go.
You see a boy getting raped, if you are angry enough it can give you the courage you need to help in the situation.

You seem anti-angry person, you should back up those claims, because anger is part of nature and you need to make piece with your own anger and not suppress it.

Video 2:
"I would think that this takes things to an extreme and absurd level"
No it doesn't those are things that the theists do and no atheist have done because atheism is not a religion.
You claimed that "I have met Atheists that harass other people just as much as religious people" not in the way described in the video.
I have never seen atheists knocking on doors to convince people to become atheists I am sorry.
If you want to make such claims please support them.

3 rd video:
This is showing how unjust the christian god is, and how we as human beings are much more just.
It gives god the place of the judge and depending in the christian doctrine, god(judge) will forgive your sins if you accept his gift(believe). The gift is the torture(beating) of his own son and if you refuse (to believe) in this gift you will be punished for eternity.

"releases you from legal responsibility for your actions against another human, especially when that action is violence(which in my opinion makes you simply not human anymore, and not worthy of respect)."
Exactly, god wants you to be irresponsible because his forgiveness is all that matters.
You could have killed people everyday of your long life, if you repent 2 minutes before you die, you go to heaven anyway.

"dislike of people trying to influence someone else"
Do you dislike every human being?
Everybody will influence you in some way either by wearing a nice dress or saying something interesting etc...

I think what you mean, is people that have the agenda to convert you to a particular religion.
Since you seem to have included atheism in the religion basket, this seems to be what you are implying.

Well get it into you head, Atheism is not a religion but a state of being.
Being not a theist. A= NOT

an orange = a round juicy fruit
not an orange = anything except an orange. even a human is not an orange.

theist = a belief in a theistic god
A-theist(not-theist) = anything which is not a Theist,, yes even a baby.

- It is not a belief, it is the lack of belief.
- It is the default position, the position you were born with, you were born atheist.(not a theist)
- It is the skeptic position.

EDIT
and good people SHOULD teach other people to be skeptic in life for their own good.
Religion tries to make people not skeptic with regards to religion and that is why atheists get angry because it hinders society and then you see the negative results like:
-Priests raping little boys and get away with it.
-Theists falling for very obvious religious scams
-Religion effecting politics like religion paying no tax.
-debating about giving some humans their own rights or not(we would not need to debate this if it wasn't for religion)
-etc...

jwalker524's picture
@Jeff Vella Leone Regarding

@Jeff Vella Leone Regarding the anger thing, you and I are going to just have to disagree on that point. I don't think anger is necessary for motivation, people should just help each other whether they are angry or not (in your example of stopping a rape). I will admit, though, that I may simply not understand the emotion itself, as I don't feel it. I'm not saying that from a position of "superiority" it is just a fact, because of the medications I am on I don't feel anger... or quite a few other emotions, for that matter, and I haven't for some time now, so I may just be coming from a position of not understanding.

To your second point, maybe I misspoke, or at least misrepresented my point. I'm not saying that religious people don't do those things, they very much do, but the majority of religious people DON'T do those things (most people on the planet are religious in some way, and most of them keep their mouth shut about it to strangers), just like I'm sure the majority of atheists don't harass people either. And no, no atheist will be knocking on your door and telling you to be an atheist, but there are many videos of them being jackasses at other people's religious functions... which is still harassment and jackassery.

To your third point, yes I misspoke again, my grasp of the English language isn't perfect, and I do at times assume that people can read my intent rather than the literal words, but I guess you know what they say about assuming things, of course people influence other people by just existing, you do understand what I meant though. As to atheism not being a religion, sure, again words fail me, it isn't a technical religion based on a dictionary definition, but to say it is a lack of belief? That isn't true at all, every thought or opinion you have is a belief, usually based on your own perception of the world.

To your Edit, perhaps I have my definition of what "skeptic" is wrong, I thought you meant an automatic doubt/disbelief in anything presented, and my point was that the default attitude (in my opinion) should be curiosity and study instead... maybe we are saying the same thing? I don't know. Also I never said religion has never caused bad things in the world, but if you think that pedophiles wouldn't molest/rape children if there was no religion, I... I don't know what to say to that, because I don't believe that would be the case, and I believe without religion there would still be racists/nationalists/bigots who would deny rights to other people, and that people would still scam people out of money and other things, and people still would get away with not paying taxes even if no religion existed... just my opinion though, I suppose.

