I was born and raised Catholic, though church was a Sunday thing. Sounds like Mikhael and I had the same CCD teachers. I was never taught the reasons behind anything. Everything was dumbed down. I was never once in all my years in CCD taught about the Real Presence (kind of a big thing in the Catholic Church). I didn’t even know the Church taught that until hearing about it in college from some non Catholic. In college I stopped going to church all together, didn’t know what I believed, and didn’t give it much thought.

After college I started wondering about things like the meaning of life. I poured myself into philosophy books searching. I met a Catholic who perhaps due to my own past Catholic experience I was kind of angry with. I actually made fun of him berating him with accusatory questions about why the Church taught such stupid things. He remained calm and had answers for everything asked. Answers I don’t ever remember hearing in all my 20 some years. Long story short. I came back to the Church. It changed my life. I think her teachings are beautiful and wise AND very misunderstood! And now I wish others could experience the joy of the Truth of Jesus Christ as well.

Mikhael said: “Catholicism only looks true through the carefully polished and manicured stories Catholicism presents to its sheep.”

I disagree. I am well aware Christ’s Church has both a divine and human element. The human element being fallible and quite frankly capable of some horrific stuff. That’s what happens when God uses broken, ordinary fallible people.

"Even the sins of the Catholic Church are evidence of its truth. Its failures only point to the great value of its precepts. The world cannot abide the Church failing because the world unconsciously knows that the truth it proclaims must be upheld. Chesterton says that the sins of Christianity are one of the doctrines of Christianity. In other words, our sins point to one of our sacraments: confession. He says, "The Church is not justified when her children do not sin, but when they do.""
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/ever...

Do you often show up at parties you weren't invited to?

Hello Rory321, welcome to Atheist Republic. In my opinion, this is a place to have conversations and learn.

I was raised into a devout christian family, but fortunately my little sect was not one built on hate and fear. In my very late teens I came under the impression that church was more of a social club than a place to connect with my god, so I left organized religion but kept searching for something, anything spiritual. I did a lot of investigating, but after forty years, I decided to read the bible in it's entirety. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, and I realized I was an atheist.

Rory321, the truth and reality is very important to me. For me, I would rather live in harsh reality instead of a comforting lie. That is the land of drug addicts, alcoholics, and many other delusional people.

"religion is the most comforting and convenient thing if you want it to be"

But is it true?

And why not just become a sports fan (Bears), to achieve the same feeling of community and joy?

Given my formative experiences, I can only say that I was always an atheist, though I attended church services with my family occasionally and was raised in a household where there was a belief in God, but with a very weak adherence to anything "religious." Religious adherence and practices - the things I saw in church - only ever confused me, and I found it all incredibly boring. I was really naive growing up, and thought that I was "Christian" because that's what my parents hailed as. I myself knew next to nothing about the lore (I didn't really pay much attention in church - as I said, it was always incredibly boring). So if anything, what "drew me into" the religious rigmarole was the idea of being a part of a community like that, and being able to identify with others on some (assumed) intrinsic level. So there were several years I would hail as "Christian" if asked, but I know positively that I never once truly "believed" in anything godly/supernatural/miraculous. Again - it all just seemed really confusing to me. This may be because no one ever bothered to instruct me on the finer details and explanations that I now know are the cornerstone of those of religious mind who try to ease the concerns of skeptical minds - and I am actually quite glad that I didn't encounter those ideas and excuses until I was well past the point of those things being strongly impressed upon me. Encountering and interacting with the theists around me, I feel as though I dodged quite a hefty and terrible bullet - you know... the one they DIDN'T dodge and now have lodged in the core of their brains. With the absolutely mind-numbing levels of tomfoolery that I have witnessed religious adherents get up to, I can only be grateful that I didn't somehow end up one of them.

Indoctrinated Lutheran Missouri Synod, the whole fire and brimstone experience, it still haunts me over half a century later.

Eventually just realized that I never really bought into the whole woo-ness of it and left it behind. Still have to deal with the family that still believes that crap.

Perhaps I can have Joy, prophet of the one-true-religion, set their protestant asses straight. Would you do that for me Joy?

I was never attracted to Catholicism, most assuredly not while I was a practising member.

Like most believers of any religion, my Catholicism was an accident of birth. I was born in 1947 into a devout Bog Irish Catholic Family. In my opinion, Irish Catholicism was at that time was the most ignorant, bigoted, superstitious and hateful branch of a pernicious faith.

At that time, the official attrition rate for Catholics in Australia was 25%, which suggests much higher in truth.

People who remain in religion of their parents tend not to think very deeply about either their beliefs or world view, ever.** A relatively small number do have such thoughts and go looking for answers. Some, like Joy, become immersed in theology and apologetics. An ever dwindling number of those join the clergy. Others ,like Joy but perhaps mores so ,become Catholic Intellectuals . Perhaps joining Catholic organisations such as Opus Dei or (here) Knights Of The Southern Cross.( I was invited, but declined to join)

Others, such as myself leave the Catholic church specifically and all religion generally becoming atheist . The reason people become atheist has always intrigued me. I have never been convinced that it is always or even usually a case of eduction, intellect and reason. I have alway claimed that for myself, as do most if not all atheists on this forum . I have always had niggles.

The pioneer psychologist Carl Jung, claimed our most powerful beliefs are the direct result of personal experience*** . I interpret that as meaning that our strongest beliefs/non beliefs/positions are based on emotion, not reason.

Not for nothing did Ignatius Of Loyola (and others) write; "Give me the child until the age of 7 and I care not who has the man"

One of my personal labels is that of skeptic. For me, 'skeptic' doe snot mean 'scoffer' A skeptic is one who questions everything . Most especially, this skeptic tries to question the things of which he is most certain. Also to avoid certainty as much as possible. That includes questioning the basis of my atheist position.

Something which makes me question all the more is seeing how defensive people here (including me) tend to become when confronted by an apologist such as Joy, who does not seem to be a troll. Rather a differently educated person as certain of her views as we tend to be defending ours. It is my suspicion that written replies on this forum have an inverse relationship to the need to defend oneself---- At times I think an undeserved attitude of personal superiority is evident, certainly from me.

OF course some may simply enjoy playing intellectual games. Especially when the opponent is a true believer rather than the trolls we get ,who tend to be ignorant not very bright.

Over a lifetime, I have had a few very smart priests and even one evangelical as friends who were fun to be around. Each side simply needed to do some navigating in conversation whilst staying true to oneself. Not always easy. ,.

**In my experience

*** my reference "Memories , Dreams and Reflections" Autobiography of Carl Jung