So I just read that their are a substantially higher number of male atheists than females. Very interesting to me, but not at all surprising, given the fact that men tend to be more logical / fact based, while women tend to be driven more by emotions and feelings.
Is their anyone who thinks this is just a coincidence ?
BTW, I hope nobody is offended by these stereotypes. But also, I'm not super worried about it... as nowadays on internet forums, I answer all negative responses with complete silence :) lol
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Fishy, you wrote, “...given the fact that men tend to be more logical / fact based, while women tend to be driven more by emotions and feelings.”
Really? Have you read some of the emotionally charged posts by men in these forums? ;-)
And, BTW, in the quote above, you assert that your categorizations are fact. Are you able to back that assertion up with data?
and there's the SNAP!!! from cyb
"I hope nobody is offended"
well, there you have it..fishy
hahaha...
i knew it, cyb will be the first one commenting on this..
good thing i'm not one of those "emotional men"
:) lol No matter what one says or does, somebody will "always" be offended anyway, right ? :)
Plus, I think its a universal truth, that some folks will never understand "averages"...
Are you concerned that I’m offended?
Cyber, my 'assertion' in no way, states that men do not have emotions, or be come incensed over subjects for which they are passionate about. Nor do I suggest that their are not 'some men' who act like little b!tches, or some women who are extremely logical (although I never seem to end up with one of those ? ;) lol)
As for men being more logical / fact based, and women being more emotionally driven, I don't think this is even worth arguing. "Most' men and women completely agree on this point.
I'm sure you have heard of the book (even if you haven't read it), "Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars".... I'm pretty sure 'most' people see that title and think, "Well duh....."
I’m sure you’ll forgive my logical, fact based requests then to provide data to back up your assertions.
Oh Fishy! You're using "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" as evidence to back up your assertion? Seriously? Have you read it? I did, and I'll never get that time back.
"Chariots of the Gods" was a 'factual' book. Do you believe it, too?
Oh, and one other question, what on earth is it to ‘act like little bitches’?
The most logical people I have met have mostly been women. In my own poll of past work managers there are 7 women in my top 10.
The majority of men I know are merely boys who cant reason their way out of a paper bag and think they win their unimportant arguments by yelling.
I've met irrational chatterbox women focussed on themselves who lack any intellectual curiosity.
But I am highly skeptical about male/female differences that suggest men are one thing women another. It doesnt match what I have experienced. The brain of either sex will operate differently but only that. Differently, not greater or lesser.
A lot depends on the individual person.
edited...curiosity for intelligence...d'oh
Anger is an emotion familiar to many men and one which impairs rational thought.
I remember looking into the ratio of men to women on websites that allow the rating of movies or music (e.g. IMDB) and the ratio was something like 6 or 7 to 1. I suspect it would be similar here. ...that's because there is something quite guy-ish about rating things and identifying as an atheist for a prolonged period for the purpose of debate. Women overall are more agreeable, more likely to maintain social contacts offline etc.
@sapporo: I am online so much because I am a weird introvert. I don't think that is an exclusively male trait.
Most men and women think god is real. In fact: if you want to convince me something is false; a good first step would be to tell me that most people think it is true.
Okay, let's step back for a moment....
Remember the book I mentioned ? The Venus Mars book ? Does anybody here think their is any truth to that ?
The stuff talked about in that book, has been exactly what I have seen in real life. But if nobody here believes any of that, then their is nothing to discuss about this, on this forum.
That stupid pop psychology book? No thanks.
“When a woman's wave rises she feels she has an abundance of love to give, but when it falls she feels her inner emptiness and needs to be filled up with love.” John Gray - "Men and Women are from Different Planets: Fuck! They're not even the same Species!"
Seriously, Fishy? That quote reads like real life to you? SERIOUSLY?!
Edit to add second quote from that dreadful pseudoscientific book:
“In an unspoken language the Venusians communicated loud and clear: ‘We need you. Your power and strength can bring us great fulfillment, filling a void deep within our being.’”
* Facepalms* COME ON, FISHY! SERIOUSLY?!
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BTW, I found this interesting article. I would have figured the differences to be greater.... And it's just one article, but anyway.
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/women-more-likely-than-men-to-affilia...
I didn’t ask for data on the religiosity differences between women and men. However, from the linked article: “But a definitive, empirically based explanation of why women generally tend to be more religious than men remains elusive. Indeed, as two experts recently wrote, this widely observed pattern is still “a genuine scientific puzzle.”36”
No where was I able to find data that indicates that women are, as you have claimed, more emotional and men more logical. Have you data for that assertion?
Fishy, I still like your questions, but on this topic, actual and supposed differences between the sexes, the way each person thinks and behaves and their theism or atheism, I don't believe any one person could possibly have an explanation that fits all people and circumstances which have been constantly changing over my life at least. There were only mommies and daddies, officially, when I was young.
In Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five, the trans dimensional Tralfamadorians insisted there were actually seven sexes of the human species (which shocked me to the core) and without just one there could be no propagation. Its a fiction of course but I like to think life is just like that.
I forget how many declared sexes are accepted by the UN or whoever it is that decides these things, its close to seven, from memory male, female, lesbian, homosexual, bisexual, trans and something else (I forget, I am an old man).
