Real blood and tears at Akita?

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Mikhael's picture
This doesn't quite hold the

This doesn't quite hold the same water. I'm always referring to cases that have medical documentation I'm afraid. Stuff like that video doesn't bother me at all. The akita nun was diagnosed with hearing loss, then supposedly gained it back temporarily, most it again, then gained it back permanently, both times when visions told her she would. Could it be psychosomatic?

Nyarlathotep's picture
So your concerned that

So you're concerned that someone who exhibited intermittent hearing problems before a supposed magical event; experienced a change in their hearing after that event?

Why do these magical healing claims only treat ailments that improve on their own? How does that not scream scam from every bone in your body? For me it does.

Mikhael's picture
I don't know, I don't. I'm so

I don't know, I don't. I'm so jealous of you guys, I don't understand. Like Therese of this stoeybsets off my bullshit meter. We have no photos of her stigmata, nor of the statues. Weeping statues are easy to forge. If it wasn't for the healing miracle of the nun i wouldn't give it any credence. Like there's also a case of a Korean girl praying to the statue and being healed of a brain tumor vut I know spontaneous remission happens with or without miracles

I guess I'm just stuck on the nun knowing she would be healed...but then again I don't have sources for that either. I can't find that shebkeot any journals or anything. The only lists I can find of the timeline are Catholic websites

Nyarlathotep's picture
Mikhael - The only lists I

Mikhael - The only lists I can find of the timeline are Catholic websites...

FYI: that should be another scam red flag, imo.

Nyarlathotep's picture

Wait a second. A few minutes reading about this case; seems to indicated that even the Catholic church does not recognize this case as a miracle. Is that accurate?

Mikhael's picture
The local bishop has approved

The local bishop has approved it and the holy see has not struck it down. That's all I know

Also I guess several of the nuns did keep records of the events and shit, and many claimed to see it. I know it can before vut why am I so scared ??

Also according to this site the first blood test marches the nuns blood, but the next year was a different blood type

Nyarlathotep's picture
Mikhael - Also according to

Mikhael - Also according to this site the first blood test marches the nuns blood, but the next year was a different blood type...

Seems like the scammer learned a lesson the first time, and was more careful next time. Or maybe god learned a lesson and got better at making miracles in 1 years time. I'm betting on the former.

It seems you might be more credulous than even the Vatican.

Mikhael's picture
I know, I know you're

I know, I know you're probably right. Like, she'd only been deaf like 2 months before she entered the convent yet they declared it incurable. It obviously wasn't. And ifnshe was prone to religious visions coulsnt she be prone to psycho somatic issues? And the prieat and bishop wete involced in the whole process, they could have orchestrated a lot of this shit right ?

Nyarlathotep's picture
Mikhael - And the prieat and

Mikhael - And the prieat and bishop wete involced in the whole process, they could have orchestrated a lot of this shit right ?

I suppose but isn't necessary; it only takes 1 liar to convince those who already believe in magic.

Mikhael's picture
But there's just so many

But there's just so many moving parts...i don't know if the nun could have pulled it off on her own

What's wrong with me ? What am I seeing that others don't??

Nyarlathotep's picture
Mikhael - But there's just so

Mikhael - But there's just so many moving parts...

Which exact part of the story can you not explain with just 1 unreliable narrator (I mean a single crazy or lying nun)?

Mikhael's picture
Howbthebother nubs saw shit

Howbthebother nubs saw shit happen too and how it cried on tv? How the tests came back positive for different DNA so multiple people must have been involved

Nyarlathotep's picture
Mikhael - How the tests came

Mikhael - How the tests came back positive for different DNA so multiple people must have been involved...

Wouldn't it be easy for someone to surreptitiously secure a vial of blood from another person with A YEAR'S NOTICE?

Mikhael - ...other [nuns] saw shit happen too...

Are you suggesting that other nuns saw the magic like inside that Lady's head healing her hearing? I suspect that isn't what you are implying. What are you saying here?

David Killens's picture
"What's wrong with me ? What

"What's wrong with me ? What am I seeing that others don't??"

Check post #39, which you wrote. The many typos indicate you are frantically typing away.

You are in a state of self-induced panic, created by your frantic searching and digging.

Take a step back, turn your computer off for at least two weeks, and get your shit together. If you feel a compulsion to turn your computer on, go outside and take a VERY long and slow walk.

Cognostic's picture
What? What? Holy shit.

What? What? Holy shit. I was completely deaf until Nyarlathotep's last post. ITS A MIRACLE!

Nyarlathotep's picture
Cognostic - I was completely

Cognostic - I was completely deaf until Nyarlathotep's last post. ITS A MIRACLE!

OK, now for the fine print:

Its $3.99 for the first miracle + $2.99 for each additional miracle. But if you come back on Miracle Mondays, you can get 2 for $5.00.

