I am relatively new to the Atheist Republic, although I have been receiving email from them for a couple of years. One reason I have not commented on the Forum before is because I am a politically Conservative Atheist and seem to be way out of step with most atheists I see and hear on Twitter and in some of the comments here. I came to atheism later in life and after having lived as a Christian for most of my adult life. I often am more in step with my Christian friends than anyone I know as an atheist. Of course I would probably have a lot less friends if they knew of my lack of belief. Is it a foregone conclusion, that if you are a non believer, you must be a "progressive"? I'm a veteran and I love and support my country. I'm not a big supporter of leftist political ideology and therefore doubt I would be comfortable here for very long. Am I wrong in that opinion?
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I'm not sure. Truth be told I'm politically conservative as well, although I haven't had a hard time with anyone else on this site. I'm assuming you're also a southerner?
I was a Northerner by birth, but I'm now a southerner by choice. I'm glad to hear your comment Seenyab4.
Glad to have you Thomas, and if you live in the Bible Belt, may God (?) have mercy on your soul.
As Zeus, I have nothing to fear. LOL
Opinion, wrong? Some would say that no one's opinion is wrong. I am not an advocate of that belief. I am a military veteran of 22 years in the USMC, now retired. I am a Liberal. However being an atheist has nothing to do with a political ideology.
I must say that I strongly disagree with your choice of monikers if you are indeed a conservative. Thomas Paine was strongly against conservative ideology, so it doesn't really fit.
There is a very good reason that your friends with christians, because by and large christians are mostly conservative. I could give a long list about the ills of conservative ideology and how it agrees with mythologies such as christianity, but it would take decades to post.
In my experience, I have found that the majority of atheists are indeed Liberal but the margin is slim to be sure.
I agree with most of your post. My brand of conservatism is best described as socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I agree with acceptance and tolerance, but only to an extent. For example I believe that Muslim ideologies should absolutely not be accepted. I also believe we need to stop the flow of illegal immigrants. I think PC culture is a blight upon humanity. I believe Black Lives Matter can make a few good points but are ultimately detrimental to our society, and only further widen the gap between races. Finally I also believe economic prosperity is more important than addressing societal ills, as economic prosperity can bring the most good for the most number of people. Again these are just my beliefs, and I agree conservative ideologies can be backwards, but I can't accept this new wave of extreme progressivism happening in this country.
You are a very intuitive young man and express your thoughts and opinions very well. I too have no use for Black Lives Matter as I think it is the closest thing we can have to a domestic terrorist organization. Unlike groups like the Black Panthers, if you say something against BLM, you are called a Racist and someone who thinks less of the lives of African Americans. In fact the entire narrative of BLM is based on a false premise, that being that a black man, unarmed and with his hands in the air, was shot by the police. The fact being he didn't have his hands up and was in fact attacking the police office who defended himself and was exonerated. I'm old enough to remember the burning of major cities in the United States back in the 1960's. I don't want to see that again. This country needs security, jobs, and to end massive regulations heaped on American businesses and individuals.
mykcob4 ~ You're pretty much confirming my supposition. About the only thing you and I have in common is our military service. Other than that I share little with you in your political beliefs. I also disagree with your opinion on what Thomas Paine believed. For one thing, conservatism was a totally different animal when Paine lived. The American Torys were the conservatives of the day, but today the Founders of this nation are under attack by the radical left. It's today's Conservatives that are fighting for our way of life and maintenance of this nation. I would venture to say that were a poll to be taken as to the political positions that most Atheists take in this country, they would be in support of Hillary Clinton. As far as your giving me a long list of Christian shortcomings, I don't need it. I appreciate your giving me your honest opinion and I guess I'll just agree to disagree. You and I are never going to agree on politics. Have a nice day.
@Zeus
1) Thomas Paine and most of the founders were Liberal and would be considered radical progressives today.
2) Your stance on 'Black Lives Matter' is also dead wrong. You call it domestic terrorism, yet it is only a public protest against police brutality and institutional racism. Apparently, you must agree with police brutality of minorities and racism.
3) The founders of this nation are not under attack in any way shape or form.
You have to grow up to be a liberal. It's easy to be a conservative. To be a Liberal you have to think. To be a conservative you just have to buy into the latest populace conspiracy being proffered.
No, I don't think we will EVER agree. I cannot abide an ideology so emersed in ignorance and stupidity, that causes people to vote against their own well-being, that endorses hatred, sexism, genderism, homophobia, racism, and elite classism. An ideology that supports and buys into, revisionist history and pseudo-science.
I doubt that we have a military service in common as I spent 22 years in the USMC, and my career was long widespread, varied, and very UNCOMMON.
My service is closer to that of Sen. John Glenn(respected) than Oliver North(disgraced).
1) I think that is a baseless claim, some major philosophers actually believed government should play a balanced role, in which they aren't too active to restrict people rights and not too inactive to let people run wild.
2) I think it is ignorant to assume that he is a racist bigot, because he just so happens to disagree with BLM. I dislike them not because they are wrong but because the methods they use are a little extreme. It is never a peaceful protest when people march in the streets chanting for dead cops. If they want to get their message across they need another Martin Luther King. And some of the things they call for is extreme as well, for example they're calling for segregation and a national police force, which is just extremely inefficient.
