Hello. I found this: https://y-jesus.com/lp/6-jesus-rise-dead-ttn-n/?utm_source=quora&utm_med...
I am most intrested in "Christianity spreaded so fast if it was hoax" point 7.
Thanks
And are there any people who did as many research disroving Jesus's comabeack?
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Re: OP - "And are there any people who did as many research dis(p)roving Jesus's comabeack?"
Sorry, but I was too busy watching midget rodeo clown porn to bother with the whole Jesus is cumming Christian sites.
@code-beta
Welcome?
We'll see. Sorry don't bother with click bait. Perhaps make an attempt to give an outline of your own views on the questions you've raised.
A couple of brief comments:
How come so many people are Mormons, scientologists, JW's, Muslims, Hindus and Christians ?
One answer ;I don't know nor care. That's just an attempt to shift the burden of proof . Not up to me to prove or disprove anything.I've made no claims.
"And are there any people who did as many research disproving Jesus's comabeack?"
(1) Argument by consensus fallacy. The number of persons engaged in an endeavour or holding a view says nothing about the validity of those views,A claim is either true on its own merits, is untrue or is unknown.
and ( 2) Probably not. Reputable scholars examine the evidence and see where that leads. Neither scholars nor scientists usually waste their time trying to disprove an hypothesis. They DO test claims. Taken overall, in my experience, claims made by all religions tend not to survive even the most casual scrutiny. I make no absolute claim.
As for the second coming. Jesus is reported[ in the gospels] as saying he would return within the life time of some of his disciples , and "soon'" . He didn't turn up, making christianity just another failed millenarian movement .
Unless something spectacular has happened in the the last week or so, nobody has yet managed to even prove the historicity of Jesus .
If you want fuller answers, I refer you to Bart Ehrman's books 'Misquoting Jesus' and 'Lost Christianities" . There are also some pretty good lectures by Ehrman on Youtube.
There may be people here interested enough to give you the in depth answers you want, but I'm not one of them . At least not before you make some an effort to provide your own views.
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The link below is to a lecture by Erhman on "Misquoting Jesus. The Story behind who changed the bible and why"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfheSAcCsrE
On Professor Ehrman's credentials:
"Bart Denton Ehrman (/bɑːrt ˈɜːrmən/; born October 5, 1955) is an American New Testament scholar focusing on textual criticism of the New Testament, the historical Jesus, the origins and development of early Christianity. He has written and edited 30 books, including three college textbooks. He has also authored six New York Times bestsellers. He is currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman
@ OP
Which version of "christianity" are you talking about? In the early 2nd Century there were many different versions: you can split them into sub divisions but there were many, many sub cults:
The Adoptionists
The Gnostics
The Virgin Birthers
The spiritual (not physical) resurrectioners
The Spiritual (not physical) Jesus figure believer (but not gnosis)
The entirely human Jesus figure
Trinitarians
Non Trinitarians
Anti Trinitarians
And just about every other variation you can think of. The christianity version you know today started as a small sub cult of Adoptionism sometime in the mid 1st century. It took 300 years for it to be part of a mainstream religion ....hardly a meteoric rise, it took another 6 centuries to murder, massacre, destroy, burn books and people, and finally claw its way to the top of the tree as regards dominance of its creed.
It them split into warring factions once again from the 16th century resulting in over 40,000 sects and cults worldwide.
Modern Christianity has been spread by the sword since 345CE. It is no miracle. It is the struggle for absolute power by the absolutely corrupt. That is why christianity took 2000 years to rise and then commence its fall.
Anything else you are confused about?
@Code-Beta1234
Christianity did not spread fast. That is a lie. When Constantine validated the Christian faith in Rome, less than 10% of the Romans were Christian and it was basically an underground cult. That was 325 years after its alleged birth.
When the Roman government moved to Constantinople under Constantine it left the Church behind and the Church usurped the power of the Roman government. It survived by burning pagan temples, killing all non-converts to Christianity, and of course raping everyone of their gold and property. Here is your great conversion to the Christian faith. BELIEVE OR DIE! Christianity was spread on the edge of a sword.
Theodosius, against pagans their sacred temples late in the 4th century.
The conversion of figures like Clovis or Vladimir meant that their peoples entered the faith by fiat,
The forced conversion of the Saxons during the later part of Charlemagne's reign.
