Actual evidence?

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Lmale's picture
Actual evidence?

Someone today told me there are skeletons and equipment in the red sea and that proves the bible.
Ive never heard if that is that true?
Since the Egyptians had written language (before the bible i think not sure)have expected some mention of the 10 plagues. Anyone seen any?
So what im asking is there any historical confirmation of anything in the bible that wasnt written by a christian.

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Danny Craft's picture
If there was any solid

If there was any solid evidence (which is technically impossible,) you can be certain it would be mentioned at every service, and by every theist in every debate.. I haven't heard of the points you made, but you can rest assured there isn't and will never be real evidence for any religion. You just have to believe and obey and remember to not question.
.. Even if there was some real evidence that proved certain points in the bible, it still wouldn't prove the entire religion.

Same to ya.. Good luck mate. If you soften your heart, I'd get it checked out by a doctor!
.. And remember, we believe only what we want to believe. And belief and real knowledge are two very different things.

Danny Craft's picture
I believe you create the

I believe you create the evidence in your own mind once you believe.. If I'm wrong, please explain what evidence you found?

Danny Craft's picture
Okay so you didn't actually

Okay so you didn't actually explain the evidence. I'm not asking for details about your daughter, just the medical condition maybe? .. Apart from that you only say "superhuman love" which I assure you my friend was in fact, just human love. It's an incredibly powerful thing and should be fully embraced, not misunderstood as some divine power. That actually kinda takes the real power of it away!
.. This world is a dark place, I understand that when so much good happens at once it can seem so unreal that it just must be some higher being making it happen, so you believe so. To me it makes it all the more amazing to KNOW that actually hey, a lot of great things just happened, I'm going to be happy about that..
.. What is this leap of faith you keep mentioning?

You could travel thousands of light-years and still never find something as complex as our brains. So complex it can play tricks on it's host. Make no mistake, if you WANT to hear a spirit speak to you so much, your mind will make you think it happened. So I think really, you made that happen, just by thinking it. Don't underestimate your own mind mate, cause without it, there's nothing else.

Lmale's picture
Im not uncomfortable just

Im not uncomfortable just open minded unlike most theists. If i hear something i want to know if its true.
For example theists keep claiming Einstein was a theist so i did some research true he made a nice quote in a friends bible (who then sold it just typical) but many quotes prove he was not a theists. Theists took one nice thing done for a friend and twisted it into an endorsement.
So i check anything a theist says.

Roy Lofquist's picture
"I don't believe that God

"I don't believe that God plays dice with the universe". A. Einstein commenting on quantum mechanics.

Lmale's picture
The word God is for me

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text.

- Albert Einstein

ex-christian_atheist's picture
You cannot say anything a

You cannot say anything a human does is superhuman. If 70% of people in the world are Christians aand those people love with "superhuman love" then the majority of humans love this way, amd it is by definition, normal human love.

Lmale's picture
Man i like you your posts are

Man i like you your posts are always belters.

Lmale's picture
Im pretty sure most of the

Im pretty sure most of the parents of the 9 million children under 5 that die each year prayed for a miracle.
How about the starving the poor. You think they all dont pray?
Atheism a trick??? Atheism is simply not believing stories. You want me to believe show me evidence.
Infact lets ignore evidence for a moment justify your god. Why him and not the other 30,000 christianity sects or the 4100 non christian religions.
Why does your god deserve worship.

Lmale's picture
1 this thread is called

1 this thread is called actual evidence.
2 i specifically said lets put evidence aside.
I wanted you to explain why your god deserves to be worshiped and what makes other faiths wrong.

Lmale's picture
No i asked for one good thing

No i asked for one good thing the church did and gave him examples of many bad things they did. He tried to argue the church blocking contraception was a good thing. Im the one that said the only reason to block contraception is to stop sex for fun because they consider that a sin.

Lmale's picture
Hey heres a question that

Hey heres a question that really needs an answer given that religions all state we are the most important thing in creation.
Why did the universe exist for roughly 9.2 billion years before our sun was made seems kinda stoooooopiiidddd

SammyShazaam's picture
The best explanation given to

The best explanation given to me was by my cousin (who claims himself a theist, but I think it's for familial reasons). He says that practice makes perfect, and it took God quite a while to get it right for us.

Of course, we both nearly died laughing thinking exactly how many of those star "mistakes" are floating around out there. If you ask me, I'd say we're a failed prototype if there really is a creator out there trying to craft a perfect species in his image.

Lmale's picture
Ok since no one answered my

Ok since no one answered my op i did some research. The red sea claims are billshit. My source is linked.

Lmale's picture
And since one is never
Roy Lofquist's picture
In answer to your question,

In answer to your question, yes there is overwhelming confirmation of the events described in the Bible. The most complete explication of these are contained in "Asimov's Guide to the Bible".