3) I think it's also ignorant to assume that all liberals are of superior intelligence and that conservatives are lower than yourself and other liberals academically, which is ironic as you later go on about elitism.
@Seeyab4
Did I say he was a racist bigot? NO! And just what extreme method are you referring to? BLM has only organized marches. BLM has NEVER advocated or chanted for dead cops. that is a conservative slander. They NEVER called for a segregation. That is OPPOSITE of what they have called for. They called for the Justice department to investigate police forces which is needed if you just take Fergusson Missouri as an example. They found institutional bigotry throughout that administration, from a cycle of indentured fining to police brutality.
I said nothing about superior intelligence.
As for your point #1. The founders designed the government to be a safeguard against corruption.
So your whole post was completely incorrect and totally misrepresented what I said.
My apologies on the first point, I meant that you implied he advocated police brutality not that he was a racial bigot, it was a mixup of words on my part. Pretty much everything else, I stand by. If you want examples of BLM's extremism, here is a link to a very informative yet terse video.
https://youtu.be/wAZMAULHwBs
As for Ferguson Missouri, I'm not familiar. I'll have to look at it though, because they have to have some serious evidence to prove institutional racism, and it's piqued my interest. I don't deny the founders designed the government to be a safeguard against corruption, and I don't believe I did in my previous post.
"You have to grow up to be a liberal. It's easy to be a conservative. To be a Liberal you have to think. To be a conservative you just have to buy into the latest populace conspiracy being proffered."
Although not explicitly stated, you seemed to be implying conservatives are of lower intelligence or not capable of the same level of thought as liberals. If I am mistaken, just let me know your intentions with the above statement.
P.S. Sorry to you and Zeus. I didn't mean to turn this post into something completely different than what it was originally designed for. My passion for politics gets the better of me sometimes, and I didn't mean any disrespect with my previous post, my apologies if I offended you or anyone else.
@Seenyab4
Fergusson Missouri was investigated and found that they had a standard to "over police" black neighborhoods, to conduct searches without probable cause, to harass blacks on sight. The investigation found that people were arrested for very minor offenses like J-walking. Thus causing very poor people to receive fines that they could not pay, therefore throwing them into an endless cycle of incarceration, probation, and mounting fines and fees!
Here is the complete 105 page report. I have read the entire report.
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/department-of-justic...
Fergusson Missouri isn't alone. Baltimore is even worse.
During the Giuliani unconstitutional "stop and frisk" practice (that didn't work by every study on the matter) Blacks were disproportionately harassed.
http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data
As far as my statement about having to grow up to be a Liberal. I was actually stating that it's easy to be conservative. You don't have to think, not that you can't. You don't have to think to buy into a populace propaganda.
To be a Liberal you have to research, learn, understand, think critically, fight through the minutia and rhetoric.
It is EASY to call BLM a terrorist group, but that is a complete and utter lie. Learning why it came about, what the issues are, how they operate, what their goals are, takes research. You can't just have a bumper-sticker mentality and react.
Take the Black Panthers. I would bet that YOU may believe that they were a terrorist group. The fact is the only person actually guilty of a crime committed in the name of the Black Panthers was Eldridge Cleaver. The FBI and local police actually committed murder against the Black Panthers. Lying about illegal arms, drug distribution, and other fabricated lies to justify those murders.
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/the-black-panthers-vanguard-of-...
I don't know about terrorist group, but it is undeniable they have caused a lot of upset and violence with their movement. A simple search on YouTube can show you thousands of people(BLM supporters) grouped together calling for harm to others(police). I am not an advocate of any group that does that, whether their message is right or wrong, because there are better ways to bring about change. Also, despite what you may think, there are conservatives out there who HAVE done their research. One that I can name is Ben Shapiro, and I'm sure there are many others. Conservatives aren't the only ones with propaganda either, most major news outlets are liberal, save Fox (and we both know how they are). What happened to the Black Panthers is upsetting, but that was in a different time period, and I don't think it's a suitable precedent for the racial tensions happening now.
Geez, that's too bad, I like Olie. I think he is a real Patriot. BLM, a domestic terrorist organization. I guess you haven't heard them marching and declaring about the police, "Fry 'em like bacon." "What do we need and when do we need it?" "Dead Cops". I guess that's just some church group out on a stroll.
@Zeus
You don't know what the HELL you are talking about.
"Fry 'em like bacon." "What do we need and when do we need it?" "Dead Cops". That isn't part of Black Lives Matter. As a matter of fact, it is a slander created to discredit Black Lives Matter. It's called "Swift Boating" as it is a lie used to discredit an organization or person.
Here is what BLM is all about.
http://blacklivesmatter.com/herstory/
Granted some people that join the marches get out of hand but that doesn't represent the movement at all. To call them a "terrorist group" is just a lie.
Oliver North is a disgrace. He committed treason, then he lied to Congress to protect Reagan and Bush over Iran-Contra!