The brutality of anti-pagan marcher lords like the Teutonic Knights, (The Barbarian Conversion.)
The Crusades....
"Augustine formulated his theory of “just war,” but his terms effectively mean “holy war.” Augustine and the medieval world concluded that violence is not evil. Instead, violence is morally neutral. That makes a crusade possible."
"Augustine gave this example: Suppose a man has gangrene in the leg and is going to die. The surgeon believes the only way to save him is by amputating the leg. Against the man’s will, the surgeon straps him to a table and saws off the leg. That is an act of extreme violence."
https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-40/holy-violence-...
The following is short incomplete and non academic. Its just my quick assessment on the power of the fear of demons in the first century and its part in the spread of Christianity. Demonology still has a considerable influence in Christian faiths today.
After the Edict of Milan wherein all men had the freedom to worship however they wanted, the Christians embarked on a determined elimination of all other pagan religions, the violence and inhumanity employed was justified as 'cruel mercy' required to save souls.
The spread of Christianity was not achieved with just love or through the Holy Spirit or even the promise of an eternal afterlife. It was most effectively achieved through clubs, rocks, fire, torture, death and fuelled by the fear of disease, earthquakes and especially demons. Demons filled the daily lives of the ancient world. The Greek philosophers had laid the groundwork for a comfortable relatonship with 'daimons' which was taken up and modified by the Christians. The philosophers theorised and the superstitious common folk feared.
According to the Greeks not all demons were malevolent. Some were guides and guardians of mankind, equivalent to the angels of Judaism. For the Christians all of them, created by 'God', good and bad, served as intermediaries between 'God' and man. The malevolent demons led by Satan, were particularly nasty and accounted for ill fortune, disaster, disease and all forms of evil. It was believed by some that men committing atrocities or sexual depravities were possessed by demons and were not inherently evil themselves.
Then the Christ, 'the heavenly saviour' was crucified by evil demons in the sub-lunar region between the earth and the moon where he was buried, according to popular apocryphal mystic stories such as St Paul followed. His resurrection was evidence of his power over demons. As Christ now was the only path to God, all demons, not already designated as angels, along with their master Satan were branded as evilly malignant, wishing only the downfall and destruction of man and all mankind was thoughtfully warned to be afraid of their dark influence.
So initially a considerable attraction of Christianity was not the love involved in the self sacrifice of Christ but the power of Christ to destroy demons. No true Christian could never be influenced or overpowered by demons. However the struggle between God and Satan involving angels and demons for the souls of men continued on after the resurrection and would only be resolved at the end of days. But now if a man was guilty of atrocities or depravities it was because he did not believe in Christ and therefore lacked power to resist the affect of demons who would drag him to hell for eternal punishments.
For what its worth.
added...of course this fear of the demonic, the need to combat its influence was employed by the Christian church as a weapon against any dissension. Pagans, common folk and philosophers, pagan temples, pagan academies, statutes, altars, books, libraries were all seen as imbued with demons who scurried around everywhere. Passionate bishops, priests, monks and parishioners were encouraged to cooperate in mobs to kill, burn and destroy them all in the impatient and frightened bid to rid the world of the demon influence. This was all sanctioned by the Church and the Empire which legislated any non christian beliefs as a thought crime. Those not willing to accept forgiveness and immortality in the next life were subject to torment and death in this.
@Code-Beta1234 intrested in "Christianity spreaded so fast if it was hoax" point 7.
How come the Egyptian, Greco-Roman, and Norse pantheons lasted so many centuries if they were a hoax? How come animist beliefs still survive among the Japanese and Maori? How come Hinduism is twice as old Christianity and still going strong?
Size, age, and rate of weight gain are no indications of the truth or value of human beings or religions.
@Code-Beta1234
This website article relies heavily on a book, Who Rolled Away the Stone written in 1930 by one Frank Morison, a pen name for A.H.Ross an advertising agent and freelance writer and a Christian who supposedly follows a thorough examination of the evidence for the crucifixion of Jesus according to the gospels in the format of a criminal investigation. The book proved immensely popular in a predominately Christian culture of England between the wars and was reprinted more than 10 times up to 2006.
The premise is that Ross was a sceptic before researching "contemporary Roman and Jewish history" of which none exists and really only comes down to references from the gospels and excerpts from Josephus (yes the interpolations!), Lucian and Tacitus, neither of whom were contemporary witnesses and who only reported what non-eyewitness Christians professed to believe.