Mikhael's picture
No, guys l, I know, i know I

No, guys l, I know, i know I just sound crazy to you, I do. I mean, the other buns have written down that they saw it bleed and sweat and cry and that they saw her stigmata come and go. Her deafness was documented by her doctors. I know ibwrote in a previous post that I read her doctors said her cute wasn't miraculous but I can't find that source now

LogicFTW's picture


Since you are still figuring out tools to detect bullshit from reality.

I recommend, that you consider any claim at all religious, supernatural, etc at a default: Not true.

If you can, for now, (you can evidence for yourself over time) trust that we, (folks that identify as atheist on these forums,) all collectively have noticed there has been zero actual evidence, and we have all gone looking. Between us, over 100 years of looking, and asking countless 1000's of people to evidence anything with their god ideas and still nothing. Still ZERO evidence. Trust that between all of us we have not missed something. There is absolutely nothing to separate any god idea from any other random thought we have in our head about anything.

And keep doing what you are doing, if you get hung up in something supernatural, just post it here, and we will explain to you why it is not true, and you can keep developing the very important tool: the bullshit detector. The only requirement to devlop this buillshit detector is to require real evidence. And know what real evidence is, anything written or spoken by humans is NOT evidence by it self.

If a person's words add up to something that can be tested, trialed, discussed, repeated etc among critical/skeptical minds, then it MIGHT be evidence. The work must still be done to verify, develop a consensus held up by actual testable facts etc.

EVERY supernatural or god claim of evidence I ever heard of, has failed this basic bullshit detecting test. 99% of the "evidence" claims are just people flapping their gums (or just "talk", which can not and should not even be considered evidence at all.)

Mikhael's picture
Hey logic ,

Hey logic ,

First I want to thank you for your patience, all of you. I have actually just gotten over a bad stomach flu, in going 3 days almost no food and even less sleep so I'm sure my mental state is not great

I really had an epiphany for the first time today that I don't think I view the world the same way as some others. What I mean is,

When I was 5 there was a sign outside target that read "Jesus is coming soon, are you ready?" And it terrified me. Tabloid covers predicting the end of the world, travel channel shows talking about the end of the world being predicted for 2002. I spent my childhood believing these with no question. Anyone remember Harold Camping and his 2011 predictions? I bought it. I remember refreshing my phone in horror all night, waiting for the earthquakes in New Zealand to start.

At the same time, I don't believe I was abused. I don't believe I have ptsd, anxiety or other mental issues. I am skeptical of all the opposite things and I really don't think my perceptions are matching up with a healthy reality. Again I thank you for your patience and for helping to walk me through this. I know I must sound crazy or even annoying to everyone here: on other sites they have chased me off thinking I am a pity troll, and I'm not.

I had a long talk with my best friend today. She's scared for me, she'd afraid I might do something rash like abandon my wife, so she's trying to help me through it. She really helped put on perspective for me that with 200 million people having gone through Lourdes, it would be a bigger miracle if no one was healed there, and that we have no real numbers on spontaneous cures not associated with miracles.

An ex Catholic board I'm a part of is helping me understand how absolutely bonkers human perception is.

And you guys are right. I take word of mouth and spoken accounts as evidence. Anyone can lie. And the Catholic church has every motive to lie, to manipulate, to cover evidence. I keep thinking these accounts are too complicated to fake, but god, that isn't true.

You know Zeitoun? I look at those photos and my bullshit meter pings immediately. They're fake as all fuck. I don't know what happened at Zeitoun, but not a damn thing tells me an amorphous light is Mary when it never spoke, did miracles , nada. It could be fucking Aphrodite for all anyone fucking knows. But my heart still goes, what if? What happened? What really happened there, or Fatima, or Lourdes, or any other?

But maybe everyone is right. Maybe some things we will never know 100%. It what I do know is I love my wife, i love my art, I miss living. And I'm ready to try again

Cognostic's picture
@Nyarlathotep: Should we

@Nyarlathotep: Should we haggle?

Tin-Man's picture
@Mikhael Re: Restored

@Mikhael Re: Restored hearing "miracle"

(This may get a little lengthy, folks. Just letting you know...)

Hey, Mikhael, you seem to be terribly concerned about how somebody who was supposedly deaf could possibly have their hearing restored. Maybe it would help you a little bit to understand how a true and proper modern-day medical evaluation works. Having been a combat medic in the Army, hopefully I can shed a little light on that for you that will allow you to better "judge" these supposed "medical miracles".

For starters, somebody would have to PROVE to me without a doubt that the nun was deaf in the first place. And that is not as easy to do as you might imagine, even with today's advances in medical technology. And, if I am not mistaken, this supposed "miracle" of which we speak took place somewhere in the mid-seventies? In Japan? With the Catholic church calling the shots and deciding who did the hearing "evaluations" on the nun?... Hmmmm.... Dude, just from that ALONE, my bullshit alarms are ringing off the hook. So, let's determine why, shall we?...

Now, before I get started, it might interest you to know that the evaluation method I am about to describe did not get developed until around the early 70's by an American doctor. Therefore, it is highly unlikely this advanced method was used by the Catholic church in Japan by the mid-70's. Anyway, it is called S.O.A.P. Notes, and it is a very simple and consistent method of determining a clinical patient's problem(s) and the best course of action to take. (Different method(s) used for emergency trauma patients, by the way. Just so you know.) Here is what it stands for...

