A question of politics for Americans here.

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toto974's picture
A question of politics for Americans here.

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

Since Trump has been elected and given much power to christian nationalists, some discussions here, about the electoral college has started.

So the question here is, knowing american political tradition, what can we do about? Does the german model be applied to the USA?

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arakish's picture
You mean we have politics

You mean we have politics here in America? I always thought it was nothing but bickering session to see who could get elected. Then they figure out how to rape us Americans for as much money as they can before they get voted out.

Talyyn: "So the question here is, knowing american political tradition, what can we do about? Does the german model be applied to the USA?"

As a joke, but also kind of serious, I say we nuke them all and let anarchy rule. But seriously, we need a much smaller government. We need a government whose sole purpose is to serve the people instead of themselves. We need a government where lobbying is illegal under penalty of death. We need a government that has personnel who have at least one Science degree. We need a government run by people who are actually intelligent.

How is that for a start?


toto974's picture
So... What about a world

So... What about a world revolution lol... I do not know how much in size does the American government compare to that of european countries. I mean here in France, the government is pretty big and we think it is fine.

Lobbying is one of the main problem and it is why a small, but powerful "elite" buy the government.

LogicFTW's picture
Several states have already

Several states have already adopted new laws where the states electoral votes for president goes to which ever nominee wins the popular vote. With quite a few more considering new law in this area.

So a small nudge towards new tradition and getting rid of the old traditions (like electoral college for potus.)

Nyarlathotep's picture
While that might be an

While that might be an improvement, it still smacks of plurality voting.

LogicFTW's picture
Agreed, still tons of issues

Agreed, still tons of issues with the entire election process. Citizens united vs SEC being one of them.

Tjdudeman's picture
Personally, I only find trump

Personally, I only find trump as offensive as the general population he represents. What is really obnoxious about American politics to me is the tribal mentality we seem to be slipping into. Not that there was no divide before. But the divide grows greater and seems to rely on reactionaries and radicals in every camp. Trump is merely a symptom of a much larger issue you’ll find throughout the American electorate.

toto974's picture
In addition, i've read that

In addition, i've read that there ever was a sens of anti-intellectualism in american society from the very start.

jay-h's picture
I think you worry too much

I think you worry too much about Christian nationalists. I'm more concerned with the increasing socialist/communist leanings of the Dems as well as the language and thought control from the 'progressives'.

Frankly I'm glad someone is fighting back.

Bob Lawson's picture


"I think you worry too much about Christian nationalists. I'm more concerned with the increasing socialist/communist leanings of the Dems as well as the language and thought control from the 'progressives'.

Frankly I'm glad someone is fighting back."

Agree completely. I think Obama did far more to divide the country along race lines (not sure that your saying that, but I am). The right is no threat at all--they are all calling for freedom of speech. The real danger lies with the totalitarian left that attempts to shut down anyone who disagrees with them. I heard today that the leader of the Proudboys just had his personal bank account shut down. This is a dangerous attempt to silence the group by some Leftie at Chase Bank. This is really not good.

toto974's picture
@Bob L.

@Bob L.

Explain the totalitarian character of the Left.

Freedom of speech, or freedom to spout and act on their bigoted values without fear of consequences? I mean for the conservative and the far right.

toto974's picture


I worry because;

-Nationalism seems to be a very bad idea.
-I like when policies are based on rationality and evidence.
-The combinaison of these two ideologies in the most powerful country of the planet is a threat for all of the other people.

I always wonder why Americans are so disgusted of socialism, i am from a country with a mixed economy and it is not bad.

LogicFTW's picture
A whole generation or 2 of

A whole generation or 2 of people in the US were raised on that communism = bad evil in all forms. Namely the baby boomer generation during the cold war.

NameRemovedByMod's picture
Socialism is taxpayer funds

Socialism is taxpayer funds being used collectively to benefit society as a whole, despite income, contribution, or ability.

Socialism already exists here and the republicans that the fools here think are so great have socialized healthcare, but won't allow it for everyone. Aren't those terrorists great in the gop party and yes trump is a domestic terrorist. The Democrats have been fighting for socialized healthcare for all, and that is a fact!

Some facts for you right wing nuts!

Republicans in congress warn us of the evils of government-run health care, most of them are covered by taxpayer-funded government-run health care. You literally pay for their health care while they tell you that paying for your neighbors health care through a public option or single-payer system is socialism. They are 100% correct, it is socialism. They're just not telling you that they like their socialist health care, they just don't think you should have it. They are afraid you might like it better than the private insurance you have now that funds their campaigns and gives them money to push what is best for them and not for you. Members of congress are free to opt out of their evil government health care, but most of them don't because deep down, they like socialism too.