If you want references I will look them up (just home from work) but it could be we need all of them. I do not include paedophiles, they are well outside acceptable human parameters, no correspondence required..
In any case trying to collate gender and belief, or lack thereof, in any really meaningful way, really needs to be considered on a case by case assessment of each individual...which would take a fucking long time and would be pointless because it all changes pretty quickly these days...screw it...live and let live. :)
Keep asking questions Fishy.
I just remembered the other sexuality I forgot from the previous post. "Celibate", having no sex by choice, usually because you think you are over it..
Cellibate is what I was before I met my current partner. Some people call it "asexual" and while that fits nicely with "atheist" it really means claiming no sexuality at all, identifying as neither male or female, but when I was celibate I still dressed in my usual daggy wardrobe. Hmmm...the first thing my current partner did was make me buy a new wardrobe...I think I have just realised something....
@Grinseed Re: "Hmmm...the first thing my current partner did was make me buy a new wardrobe..."
lol... For some reason that gave me a good chuckle. Partners are funny like that, aren't they? Got a bit of a wardrobe makeover myself at the not-so-subtle urgings of my own spouse during the early days of our relationship. Apparently, long baggy t-shirts and worn jeans do not high fashion sense make. *chuckle* What would we do without our better halves looking out for us? *grin*
Here is an interesting video of Stephen Pinker, discussing the science of gender & science.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bTKRkmwtGY
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Wow, this might be a great video, but I just don't have two hours to devote to it.
If we cannot first agree that women tend to base things more on emotions and feelings while men tend to be more analytical, and base decisions moreso on facts and logic, then we have nothing left to discuss on this matter.
So the rest of you will then just have to sit and wonder why study after study shows a higher percentage of males to be atheists.
To me it's obvious :)
You don't think perhaps women might be reluctant to self-identify with a group notorious for making statements like " So I just read that their are a substantially higher number of male atheists than females. Very interesting to me, but not at all surprising, given the fact that men tend to be more logical / fact based, "? Are you aware of the sexism that has been going on in the atheist movement, Fishy? Much of it has been pretty high profile.
No-one said there wasn't a higher percentage of male atheists than female atheists. That is true. It's the reason you give that is demonstrably not true. The issue is far more complex than "women are more emotional than men" (and by the way, that's not true; men might tend to exhibit different emotions more or less than femles, but we all have the same emotions-- excluding sociopaths and the like.)
Culture and education are two large factors in determining one's belief or not belief of any particular proposition. In a country where women are not allowed to receive the same education as men, they are more likely to remain religious (there does seem to be an indirect relationship between religiosity and education across the board.) In a culture, where influenced by religion or not, that is not evolved enough to put men and women on equal footing, men may tend to be the ones with the most freedom and opportunity and luxury to think about such issues. They might tend to rejecy the claims of religion more readily. This may skew the data.
But to say that the differences between the way men and women think is anything more than a minor contributing factor in the disparity between the numbers of atheists between men and women is shallow thought and near minded.
True, there may be differences in the chemicals which flood our brains due to evolutionary sexual dimorphism and social roles taken in a wild world of the past that may influence our propensities towards this and that behaviour or thought, I think, on the more intellectual matters there is little more difference between is than there is genetic difference between a house cat and an African wild cat (that is to say that the difference is nominal and superficial and circumstantial at best. )
I'm not convinced that even that is true!
eta: I mean I'm not convinced that a higher percentage of men are atheist than women; since there is no way to test that.
@nyarlathotep:
You mean all those who do not believe in god... Sure you're not convinced; there's no way of knowing. But, what we can do, and what I have done is refer to the percentage of professed male versus female atheists. There are several surveys that indicate gender. Pew has this one and others, but it's beside the point.
My point can be reversed even if it was the other way around; that the difference between the thinking of men and women plays less of a role in determining atheism than indicated by the op.
Beside the point, though it may be, here's just one link to research done :
http://www.pewforum.org/2016/03/22/women-more-likely-than-men-to-affilia...
@Fishy: If we cannot first agree that women tend to base things more on emotions and feelings while men tend to be more analytical, and base decisions moreso on facts and logic, then we have nothing left to discuss on.
Then how do you explain that less than 10% of US inmates are female? Ending Up in prison doesn't seem like a very logical way of spending one's only life on.(https://web.archive.org/web/20120623160521/http://www.prisonstudies.org/...). In Europe female inmates are around 5%...
Anger and frustration can be expressed by many ways (violence, crying, depression....) and all of them are the expression of an emotion, and through education people are conditioned to express it differently, according to many factors, among them we could mention gender or social status, and the type of social roles in the particular society they grow in.
And I'm sorry you think there's nothing to discuss about this issue... Because there certainly is.
P.S. I think @Aposteriori gave a perfect explanation for the difference in the number of male atheists. Unfortunately, most women don't enjoy as much opportunities (and free time) as men, to wonder about less mundane questions.
Flamenca, you wrote, “And I'm sorry you think there's nothing to discuss about this issue... Because there certainly is.”
I agree. It’s a subject that absolutely needs to be discussed. I would hope that all folks who are identified as atheist and embrace reason and logic in respect to god(s) would do the same for other matters. Compartmentalizations can be confusing.
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