S. (Subjective information) - This is the information provided by the patient telling the medic/doc what is bothering them.

O. (Objective information) - This is what the medic/doc actually observes by looking at the patient and noticing any obvious physical marks/deformities and the patient's overall behavior. Physical exams and testing is done during this stage.

A. (Assessment) - Based on what the patient has told the medic/doc, what the medic/doc observed, and on whatever test results were obtained, this is where the medic/doc determines what is truly wrong with the patient. (Believe it or not, patients sometimes lie about what their true problem might be.)

P. (Plan) - This is where the medic/doc decides what course of action to take such as administering meds, or suggesting therapy, or surgery, or any combination thereof, depending on the assessment.

Granted, I have simplified this just a tad, but you get the idea. So, with this in mind, let us see how this is actually put into practice if I were to evaluate your nun if she had entered my aid station complaining of hearing loss. Starting with the Subjective, the first thing I would do would be to ask her a few questions. When did you first notice your hearing loss? What were you doing at that time of and/or shortly before the time of your hearing loss? Were you around any loud noises at the time of loss or shortly before? Was your head submerged in water at any time shortly before or during the loss? When was the last time you traveled by plane? Have you bumped/injured your head recently or at any time in the past? Do you have any seasonal allergies? Any pain in your ears or head or around your face/nose/eyes? If so, what type? Is it local, or does it radiate to other areas? What makes the pain better or worse? Is the pain constant or intermittent? Do you feel dizzy or lightheaded? Have you had any sinus problems lately? Had a cold or similar illness recently? If so, are you taking any medications for it? If so, what type of meds? Do you hear anything at all, no matter how faint, or are you totally unable to hear any sound at all? Any internal "ringing" noise? (And maybe a few other questions here and there depending on the answers I get from her.)

Notice, I have not yet even started an actual physical examination. Although, the entire time I am questioning her I am looking at her demeanor and how she reacts to certain questions and how she reacts to her surroundings. Obviously, if she claims to be totally deaf, we will be communicating by improvised methods, of course. And even that can reveal important information if closely observed. (I stress again, that patients will often lie about what is truly wrong with them. But that could be an entire other discussion on its own.) Also, at this point, all I have is what she is TELLING ME. And it is up to me to determine how much could be true, how much is half-truth, and how much is simply downright bullshit. Hence the term Subjective Information. But that is where the next part comes in... The Objective information.

Actual testing. Very first thing... check her ears for any type of obstructions, injury, or infections. Simple procedure. Just use an otoscope to look into her ears. Much you can learn from that. Then check her nose, sinuses, and eyes. Check the inside of her mouth and the back of her throat. Maybe even feel her head for bruises, bumps, and swollen areas. Something else I might do during the exam would be to make a couple of sudden loud noises behind her at random and watch closely for a reaction. Maybe even get a co-worker to do the same while I am in front of her. Sneaky, but effective. After all of that, it is likely I would send her to a facility that has an actual hearing lab to have her hearing tested by a specialist. Then I wait for the results and make my Assessment. And depending on what that Assessment is, I would then determine the Plan to fit the Assessment.

Again, I have simplified this considerably for the sake of easy understanding. And that alone should tell you something right there. Because this is pretty much just a very BASIC routine/standard procedure used by all modern-day U.S. military medics to help treat just a standard patient with a standard complaint. And, believe me, the medical world was MUCH MUCH different back in the mid-70's compared to practices and procedures of today. (Meaning they were not nearly as practical or thorough back then.) Furthermore, if you happened to notice some of the questions I asked during the Subjective part of the exam, you might realize there are MANY things that can cause abrupt/gradual hearing loss, and many of those causes can be fixed to help return the hearing to the patient. For that matter, a few of those problems can even correct themselves over time. But even with today's MRI's and CAT scan abilities, without seeing visible physical injury/trauma to the inner ear or related mechanisms, being able to determine if somebody is truly totally deaf is not an exact science. Sometimes you just have to take the patient's word for it. And, yes, deafness CAN BE faked. And even if a person IS genuinely totally deaf, there are a few causes for it that can be self-correcting over time. No miracles necessary. Hope this helps you in some way.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Tin Man

@ Tin Man

Dead on bro. Unless the proper systems of evaluation are in place any claimed treatment results are random bullshit.

Vitamin and supplement companies do it all the time. So do snake oil salespeople.

Mikhael's picture
Tin man, thank you for your

Tin man, thank you for your excellent insight and for giving me a look into the process. It's very helpful actually

I'm dealing, guys. I'm going to try and journal and draw and process these emotions more fully. I might take a break for a while and try to go cold turkey on this site and others. For my health and marriage it might be best at least for a few days. I dunno, I'm an obsessive so it might not last, but I'm gonna try to at least stay the fuck off google. It's a fuck anyway, most sources come from Catholic sites anyway on most issues I want to know


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