Other American socialist programs we have, libraries, police, fire fighters, garbage pick up, military, highways and roads,postal service,CIA,FBI,public parks, public landfills,EPA, War (which should be cut),musuems,jail, the VA,corporate subsidies (which should also be cut),every elected government official!,food stamps (oh how evil we want people to eat when we take away their living),medicaid/medicare, the courts, the GI bill,city and state zoos and parks, the Hoover Dam,the IRS, the FDA, the Pentagon, city buses,welfare, WIC,FEMA, Amtrak,OSHA,DHHS,Census,Customs and border patrol that does not need 5.7 billion for a racist wall,secret service (trump would not want cuts there, would he?)National Weather Service, Law, etc.

But healthcare for all? How dare we want that!

I pledge no allegiance to any bible or flag. I take a knee as well! In this horrific time that we have a president who is full of lies (over 8,000 recorded, scandals, indictments of almost every member of his cabinet, the obvious dealings with russia, the encouragement of violence against other races as he is a racist, the 13 year old girl he was accused of raping before taking office, the women he sexually assaulted, the tax scheme to benefit himself and other millionaires and billionaires, the mocking of people with disabilities, the violence he encouraged at his rallies, the de-regulations and the shutdown that he cause and took credit for that cost this country 11 billion how could anyone with conscience speak of him in any positive way? It is disgusting and pathetic and what you would expect from a christian, which is why I believe the one defending him and the gop party in this group are nothing more than christian trolls trying to shift the balance while demonizing the left without one fact! Just ludicrous conspiracy garbage!

So in exercising my freedom of speech, I say FUCK OFF TROLLS!

David Killens's picture
"I always wonder why

"I always wonder why Americans are so disgusted of socialism, i am from a country with a mixed economy and it is not bad."

There are a few socialist programs in the USA, but if you apply that label, it triggers a conditioned response. Too many think "socialism > communism > ruin". Such programs as the interstates and military destroy that argument.

Where I come from, you do not vote on just one of two options, each determined by political dogma. In most cases, the politician who wins is the one who presents the best solution to the problem no matter what label is applied.

Health care is one topic. I live where we have universal single payer healthcare, and I truly wonder why it is not embraced and immediately enacted in the USA. Actually I do not wonder, because big money (instead of the citizenry) control Washington. Obama tried to institute it, and met resistance at every turn. And now Trump is tearing it down, because the health insurance companies paid him and told him to.

Each political dogma has it's benefits and handicaps. The best solution is to pick and choose which policy yields the best solution to the problem, no matter what it may be labelled. For example, rapid expansion is where capitalism shines, while communism and monarchy provide a stable economy.

My favorite example are the interstates, socialism at it's extreme. Yet those interstates are the backbone of the economy and allow capitalism to reach it's full potential.

Sky Pilot's picture


"I always wonder why Americans are so disgusted of socialism, i am from a country with a mixed economy and it is not bad."

Americans have been indoctrinated to hate socialism because it might benefit black people. It has to do with race and not necessariy with anything else. For example, at one time black people couldn't get unemployment benefits unless the black community put up at least half of the funds to pay for them. And when FDR created the Social Security program it was structured in such a way that most black people were excluded. That thinking has persisted today in the call to do away with the ACA and food stamp programs.

All issues in America are based on race.

Blacks Regularly Denied Public Charity In the South
January 1933

President Moves to Expand Social Security
October 1938

Reasons Why South Carolina Won't Appropriate Money to Form A Black Law School
April 1939

toto974's picture
It could well be the truth.

It could well be the truth.

Tjdudeman's picture
@neverhappened @bobl

@neverhappened @bobl

I never thought I would find atheists who feel the same way I do. Generally I meet extreme leftists in the atheist circles I’m exposed to. I’m what’s called a classical liberal. Modern examples would be individuals like Dave Rubin. This new thought policing and virtue signaling is a true threat to freedom. It genuinely scares me.

Syrinx2112's picture
Socialism and capitalism are

Socialism and capitalism are actually better companions than many realize, and they do exist in tandem, especially in the USA. Taxation is a form of socialism, so is the Church that takes offerings and uses it for community outreach. Each needs the other in a sort of balanced dance. Until we can find a more efficient way to ascribe value and reward that value with resource allocation (currently that takes the form of money and legal privileges), these systems will remain complicated and contentious due to human dishonesty; which sometimes is intentional and sometimes is not.

alpha480v's picture
Trump was elected in part by

Trump was elected in part by catering to the Christian evangelicals. He used them to get their votes. No different than any other politician, actually.

I hate the electoral college system. Clinton had over 3 million more votes, but we end up with a orange moron as president.

By the way, I voted for neither.

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