Unpopular But What If There's Some Sort Of God?

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Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
Unpopular But What If There's Some Sort Of God?

Just for the sakes of what if, what if there is a god?? What exactly would have that god have done, brought the ingredients together to start the Big Bang, then do nothing else?

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Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz: This

@Fievel Mousekewitz: This is the God of Deism. It's exactly the same as no God at all.

I posted this in another thread. Imagine this god thing. Living (if you can call it that) beyond time and space. It lives in the void of emptiness. There is no time for a thought to move from beginning to fruition. No language has yet been invented so what would a thought consist of anyway? And without time or language, how would a sentence begin or end? This insanely ignorant God thing suddenly comes up with the idea of a Big Bang? It invents atoms, molecules, chemical interactions that lead to life? It creates planets and stars? WHERE IN THE HELL DID ALL THESE IDEAS COME FROM. This god thing was just as likely to create a rubber duck and gummy bears as a universe.

Imagine never having seen life, a universe, or anything. Having a mind that is a complete blank. How in the hell do you come up with a universe and living beings?

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

Imagine though if there is something after death, and we're somehow wrong about a god. I guess that's too much hoping from my side, at least there's no evidence of a god on the Christian side of this. I posted this for the What If about it.

I guess I should just enjoy the life I do have, as it is still possible there's nothing after death.

Algebe's picture
@Fievel: it is still

@Fievel: it is still possible there's nothing after death.

That's what makes life truly precious. Make the most of it.

Your experience after death will be exactly the same as your experience before birth. How was that for you?

cranky47's picture
Possible? How about

Possible? How about 'unlikely' ? . It's possible there IS life after death. Not quite the same thing .

I once asked rabbi on an on line yeshiva about the Jewish concept of heaven . His reply was that Jews are far too concerned with living than to be concerned with life after death. Makes perfect sense ,considering Judaism has no concept of an eternal hell. Christians invented that all by themselves.

Strange as it may seem to our sensibilities, the concept of life after death has not been anything like a consistent idea throughout the history of the thousands of religions that have been and still exist. . Because humanity en masse has been illiterate for most of our existence, religious books have also been rare.

Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz:

@Fievel Mousekewitz: "Something after death?" What? How would you know? Which God? How many have there been? Why choose the Christian version? They grew out of the Jewish faith and the Jews have a much nicer version of death. Why aren't you afraid of the Islamic God. If they are right you are in for a Hell of a time. There is no evidence for a God on any side of this.

RE: "I guess I should just enjoy life."

I am of the opinion that you do not have a choice. Some people simply enjoy worrying. They actually enjoy putting themselves in horrible situations because it feeds the view they have of themselves and their view of the world in which they live. (Let me give you an example.)

*Being depressed is a position of great power. On the surface we pity the depressed person. We think how horrible it would be to live a life like that. But let's look at what is really going on.

The depressed person is in a position of absolute power and control. They cling to their depression as a coping mechanism to get them through life. They get other people to dote over them. They live their lives looking for an enabler who will wait on them hand and foot. (I'm too tired to go to the store, can you get me something to eat. I'm too depressed to keep a job, I'll just sit in the house and play video games. I can't deal with stress, I'm just going to stay home. You take the kids to the park, I don't have the energy.) The depressed person has figured out a way to get others to do everything they need done for them.

I am not saying depression does not occur or that it is not real. I am saying that it can become a highly manipulative lifestyle with positive rewards and a lot of reinforcement once an enabler becomes involved. The only person more powerful than a depressed person is a dead one. "Your mother would be really disappointing in you if she knew....." If you carry the burden of what your dead relative or significant other might possibly think of you, fuck! That is a lot of psychological manipulation to be toting around.

You do what you do because it gets you what you want. The things you want may not make you the greatest person in the world but they are things that make you HAPPY. You deserve the degree of happiness you think you deserve.

Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz: If you

@Fievel Mousekewitz: If you were a god and created creatures to worship you. You would be a fucking asshole. What kind of an egotistical idiot makes something that will worship it. It's like a kid with a magnifying glass torturing ants until the little suckers all learn to line up and bow. ITS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

cranky47's picture
What if I'm wrong?

What if I'm wrong?

Although atheist (don't believe) I'm also agnostic .(don't know)

If the Christians are right , I may be fucked. Depends on whether god is the terrifying and disgusting deity of the OT and various literalists . OR the god of my late mother, a devout Catholic and 'small c" christian. Her god was one of infinite love, compassion and forgiveness. I quite like him. . Also worth being aware of the fact that it was the christians who invented an eternal hell. It doesn't exist in Judaism.

Of course Christianity is only one of literally thousand of religions. I've always been fond of Hindu god Ganesh (the one who looks like an elephant) However, I don't find the notion of reincarnation very appealing.