In the end Rolls declares despite his initial scepticism his new confirmed faith: “That Jesus Christ died on the cross, in the full physical sense of the term…seems to me to be one of the certainties of history.” And all without any independent historical research involved. To be fair Rolls did not have the benefit of today's wealth of critical academic assessments of biblical history and writings. Nor did he have the internet.
In 1939 he wrote "And Pilate Said" which also professes to be a frank investigation of the "historical authenticity of the portrait concerning Pilate's role in the trial of Jesus as presented in the four gospels collected in the New Testament" (Wikipedia)
There has never been any contemporaneous records or memory of a trial before Pilate, outside the gospels; no historical record of Jesus as the accused or of Barabas being pardoned, a farcical idea given the draconian nature of Roman law and the man Pilate himself.
In short the 10 "proofs" of the site are based on the unbalanced references from a novel Christian fluff piece dressed up as hard hitting investigative research.
So CB1234 on the strength of this one article I wouldn't give rest of the site much credence.
@ Grin
Good Lord I had completely forgeotten about that old fraud!...Must visit the library and re read.
@Grinseed: Nice catch! 1930? I never would have thought to go there. Usually Cranky is the one that pops up with this obscure but completely factual information.
I love this stuff. Good job!
You know, I think it pretty strange that Old Man, Cranky and myself share interests in historical bits and pieces and we all live in Oz and we all wear black hats...oooo...spookeee or what?
oh...and we're all grumpy old buggers too. lmao
@Grinseed: And AR is a better place for all 3 of you.
@ Grinseed and Cranky
Well I will have to get you two onto electric trikes, then we can get the jackets and faux leather caps....and then.....ROAD TRIPPP!!
Man that would be fun touring church services and banging on JW's doors with you two....being nice to waiters and disrupting LNP meetings...cannot wait!
@ Old Man and Cranky
I am up for that!
The Downunder Road Trip of the Three Grumpy Tri-cyclists of the Apocalypse!
If we make this a youtube event we could probably get crowdfunding for charity events on the trip, AND earn income from endorsements of select pharmaceutical products for the elderly....the possiblilites are unlimited!!
Need a little music to put us in the mood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIfvwwPSHCI
"I wanna live in Australia! I wanna live in Australia!"
"Well I will have to get you two onto electric trikes, then we can get the jackets and faux leather caps....and then.....ROAD TRIPPP!!"
Well that's a fantastic granfalloon!
May I have one those electric gophers? I live halfway down a hill see. I need something with a bit of torque to get me the top of the hill.
I guess I COULD get out and push, but that would defeat the purpose and give me a stroke.
I'd be satisfied at disrupting a Hillsong Godfest. Bunch of irritating wankers.
Is just me or is anyone else very suspicious of people who are really obvious about their religious beliefs and/or patriotism?--EG there's a house around the corner which flies an Australian,New Zealand, AND Aboriginal flag. I guess I'm naive. Unless i have very good reason not to, I simply assume the patriotism of any Aussie I meet. So flying our flag seems ostentatious and redundant.
---puts me in mimd of those morons at the Cronulla riots with the flag wrapped about their person.
@Cranky and Grin
May I have one those electric gophers?
Of course you can...Cranky and I will ride point and you can bring the essential supplies (like wine) in the gopher basket.
Good idea about raiding Hillsong....yeh, I think we should cadge dinner off the buggers first...being poor and elderly 'n all...and then BIFF! BANG! POW! hit 'em with history! Yeah!
Let's do it! How about taking a "present" to our esteemed Cardinal Dr Pell? A signed copy of the Findings of the Royal Commission maybe?
@Old man
"Let's do it! How about taking a "present" to our esteemed Cardinal Dr Pell? A signed copy of the Findings of the Royal Commission maybe?"
The great rock pioneer , Richard Penniman used to send friends gifts of his bowel movements. (if this isn't true, it should be)
I know the slimy cardinal is not a friend. However I think an exception could be made in his case. It is my observation that one's bowel movements become l umm, more generous and more odiferous as we age. I think a group effort is in order.
You three “amigos” actually get me to read these bits of “history” - I’m starting to see what is fascinating. Thanks!!!
Hmmmm, christianity may have spreaded for a reason.