On a final note, the fact that atheism is the default position when born is a truth, doesn't mean that it is necessarily correct, babies and children also pretty much believe whatever they are told by any adult without inquiry... and I don't think that is a good thing even if it is the "default".... and again, thank you for your input, I do appreciate it, this discussion is quite fun :). Cheers.

@amber I'm just going to ignore you, because reading over some of the things you've written, I don't believe that you are an atheist, and if you are it would seem that you are a bit of a troll, and I don't think you are adding anything constructive to this discussion. Cheers anyway.

@Narlathotep Thank you for pointing out to me the "trollish" tendencies of amber, I appreciate it. Hope you have a good day, Cheers.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
"so I may just be coming from

"so I may just be coming from a position of not understanding."
I tend to agree to that.
If you cannot experience anger, then I do not think you are the best qualified to make a judgement about anger.

"I'm not saying that religious people don't do those things, but the majority of religious people DON'T"
They do, they go to mass and repeat GOD IS LOVE every single day.(which is a false statement, the christian god is an evil mass murderer tyrant)
You find No atheist saying "THERE IS NO GOD" everyday as if he needs to solidify his belief not based on evidence but brainwashing.
Yes we agree some examples are the minority but you cannot ignore the minority like you are doing.
Atheism does not have that minority either. Atheists do not have brainwashing extemism like that,
Evil is found on both sides true but not brainwashing things, and that video shows to you that religion is about brainwashing people with mass, knocking on doors, etc. It is evangelical, Atheism teaches skepticism which is a good natural quality.
And you need to be a skeptic also with atheists, that is the good about good qualities, they are self testing. Not like Theism.

"but if you think that pedophiles wouldn't molest/rape children if there was no religion"
I said that pedophiles won't get away with it if there was no religion, do not misunderstand what I said.
The Church has been shielding and protecting those pedophiles by moving them from one country to the next.
The criminal organization we call the church would not exist anymore if it wasn't for religion.

"and people still would get away with not paying taxes even if no religion existed"
Again misunderstanding what i said, this is not "getting away with not paying taxes" but it legally paying no taxes, it is different.
Some people get away with murder today, that doesn't mean that we should make murder legal do we?

"To your Edit, perhaps I have my definition of what "skeptic" is wrong"
Skeptic:
"The definition of a skeptic is someone inclined to doubt or question rather than just believe matters that are generally accepted."
An Atheist is a skeptic position since he does not believe the theistic claim.

"default attitude (in my opinion) should be curiosity and study instead"
That is being open minded and interested.

Yes you should be both skeptic and open minded, but this does not support your argument but changes the subject.

I never claimed that the default position is the right or wrong position, it is the position you start with. to show you that you started as an atheist and there was nothing evil or biased about it. it is not a religion, but the lack of one.

"babies and children also pretty much believe whatever they are told by any adult without inquiry"
Yes the moment they do they stop being atheists but become theists.
"and I don't think that is a good thing" you should teach your children to be skeptics even about religion.

"As to atheism not being a religion, sure, again words fail me, it isn't a technical religion based on a dictionary definition, but to say it is a lack of belief?"
Yes, it is the lack of belief in a theistic god.
I dare you to show otherwise.
This is a fact you cannot deny.

What is your opinion that atheism is?

I explained to you that A= NOT in Greek where the word originates. So atheist just means NOT Theist, anything which is not a theist is an atheist.
You require 2 things to be a Theist:

-The ability to believe in something.
-The belief in a theistic god.

If you do not believe in a theistic god you are NOT a theist so you are an Atheist.
If you do not have the ability to believe you are also NOT a theist so you are an Atheist.

A-something is not a belief but NOT Something.
I gave you the example of the orange.
Not an orange does not need to be a fruit but also a human is not an orange.

I hope it is clear now.

