2000 years and every proof of a god has been shot down.
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"Let's gather all the christians in one place and hold them factually accountable for their myth. Put them on trial with their life at stake. I'd bet they wouldn't be so cavalier with the facts. I bet that they would want verification and corroboration for every detail if their life depended on it."
You're rather aggressively hostile just because I hold a different view than you.
Gaming something means applying the rules in a way to gain an unfair advantage. In this case, even god coming down to Earth is not enough to convince atheists of anything. Or sending a messenger to work miracles is not enough. You act like you just want proof, but there is no proof good enough.
Let's say someone convinced you that god existed. So what? That means nothing. We don't care if you believe in god. We care if you obey the rules of Christianity, minus the believing in god part. But you have replaced the rules of Christianity with your own rules.
What are those rules you use?
Ah, yes. Most atheists (75%) use rules based on "Equality." I can see real genius in this Equality stuff. What an excellent way to destroy the West or any country. You trash Christianity, but really this Equality stuff would be an embarrassment if it weren't so dangerous.
The other 25% lean libertarian. This group is much more tolerable.
If you believe in nothing then you are open to believing anything. You are open to believing ideas that seem reasonable on the surface but are in fact dangerous. Atheists fill their heads with dangerous ideas based on Equality that flip the world upside-down. One day there will be a price for this, and it will be paid in body count.
@Matt: "We care if you obey the rules of Christianity"
What are the rules of Christianity? Do you mean the Golden Rule? Sorry. That one predates Jesus by at least 500 years in both Buddhism and Confucianism. And in any case, there isn't much evidence of Church leaders in the West practicing that rule, is there?
What type of equality are you talking about? I'm in favor of racial equality, gender equality, and marriage equality, all of which have been ruthlessly opposed by the Christian churches. I'm in favor of equality of opportunity, but I'm emphatically not in favor of enforced economic equality.
I shouldn't have to tell you what equality means: equal outcome. Or as you say, enforced economic equality. When somebody just says equality they mean equal outcome. Equal opportunity is either very difficult to measure or impossible. Pay attention to what social scientists actually measure: The pay gap, number of CEOs, percentages in a particular job, etc. Those are all outcome issues.
People usually don't say equal outcome because to many will figure out that they really mean communism. I support equal opportunity but not equal outcome.
40 Percent Of Americans Now "Prefer Socialism To Capitalism"
'“The most alarming result, according to [George] Barna, was that four out of every ten adults say they prefer socialism to capitalism,” the ACFI noted in its commentary on the poll.
“That is a large minority,” Barna said, “and it includes a majority of the liberals — who will be pushing for a completely different economic model to dominate our nation. That is the stuff of civil wars. It ought to set off alarm bells among more traditionally-oriented leaders across the nation.’” That 40 percent of Americans now prefer socialism to capitalism could spell major change to the policies advanced by legislators and political leaders and to the interpretations of judges ruling on the application of new and pre-existing laws.' - https://is.gd/2woZL1
Socialism is just taking from the rich and giving to the poor. Making things more equal. What's the end goal of socialism?
Socialism is putting out the fires in the forest. Then one day the entire forest burns down because all the little fires couldn't clear out the dead wood and dead bushes.
The rules of Christianity, or the opposite:
Anne Frank: "In spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart."
How many people today believe as Anne did? If you believe in equality, then no doubt you think like Anne. This is the opposite of the Bible and the Torah. Anne was not a good Jew.
What about the whole confederate statue fiasco? They are constantly looking back in time and becoming bitter.
Jesus: Those who constantly look back are not fit for the kingdom of heaven.
Look forward, not backward to the point of becoming bitter.
There's micro-aggressions, but Jesus says to just let them go.
Equality pretty much means the opposite of Christianity. And it looks like Christianity is near death or mostly in a coma which means the equality movement is going to win. Isn't that what you atheists want? Equality will bring you socialism (and high taxes), lots of immigrants from all over (and more terrorism) and free speech will be shut down just like in Europe. That sounds fun.
You sound like a neo-nazi, I know because I knew neo Nazis. You claim that anyone who wants equal justice under the law is a communist, then claim that because Anne Frank believed humans were good, she believed like this and was a communist.
Of course no one above the age of 13 would believe that all people are naturally good, you are living proof to the contrary.
The rest of your horseshit doesn't really bother me, just that you would talk like a Nazi about a dead 13 year old girl.
You sound like a neo-nazi, I know because I knew neo Nazis. You claim that anyone who wants equal justice under the law is a communist, then claim that because Anne Frank believed humans were good, she believed like this and was a communist.
Of course no one above the age of 13 would believe that all people are naturally good, you are living proof to the contrary.
The rest of your horseshit doesn't really bother me, just that you would talk like a Nazi about a dead 13 year old girl.
You are the only person I've ever heard use it that way.
Anne was not a good Jew aye? clarify this statement. What is a good Jew, why was she a bad one? and to a post a made over a week ago, are we born good or evil must be the true question for you here? Why dont you ask her dead family if she was good...wait, they were murdered....
"Ah, yes. Most atheists (75%) use rules based on "Equality." "
I'm interested in where you found the study that shows this. Please share it with us.