Also quite like Buddhism, taken as a life philosophy . I find the concept of ahimsa especially attractive

The clip below is to a favourite song: Iris Dement singing 'Let The Mystery Be'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlaoR5m4L80:

David Killens's picture
@cranky47

@cranky47

"If the Christians are right , I may be fucked."

Assuming this is real, if god is the character from the bible, no matter who you are and what you do, you are totally screwed. Is it reasonable to assume that an entity with a full history of thousands of years of continual cruelty and sadism would stop with a captive audience in heaven? Maybe that is god's purpose, to harvest a large crowd of obedient and submissive fools to mess around with.

If a god was loving and caring, IMO no matter if you bent your knee or not, if you lived a good and moral life, you enjoy the afterlife.

cranky47's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

In my opinion ,the same should apply even if you were a very bad person .This because it was the Christians who invented the idea of an eternal hell . It doesn't exist in Judaism ., Perhaps odd considering the nature of YHWH in the Torah.

Imo it is horrible and unjust to condemn a person to eternal punishment, no matter what they have done. The notion of eternity is I think beyond human comprehension . Just as is the idea of nothingness.

The best I've been able to come up with to try top understand 'nothingness' (after death) is;

On an ancient tomb on the Via Appia just outside of Rome:

" I was not
I was
I am not
I don't care"

Mutorc S'yriah's picture
2 Fievel Mousekewitz

2 Fievel Mousekewitz

Unpopular But What If There's Some Sort Of God?

Just for the sakes of what if, what if there is a god?? What exactly would have that god have done, brought the ingredients together to start the Big Bang, then do nothing else?
_________________________________________________________

My answer is that I don't need to care. Whatever that god is, it doesn't care about US, so I don't care about 'IT'.

David Killens's picture
I just try to live my life in

I just try to live my life in a positive manner, both for myself and others.

I was viewing a Jordan Peterson video recently, and he defined a god as "the highest ideal a person holds".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7iHFjrwRCI

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
Ultimately if a god does

Ultimately if a god does exist, that god does nothing. Trying to reply to everyone at one time.
Yes to @Algebe probably just like before I was born, that's the kind of experiences I will experience.
Yes @David Killens "I just try to live my life in a positive manner, both for myself and others"
Very well put, I do try to, I don't treat people mean.

@Cognostic I take meds for depression, but I do not make people wait on me.

If there is a life after death, I will find out when I die. If there isn't, then I will know as much as I knew before I was born. At least I wont have to deal with such a crazy world anymore.

Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekerwitz: "At

@Fievel Mousekerwitz: "At least I wont have to deal with such a crazy world anymore."
You don't HAVE to deal with it now. How you deal with the world is always a choice. Once you understand you have made the choice, you can only blame yourself for the choice you made. It is never the world's fault. If you want a better world, one that is not so crazy, you simply have to make different choices. (It really is that simple but admittedly, simple is sometimes hard to do.)

Activating events - Things that happen in the world, are never responsible for our reactions. A discomforting event happens and a million people will deal with the event a million different ways. Activating events do not lead to consequences.

Beliefs about activating events lead to consequences. If you believe the world is a crazy place, that is what you will see. Believing is seeing. Change your belief and you can change your world. Shit happens (A) --- You have a BELIEF (B) ---- You respond to your BELIEF and that is the (C) consequence. How you respond is everything and your BELIEF will always dictate your response.

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

I suppose you are right. Life is only as crazy as you make it out to be.
Belief? I have not many beliefs in things, I find there's not enough time to tie myself down with too many beliefs in things. I guess life is what ever one makes of it.

Randomhero1982's picture
An all knowing, personal,

An all knowing, personal, creator god... that creates us with a piss poor life span, in a solar system on our own, orbiting a sun that'll die and consume our world, within distance of our neighbouring system that is on a collision course with us and having to reside in a cosmos in which 99.9% of its contents would kill us.

Bit of a twat if you ask me.

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Randomhero1982

@Randomhero1982

"An all knowing, personal, creator god.."
And never helps us through any kind of natural disasters.

God fucks us, so I guess we should fuck him.

Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz: "God

@Fievel Mousekewitz: "God fucks us, so I guess we should fuck him."
Exactly how is God fucking you? When has God done anything on this planet?
Atheists are people who do not believe in god or gods. There is nothing out there fucking you. If you feel fucked, you are doing it to yourself.

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

I was being sarcastic.
God, which doesn't exist, does nothing when there's natural disasters, so there can not really be a god.

Getting fucked for a change would be a good thing from what I am. But I haven't had a good one in a very long time.

Cognostic's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz: "But I

@Fievel Mousekewitz: "But I haven't had a good one in a very long time."
That too is your choice. You are not doing things that will get you laid. Either you do not want to spend the time, don't have the energy. or actually just don't care as much as you think you care. If it was important to you, you would do something about it. Are you aware of your own priorities or are you lying to yourself about your own priorities?