Fitting that YOU like Ollie North. He isn't a "patriot"! He is a criminal guilty of the worst offense a person could ever commit! TREASON!
Hello Thomas Paine.
I'm not American, so your political labels may be a bit different from mine. I'm on the libertarian right, so I believe that next to religions, big governments are people's worst enemies. In my opinion, the only political imperative for an atheist position is a firm belief in the separation of church and state.
Thanks for your comment Algebe. I certainly agree that big governments are always the enemy of any free people. In the United States it is and has always been that Liberals want big and bigger government at the expense of freedom and privacy. I think the British are learning this lesson and finally got out of the European Union before it was too late. I also agree in separation of church and state. I have no interest in getting into arguments on political positions, but invariably I do when I express my thoughts. I think the next time I post a comment on the Forum it will probably be about the benefits of using the Telegram program. Ref: www.telegram.org. Until next time, wishing you the best.
@Zeus
"big and bigger government at the expense of freedom and privacy"
It's worse than that. In New Zealand, where I lived for many years, big government sucked all the life out of the economy through crippling taxes,regulation and protectionism. Churches aided and abetted this trend, because they share government's tendency to meddle and control. When the economy tanked they set themselves up as advocates for the unemployed and dispossessed. New Zealand finally got wiser and started to rein in its government, but the churches fought tooth and nail. They secretly hate prosperity and success, because they dream of a world full of paupers and lepers so they can all pretend to be Jesus or Mother Teresa.
I am an atheist and a libertarian. Not really involved in the liberal vs. conservative debates. Welcome to AR Zeus!
I am fiscally conservative aswell, and somewhat socially liberal, but do not support the femenist , blm, and pc movement, they tend to shut down debate when offended, which wont get us anywhere. Its also amusing how social issues have far passed political and economic issues in the years for importance.
Agreed, people, for some odd reason, focus more on racism than the $20 trillion dollars debt we have collected
This Obama administration has accrued more national debt in 8 years than all the Presidents preceding him combined. You're right, every time a liberal doesn't agree with something you have to say, they yell "Racist". They ought to look up the actual definition of racism. Hitler was a racist. He murdered more than 6 million Jews. He was what I call a genuine racist!
- "This Obama administration has accrued more national debt in 8 years than all the Presidents preceding him combined."
I don't even live in the US, so I'm not all that involved. But from what I understand, wasn't all the debt problems already set in motion by the previous administration?
@ Prag
Yep, you're correct. The debt started with Bush cutting taxes for the wealthy without paying for that tax cut. Then he started 2 wars instead of going after the specific terrorist that cause 9/11. Then he gutted the SEC and didn't enforce laws and regulation designed to safeguard the economy. Now the conservatives blame Obama, even though he saved this nation AND THE WORLD from DEPRESSION. Conservatives ignore history and only say what is convenient to their fucked up idealism.
It took the time from the Administration of our first President, George Washington to the administration of George Bush to accumulate a 10 trillion dollar national debt. Obama manage to replicate the feat in only 8 years. Not only is Obama's administration well on the way to bankrupt this nation, but should Hillary Clinton and the Democrats succeed in wining the presidency, that number will increase exponentially. It's no doubt that the Republicans didn't do a great job and contributed in causing financial problems, but the actions of Obama only made it terribly worse.
I seriously disagree. "W" cut taxes for only the highest income earners and large corporations. For well over 11 years the highest incomes have not paid a wit of taxes and large corporations haven't paid a red cent either. That is the deficit in a nutshell. Now debt isn't static it accrues interest. Blaming the deficit on Obama is a flat out lie. The deficit was created under the Bush administration along with serious economic problems that had to be immediately addressed, plus two senseless wars. Obama inherited those problems and solved most of them. However the debt will take decades to fix.
Look at history.
Reagan=debt
Bush I=more debt
Clinton=surplus
W=debt
Obama= more debt but that debt is spending to solve the eight years of W.
If Hillary wins I doubt that she will not end the debt, but she will drive down the debt. Every single one of her preposals is paid for...EVERY ONE!
Trump hasn't got a single plan. The "I will make America great again" just doesn't cut it. He has NO plan.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/middle-class-needs-raise-heres-how-h...
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/05/17/Grading-Hillary-Clinton-s-Tax-Plan
The top financial planners in the nation favor Hillary's economic plan.
Obama's overall economic score.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-09-06/how-obama-s-economic-...
Post WW II the worst presidents have been republicans and the best were Democratic.
@ Zeus
- "Obama manage to replicate the feat in only 8 years."
I seriously doubt that.
Can you give some concrete examples of what Obama did to make that happen?
"Millions in U.S. Climb Out of Poverty, at Long Last"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/business/economy/millions-in-us-climb-...
Must be Obamas fault...
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I'm pretty Liberal but many of my friends are conservative and share your views. In addition to that, I'm not as PC as most liberals so I think you and I are in the same boat. Feeling out of place all the time lol. I don't think you have much to worry about here. Being a member here already solidifies some common ground between all of us and that's what really matters... at least to me. We don't always agree and that's perfectly fine, Glad to have you here.
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