Matt, you suffer from the delusion that morality comes from your religion. It doesn't and never did. By and large, Atheists are far more moral and ethical than any christian, the first point being they don't demand blind obedience to a stone-aged myth.
You also assume that all atheist are politically left, that assumption is a lie as well.
You say "equality" as if it is a bad thing. What you leave out about the "equality" thing is that it has everything to do with equal under the law, equal opportunity, respect for individual rights and freedom for all.
In fact, you talk like a racist. The same language the same declaration of fear, the same final threat of a "body count."
The statement "If you believe in nothing then you are open to believing anything." is a non-starter. It assumes that people that don't believe in your god believe in nothing. I for one believe in facts.
The statement "Atheists fill their heads with dangerous ideas based on Equality that flip the world upside-down." is the same kind of nonsense men used to justify not allowing women to vote. It's utter bullshit.
You apparently think freedom of thought and knowledge are dangerous. A very christian idea but also absolutely stupid and backward!
How about we just use common sense, instead of defining what you believe atheists are trying to prove by only using two ideas " equality, and liberation" how about common sense tells us by solid lack of proof, that Christianity and its idea of Christ and his " father" is only born from a book written over and over again? Further, because this book is deemed holy, should be carefully followed as to avoid not being forgiven and thus going to hell. Nope, common sense reminds me of Rumpelstiltskin, or some other fairy tale that is suppose to lead us back to fear that which is story told but has no empirical evidence...
True atheist? Probably not that many, would help if it is recorded with good lighting, 4k resolution, no frame skips, hours of content of miracles that are impossible for humans to replicate or photoshop, etc. Live streamed, and so on. Would also be highly useful if the god identifies him self as I am the "christian god" this bible x is the correct one, and church y is the correct following. Otherwise his appearance is going to create a whole lot of confusion. Also be nice if this god "explained" him self and his many awful actions. It is certainly possible if this "god" idea again decides to to miracles for a few years then stop utterly again people will a few centuries later believe him not real, with good justification. (Why does this "god" only want to show proof of him self to a really select group of people in a really select time period?) The answer? - God is a construct of human imagination and greed.
Which bible specific, highly precise bible prediction has come true centuries after it was written in a carbon dated scientifically verified age bible? I am not talking about vague nonsense, the "even a broken watch displays the correct time twice a day" crap.
Right there, you admit to a problem about the bibles "prophecies" it is super vague, you have no idea when they will happen, and they have not happened yet. Easy to make a "prophecy" if you put no timeline on it. It can conveniently happen long after people that buy into the bible lies have died. The prophecy is never proven wrong!
Also that is one of the most ridiculous and vague prophecies I ever heard. Want a prophecy that will make me a believer? How about a prophecy something like: At 4:51:41 seconds GMT time in Boise Idaho On July 21st 2019 a completely dormant fault line/volcanic region will erupt violently, covering the northern hemisphere in 1 inch or more of ash within a week. With the eruption happening at the intersection of Grant street and Washington avenue.
Prophecies are worthless if they are vague. Exact ones would actually impress. Especially if we can send scientist down there a year from now, verify the problem and evacuate and prepare the area.
Would be a cruel god to say "one day Damascus (so far 1000's of years later) will be obliterated, but mention nothing about the July 1931 China floods that killed 1-4 million people. Or the 2005 Indian ocean earthquake/tsunami that killed at least 200,000 people. Also missed the whole: half of the entire population of Europe dying to "the black death" in just 4 years in the mid 14th century, whoopsie!
Whether god comes down or a prophecy comes true, atheists are never going to believe in his existence. But ...
Actually, it doesn't really matter whether you believe in god. What matters is whether you obey the rules of Christianity. You can just ignore the believing in god part. But atheists want to pick their own rules to live by, and obeying the rules of Christianity is not going to happen.
The real issue is how most atheists decide on the rules to live by.
"You can just ignore the believing in god part. But atheists want to pick their own rules to live by, and obeying the rules of Christianity is not going to happen."
Please, enlighten us. Which rules would those be?
Everyone decides on which rules wants to live by, not just most atheists, but every single human being... Even if you are a Christian, depending of the "Christianity" you've chosen, you'll prefer one rules to the others... Which one of the thousands of different christian creeds has the best rules for you?
I consider myself far better person that most of the christians I've ever known. I would never harm a single being on purpose because I feel compassion and empathy with every animal (human beings included)... In fact, as I said in another thread, the most wicked people I've ever known were devout christians.
I don't need a spy-god on me to behave like a decent person. Most believers certainly do.
This atheist certainly does not plan to "obey" the rules of christianity. If one of the christianity "rules" coincide with my own, for example "thou shalt not kill" I suppose you can say I follow some of the rules, but certainly not some 1000's of years old made up god idea is going to tell me what rules I have to follow.
Even the laws of the place I live I can decide if I want to follow them or not. I am just aware of the real consequences if I break them and get caught. Vs imaginary rules with consequences that supposedly happen after I die.
@Matt the NAZI christian
You said "Actually, it doesn't really matter whether you believe in god. What matters is whether you obey the rules of Christianity."