@doG
"Hmmmm, christianity may have spreaded for a reason."
Umm, the wonderfully safe Roman roads throughout the roman empire during the Pax Romana . Also the use of Greek as the lingua franca of the Roman world.
Of course using the term 'the spread of Christianity' is a smidge misleading. One gets the false impression that christianity arose whole in first century Judea. That from where it spread rapidly throughout the Roman empire, at least. (one legend says Thomas didymus went to India)
The religion we call 'christianity' did not exist until after the first Nicene council in 325 ce. A canon was declared, based on he opinion of one man, Athanasius Bishop of Alexandria. At that time, there were dozens of different groups claiming Jesus as their founder, each with their own canon .The very term term 'christian' did not become universal until emperor Theodosius 1 began using it in the fourth century.
Nor was the transition to what we know as 'christianity' peaceful. It was often violent and bloody. With the approval and encouragement of emperor Theodosius, the early church enforced its will by the simple expediency of murdering pagans ,and 'heretics' , and burning any books which were in conflict with the 'agreed' canon. This task was continued with gay abandon for the next thousand years.
Imo there are a goodly number or modern Christians who would continue to burn heretics alive if they could.
@Dog: *Look of Amazement* "Yeaaaaaa........ and then it got bigger...." *Gazing blankly at the banana tree in front of me.*
@exaultedone
You have your own banana tree? Oh, I see, you are one of those privileged chimps.
Anywho, the operative word in my last post was spreaded.
@doG: I had a banana tree. I just smoked the last leaf and now the damn thing is dead. I gotta find something else to smoke. I've heard that people smoke chickens but I always found them too wet on the inside. They just don't burn good.
@cognostic
"@doG: I had a banana tree. I just smoked the last leaf and now the damn thing is dead. I gotta find something else to smoke"
What about a woggle? They're organic. In case you didn't know, a woggle is that thing boy scouts use to keep their scarfe on. They're brown and look like a hand knitted turd. Like so many things made by scouts.
ME? No, I was never a scout. I flatly refused to belong to such a subversive organisation.
@cranky47: *Mulling it over as my internal voice wisps in my internal ear.* "Hand woven turds. Certainly, I have put worse things in my mouth. ..... Do you think Mouskiwitz would smoke one? I wonder what it tastes like? Hmmmm... could I hand weave a pig nose? I miss my pig nose..... Where am I gonna find a boy scout willing go give me his woggle...... Damn... If I was a priest I would know about these things..." *Yawn* "Think about this stuff tomorrow. That butterfly guy will know..... he knows everything..... What's that name again? C......C....... Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz."
Having read the link I'm converting to christianity forthwith....
Just kidding, it's the most preposterous nonsense that makes assumption after assumption, none of it evidences a resurrection, let alone proves it. I almost lost count of the known logical fallacies used, from appeal to authority fallacy where a legal expert decided if this unevidenced 2 thousand year old myth would hold up in court, to appeal to ignorance fallacies making unevidenced conclusions about the unevidenced claim a body disappeared from its tomb. Laughable stuff, seriously risible nonsense.
FYI just because early Christian's cobbled together a book making absurd claims that contradict known scientific facts, doesn't make it true, these cunts would have a field day with Harry Potter or Lord of The Rings...
@ Sheldon
I think you need to buy a black akubra, an electric trike and move to Australia to join our gang. We will supply jacket, patches (as you earn them) and a limited quantity of wine.
Limited wine as Grinseed can only carry 3 cases on his gopher and still make a modest incline.
@OMS
I do have some friends living in Australia, in Sydney though. I have a bike licence as well, road motorbikes for many years. My last bike was a Yamah FZR1000 exup. Bought it from new. Sadly I had to give it up, chronic back pain, and a wife who would not go near a motorbike. I should have binned her and kept the bike in retrospect.
You live and learn. Was it Bismarck who said "only a fool learns from experience"?
@ Sheldon
Legal electric trikes that need no licence or rego are limited to 250W and 26KmH in Australia....so you will be exhilarated to travel at half that speed (gophers for old people like Grinseed are even more limited), but bearing in mind our capacity for drinking red wine, it is probably a good thing.
I was really hoping for a turbo charged 4 wheel drive all terrain gopher for when we get places like Broken Hill, Coober Pedy, and Karatha.
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