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

Actually my lover and I both have E.D. So it is kind of difficult for either one of us to do so.

Tin-Man's picture
@Fievel Re: "Actually my

@Fievel Re: "Actually my lover and I both have E.D. So it is kind of difficult for either one of us to do so."

So? Dude, they make "adult toys", you know? I don't know where you live, but I know even here in the Bible Belt there are a number of legitimate adult "novelty" stores around that have a very wide variety of sexual devices to aid in such activities. Hell, why don't you two go on a little shopping spree together? Could be fun. And even if there are no such stores available where you are, there are literally hundreds of online sites where you can purchase such things. Could help spice things up a bit for you both. Just a suggestion...

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man

We are all off subject a bit... LOL.
There's a shop on the other end of town, they have everything we could want there. There's also a place nearby it to watch strippers. I don't know if they have male strippers or not, but that would be fun for him and I. Most times he doesn't like toys, and I like a good piece of wood. You know.

Anyways I'll keep it all in mind. ;-)

Cognostic's picture
@Romero: Awwwww hell - Tin

@Romero: Awwwww hell - Tin stole my thunder as he clearly pointed out.... You still have choices. ED is not a reason not to have the best sex of your life. Are you aware of the fact that a flaccid penis can still ejaculate? Half the symptoms of ED: depression, overweight, increased age, stress, anxiety, can be aleviated with exercise. Even walking an hour a day.

"Although the risk of ED increases with age, ED is not inevitable as you get older. It may be more difficult to get an erection as you age, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you will develop ED. In general, the healthier you are, the better your sexual function."

The question is not why can't you have great sex. The question is, what are you doing to get what you want.

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

Yeah I guess in a way Tin did take your thunder.
I'll keep it in mind, and when I feel right, I will go after my lover. ;)

Thanks Much.

Cognostic's picture
Fievel Mousekewitz: "when I

Fievel Mousekewitz: "when I feel right," NOOOOOO! Success is when opportunity and preparedness meet. Feeling right has nothing to do with anything. Why not wait for the stars to align and your horoscope tells you that it is an auspicious day. Some days you do not feel like going to work but you roll over, turn off the alarm clock, and drag yourself out of bed anyway. You do it because the rewards are better than the consequences. You do it because it is important, not because you feel like it. Feelings rarely mean shit in the real world. That is just a fact of life. Get up, get going, and get over it.

David Killens's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz

@Fievel Mousekewitz

"and when I feel right"

Many years ago my wife and I were suffering a rough patch, and did not have sex for about two months. We went to a couples therapist, laid out our dilemma, and the response was basically

Go home right now and fuck.

Cognostic's picture
@David: YEP! I love it.

@David: YEP! I love it. So many times a problem just isn't a problem. ( I would have told you to get a hotel room.) Married couples forget to keep dating. People put oil in their cars every month to maintain them but completely neglect a marriage and then wonder why it isn't working any more.

LogicFTW's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz

@Fievel Mousekewitz

The same question I would ask theist I would ask for this what if scenario.
Define your god idea. If you want I could take an average of the most respected english dictionary definitions.

Most definitions of god include language of creator, source of moral authority, supreme being, often the word worship comes up, power over nature and so on.

So if this god idea is all the above, we run into some major problems, contradictions, and paradoxes right off the bat. Even if I got it all wrong and there is a god despite my lack of belief in it. That "god" as defined by humans, still makes zero sense, no progress is made. If you could somehow prove to me the "concept" god was real, because the word is so maligned and unworkable we still have gained nothing in the "proof" the god would have to be revealed, and for it to "work" it will have to show most if not all of the definition of "god" as it is commonly accepted, is well, wrong.

And if most of the term of "god" is wrong when revealed, are we really talking about god anymore? And what are the rules?

This is why I am not even worried that I got it wrong. If I got it wrong, I can guarantee 99.9+% of the population also got it all wrong.

Fievel Mousekewitz's picture
@LogicFTW

@LogicFTW

Part of your name by itself tells me there probably isn't a god. I welcome any scientific evidence of a god though, as some things, we just don't know for sure. So I am open to the concept of a god, if it could be proved. The only ones who know for sure really are dead. I doubt though there is anything after death, I think life probably just ends.

David Killens's picture
@Fievel Mousekewitz

@Fievel Mousekewitz

My position is very similar to yours. But I consider myself as being pragmatic, and any god has the same status as Micky Mouse and Goofy. Just because having one may be desirable, that does not guarantee it exists. The scientific evidence for Mickey and Goofy is equal to the evidence for a god, and thus it enjoys exactly the same level of belief.

I don't waste much of my time wishing for imaginary beings or fantasies to happen.

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