Fuck THAT ASSHOLE!
You may as well had said Fuck everyone else you must obey me (meaning you).
You don't believe in freedom, in liberty, in justice! You just want everyone to be FORCED to OBEY your fucked up MYTH!
What are you a skinhead?
The best defense (or even offense) against a faulty idea is reasoned discussion, not wild rants.
You assume that a moron will listen to reason. My experience has shown me that the only way to deal with zealots and racists is to confront them head on. Would Hitler listen to reason? Does Trump listen to reason? Does Kim Jong Un listen to reason?
Without trying I have converted at least two zealots from evangelical idealism to some form of atheism. One stated, "That Mykcob4 really got to me."
So I'll use my tactic and you can use yours. I don't need a lecture from you.
Matt
First you have to prove a god is real. If a god is real, it would know how to provide testable evidence that would pass peer review. If a god is proven, then which god is it that humans worship? If a god was proven, then I would no longer be an Atheist. But, it doesn't mean I would worship it. What rules of christianity are you referring to? I live by my belief that you treat others how you want to be treated, and I obey the laws of my country.
edit
DId you read anything he said? If and only if such proof exists, then and only then would atheists believe...but there is no fraction of proof. Therefore, until then atheists believe the rules of Christianity dont exists. The only rule I see atheists make is : wheres your proof"
@Matt: "The nuclear obliteration of Damascus, Syria."
A vague prophecy with no date of fulfillment is pretty much worthless. The Middle East has always been the most volatile region on Earth, and cities there get destroyed with depressing frequency. I can make an equally valid prophecy: Tokyo, Tianjin, and San Fransisco will all be hit by major earthquakes in this millennium.
Matt, I'll have to disagree with you on the prophecy on Damascus. Hardly anything in the Bible is a yet to be fulfilled except Christ's second coming. And, no prophecy's fulfillment can be known beforehand.
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website on Isaiah 17:1:
"Damascus: capital of Aram or Syria, conquered by Tiglath-pileser III at the end of the Syro-Ephraimite War in 732 B.C."
But you do bring up a good point that some people will always choose not to believe even if they say they'd believe if given proof. No video evidence of someone doing hours worth of miracles will ever convince anyone years from now as they'll simply claim it was edited. This happens a lot even with scientific facts (see flat earth society; seriously, that thing is annoying and entertaining in equal measures),and historical facts (see how Millenials in the Philippines see martial law of Marcos; that was just around 30 years ago).
Facts are just that, facts proven by empirical and observable evidence. And even in these cases, unless something happens subjectively, you cannot say ones personal beliefs are wrong, only that you do not understand them according to your own.
For example: If I say I was visited by Aliens last night, most would believe that I had not or that I am mentally ill simply because I cannot validate through observable evidence that it is true. However, even in the midst of viable proof, society says we are imagining things. In group think theory, many believe that there is a collective unconscious energy that makes the law of attraction come to light, as in prayer. This still does not prove prayer helped, only that the power of numbers calculated by energy output manifested a phenomenon that "MAY" have contributed to a prayer being answered. Moreover, even in stances where collective thought was given to god to save ones life did not occur. So, my point here is proof is the pudding as long as it justifies anyones idea of a miracle in any theist or atheist view. This is simple science. Now, if you can prove 30 years ago or a millennia ago any one fact of the bible is true, or that science is irrefutable, it probably has not made enough empirical sense to either party.
That is what I've found. That ability of a humans to rationalize almost anything never ceases to amaze me, especially when I catch myself doing it! And I shudder to think: what have I rationalized and not noticed?
Tossing babies off a cliff is morally acceptible if you were born as a Spartan and lived in their society. Genocide is morally acceptible if you were born and raised as an ancient Hebrew fighting alongside Joshua. Killing Jews is morally acceptible if you were born and raised as a Nazi soldier in the Wehrmacht. Sacrificing humans is morally acceptible if you were an Aztec Indian born and raised in ancient Mexico.
A freedom fighter for one society is a terrorist to another.
So how do we determine whose rights and wrongs to follow?
WHOEVER WINS
Might Makes Right for it is only the winner who gets to decide the moral compass of history.
HI, Randy the Atheist.
Your post is so well articulated, that I almost feel embarrassed to point this out, but the truth is
III Reich only lasted for 11 years (the last 6 at war), so about being a Nazi soldier, maybe raised, but born?
Anyways, I love your post. Raw wisdom.
Hi Angibot and Randy: One thing about the III Reich, is that in those years over 6 million Jews, homosexuals, and gypsies were executed...not to mention those who helped them. Yes, raised,and baptized under Christianity, to turn around and take away humanity and kill without regret and with much vigor millions of people. I ask, whether born or raised, unthinkable acts such as those done during the Reich cannot be disputed by simple born or raised, there is a larger question here. AGain, ill bring up group think theory...food for thought, thanks
Mycob,
LOL, this is in pun only- the bible said the devil wears sheep's clothing, makes more sense toward the theists than the none theists as in us atheists must watch out for them LOLOLOLOL
Sorry, had to
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