Why are you an Atheist or a Christian?

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Jeff - “Provide the papers

Jeff - “Provide the papers that show that matter is actually being destroyed. Not that a book uses the word "destroyed" somewhere.”

You asked me to cite the text books, I did. After I cite the articles, I wonder what you will demand next? Could you tell me now so I can get a head start on that?

Jeff - “Book authors are not scientists in most cases.”

The two books I cited were written by physicists. One of them has taught physics for 35+ years at Yale and chaired the department there for some time.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Jeff - “Provide the papers

Jeff - “Provide the papers that show that matter is actually being destroyed."


“IN an earlier paper the authors proposed a simple method of calculating the integral cross section for the radiation of a photon with arbitrary energy occurring when an electron-positron pair annihilates into a pair of other particles.” - http://jetp.ac.ru/cgi-bin/dn/e_021_06_1145.pdf

“We calculate in the present paper the photon emission cross sections for several annihilation processes.” - http://jetp.ac.ru/cgi-bin/dn/e_021_06_1145.pdf

“For these fields [omitted non-ascii creation/annihilation operators] destroy/create the particles/antiparticles with large momentum” - http://arxiv.org/pdf/hep-ph/0202088.pdf

“The second quantized operators [omitted non-ascii creation/annihilation operators] create/destroy electrons of spin σ in orthogonalized Wannier-like orbitals” - http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0207483.pdf

“The operators [omitted non-ascii creation/annihilation operators] and their hermitian conjugates destroy/create electrons with momentum k and spin σ” - http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0207483.pdf

Instead Ψ has to be treated as an operator that creates or destroys particles. http://catdir.loc.gov/catdir/samples/cam034/98051723.pdf

“Thus fermions and antifermions can only be created or destroyed in pairs.” http://catdir.loc.gov/catdir/samples/cam034/98051723.pdf

“if we try to do this, we create electron-positron pairs from the vacuum and we cannot distinguish our original electron from these newly created electrons.” - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369702106717886

“where [omitted non-ascii creation/annihilation operators] destroys (creates) electrons,” http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/019621.pdf

5 minutes of searching Jeff...

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Again with this strawman

Again with this strawman

"Up until now no one ever proved that anything was created out of nothing and nothing was destroyed to create anything."

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
"You asked me to cite the

"You asked me to cite the text books, I did."

yes i did and i was wrong, there. Happy now.

They do not support your claim that matter is destroyed for a fact or that it becomes nothing.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Jeff - "They do not support

Jeff - "They do not support your claim that matter is destroyed for a fact or that it becomes nothing."

I'll try one more time Jeff. First off, all electrons at rest have the same energy, from Einstein's famous equation, which works out to 0.511 MEV. All positrons at rest have the same energy, also 0.511 MEV.

When an electron and positron collide, 2 powerful photons are emitted in opposite directions. When the energy of each of these photons is measured they are found to contain 0.511 MEV. So:

Initial energy = the energy of 1 electron + 1 positron = 0.511MEV + 0.511MEV = 1.022 MEV

Final energy = the energy of the 2 photons = 0.511MEV*2 = 1.022 MEV

Change in energy = ΔE = Final energy - Initial energy

ΔE = 1.022MEV - 1.022MEV = 0MEV
The energy in the system did not change, energy was conserved,.
However if as you contend, the electron and positron were not destroyed, we must include their energy in the final energy calculation:

Initial energy = the energy of 1 electron + 1 positron = 0.511MEV + 0.511MEV = 1.022 MEV

Final Energy = the energy of the 2 photons + the energy of 1 electron + 1 positron = 0.511MEV + 0.511MEV + 0.511MEV*2 = 2.044MEV

ΔE = 2.044MEV - 1.022 MEV = 1.022 MEV

The energy in the system increased, energy was not conserved! In fact---if this was correct---you could just repeat the process. Each time generating an extra 1.022 MEV. A free energy machine!
You see, in this process, the only way to preserve the conservation of energy is if the electron and positron are destroyed.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
I don't know all the energy

I don't know all the energy involved and all the assumptions taken for that calculation but just because something doesn't add up to your expectations it does not mean that it is wrong.

Many new discoveries were discovered in this way,

Also, if you consider the my real contention, that an electron disappears instead of being destroyed into nothing, then you would not be able to detect it. for you it is not there. Neither it's energy.

This thing happens with black holes too, we know it is there but it is not seen.
Black holes are surly part of the quantum world and we still haven't discovered their part in this.

Maybe what we call dark energy or dark matter, then no one can even detect but come to if from formulas, has something to do with it.

As I said this is theoretical physics, claiming anything for certain on matter is just arrogance.

If you meant for it to be conserved, "be seen" and not destroyed into nothing, then we had a misunderstanding.

Johnathan Graham's picture
I consider myself an Atheist,

I consider myself an Atheist, though, recently I've been indulging in Buddhism. I recommend everybody actually takes a look at Buddhism if you're an atheist. Study the religion, and it actually has scientific basis behind it surprisingly(Medication helps fill grey matter, etc). One of my friends, is a savant in it. He's studied it a lot, went to Tibet to study with monks for 10 years. It's incredible, it honestly is the only religion I find that has some valid information behind it.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
yea some type of Buddhism is

yea some type of Buddhism is not even a religion.

Like the original Gnostic Christians (which were wiped out), the focus was on the self and knowledge.
They mostly likely had the same origin of Buddhism and got turned to be Gnostic Christians in the roman period.

Christianity was a roman invention to create a religion that unifies the people under 1 god.
A religion of empires.


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