EDIT:
Apart from what I said I also think you have a problem in what LACK of Belief means and you are mixing it up with a belief.
Here is a video that will help you understand it better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk

mac19406's picture
@ThePortlyJew – A reply to

@ThePortlyJew – A reply to the following

@Mac19406 Of course I wouldn't automatically take your word on such a matter, and such a thing is provable to be wrong with simple observation. Though I do respect your automatic stance of skepticism, I do not feel the same way. My automatic approach is curiosity, a desire to know more, and a belief that anything at all is possible... perhaps that makes me naive. Thank you for your input.

Addendum to my original statement:

If i were to say that I have an invisible & incorporeal [completely stealth & undetectable to everyone but myself; and, only when I am alone) interstellar ship in my back yard and every weekend I hop on it, visit distant galaxies, and return for work Monday -- would you accept my claim until you are able to show evidence that this is not possible?

How would you now prove this to be wrong with 'simple observation' now that the interstellar ship in question is “invisible & incorporeal [completely stealth & undetectable to everyone but myself; and, only when I am alone)?” Much the same way claims for gods & messages from gods are postulated.

A belief “that anything at all is possible” does make a person “naive” – I am glad we agree on this – and I was happy to see that you indicated that some type of 'observation' (or in another word, “evidence”) is needed to prove a non-falsifiable claim. Without some type of 'observation' or 'evidence' the non-falsifiable claim is not to be believed.

ThePragmatic's picture
@ThePortlyJew

@ThePortlyJew

Since you seem to think that atheism is a belief, I'm posting a prefabricated text I wrote about the word "Atheism", in an attempt to clarify.

---

"The word - Atheism"

The words Atheist and Atheism is often misunderstood and misused.
Many people seem to think that it refers to an alternative organized religion, or a hate-based faith. It is also sometimes used as a generic term to refer to belief in foreign gods. Others seem to think it is to be associated with anarchism, satanism or that that the word itself is evil. Some people recoil in fear and disgust at the mere mention of the word, which is a clear indicator that they do not understand what it means.

The definition of the word Atheism is fairly simple:
"Disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings." or "Rejection of belief in God or gods."

The word derives from the Greek "atheos" which means "without god" or "godless".

It is a strange word, as it is a word for not being something.
There is no corresponding word for a non-heterosexual, non-scientist, non-astrologer or non-communist.
The words non-believer or disbeliever does not do justice, as it could refer to any kind of belief. Non-theist or the direct translation from the Greek word, is much more accurate: Godless.

"Atheism is a religion"

No, it most definitely is not. A religion is an organized movement with some form of worship, while atheism refers to "not believe in a deity". Atheists does not have a bible, holy texts or traditions to adhere to.
You could argue that "Atheists believes that there is no God and therefor atheism is a belief". But no, that is not accurate either.
Atheism does not mean that the mind is closed and locked to a belief, instead most atheists would believe in that which can be proved, corroborated or is statistically most likely to be true.

An example:
"I don't believe that Elvis is still alive or that extraterrestrial aliens are kidnapping and probing random Americans."
In such a case, "not believing" is neither a belief nor a religion. If it were, it would mean that all religious people, apart from their own religion have a separate religion or a belief for everything that they do not believe in, including all things we haven't even thought of yet.

Johnny Moronic's picture
You start out your second

You start out your second paragraph claiming that you are not an atheist. Then within a couple of sentence of that, you demonstrate that you are, in fact, an atheist. "I don't really believe in a god or gods..." Newsflash. You are an atheist. The only qualification an atheist needs is a lack of belief in gods. You have not asserted a firm belief in god. And therefore you are... you guessed it, an atheist. Welcome!

aeirihannah's picture
This should she'd some light

This should she'd some light https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wk-PY2dBKaA

jwalker524's picture
Hello everyone,

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry for the lack of comment, but I was at my mother's house for the mother's day weekend. I appreciate and am grateful for all of the responses here, and I appreciate the feedback.

I'm going to bow out of the conversation though, as it seems most of what is being discussed is a language issue, definitions and such, and as I've said my grasp of English isn't the greatest, so I've got no "dog in this fight" as it were.

Again, thank you for your time, it is appreciated and I hope all of you have a great day, and if any of you are mother's I hope your Mother's Day was a good one (if you care about such things). Cheers all.

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