Azimov was a confirmed atheist.

Lmale's picture
Answer is no http:/
Roy Lofquist's picture
You asked whether there was

You asked whether there was any independent secular confirmation of events described in the Bible. I replied with a link to a seminal source. I don't understand why you are being tendentious.

Lmale's picture
You linked me to a book on

You linked me to a book on amazon written by asimov who is a scifi writer so i checked up on asimov and posted a link. I cannot read the book but i can be fairly certain if he verified the bible he wouldnt have remained an atheist and wouldnt have denounced the bible. A quote from his book is on the link i posted but ill post the quote here:
"As it happens, Josephus, who mentions John the Baptist, does not mention Jesus. There is, to be sure, a paragraph in his history of the Jews which is devoted to Jesus, but it interrupts the flow of the discourse and seems suspiciously like an afterthought. Scholars generally believe this to have been an insertion by some early Christian editor who, scandalized
that Joesphus should talk of the period without mentioning the Messiah, felt the insertion to be a pious act."

So it was written after the fact thats called lying.

Another important quote

"Although the time of death is approaching me, I am not afraid of dying and going to Hell or (what would be considerably worse) going to the popularized version of Heaven. I expect death to be nothingness and, for removing me from all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism."

Im disappointed you did not check my link i checked yours. I would have liked to discuss his quotes.

Roy Lofquist's picture
I did follow your link. It is

I did follow your link. It is a collection of quotes, some attributed, some not, with no supporting arguments.

It would be difficult to discuss Asimov's quotes because there are so many of them. He authored and published more than 500 books, a very small number of them being science fiction.

His "Guide to the Bible" collects the known historical facts from all sources as to the events described. Where appropriate he explains the beliefs they engendered and contrasts them with other contemporary beliefs, expressing no opinion as to the validity of those beliefs.

The Bible is a collection of the written and oral history of 13 tribes, united by religion. It is highly selective as to which writings (books) are included. The selection was exercised by The Roman Catholic Church, the criteria being orthodoxy. There is much debate as to the choices made - see Apocrypha.

Having said that, The Bible is the most complete and coherent history we have of a single group of people covering 4000 years. The consensus is that the events described are, for the most part, supported by independent contemporary writings.

Lmale's picture
The bibles been so thoroughly

The bibles been so thoroughly edited that no one can say what the original said. The quote shows stuff was added much later and could have just been made up.
Im also aware that the church discarded a story of jeasus as a babe meeting a flock of dragons and telling them to go and sleep.
I think it was ment as an attempt to prove dragons existed so revelations didnt look so stupid.

Roy Lofquist's picture
I think you may have missed

I think you may have missed something. The writings of Josephus, a friend and translator for Titus (Vespasian's son), are in no way mentioned in or connected to The Bible. The fact that someone may have tampered with his writing is irrelevant when assessing the provenance or authenticity of The Bible.

The authenticity of The Bible has been debated by scholars for centuries. Not much has been settled. For a brief account see:

You will find scant evidence that fraud (lying) is of major concern. It is, rather, disagreements about historical evidence that fuels the debate.

Lmale's picture
Properly read, the Bible is

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
The old testament was in fact

The old testament was in fact a history book of the Jewish people, created long after they have crossed.
This means that there were some exaggerations, cutting and editing involved.

There are some evidence that show that some episodes in the bible did occur.
Most of the factions were mentioned in the bible except the Sumerians.
Most cities mentioned in the bible were actually found.

And i think the crossing did occur.

I think some theist was looking for this video:

The point being is that it proves nothing about god in reality.
Even if we could travel in the past and see it with our own eyes, it won't mean that everything he said is truth.

This is the point in the end.

Roy Lofquist's picture


I have been following this debate for 60+ years. Smoke, mirrors, persiflage and red herrings make it hard to separate the Wheaties from the Cheerios.

An overwhelming part of the debate consists of attempting to invalidate particular beliefs or assertions. Even when successful all these arguments do is demonstrate that some person or people are wrong, mistaken. Well, I probably score high on the all time list of mistakes simply due to my longevity.

As I see it, the fundamental question is whether we can confidently say that there are real things that defy attempts at explanation by natural science (materialism). They are, by definition, supernatural.

The greatest extant mystery is the origin of life. To date, attempts to account for cells and DNA by known physical laws have come to nought. This fact is what caused Antony Flew to abandon atheism.

The generic term for a materialist theory of origin is abiogenesis. For an in depth explication of the efforts to formulate a theory see:

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
I have been debating for 5

I have been debating for 5 years and it doesn't mean that I am better then you or vice versa. It depends on how much study have you done before making your arguments.
I might suck completely on a topic and be an expert on an other. Time has little to do about how right you are in an argument.

"As I see it, the fundamental question is whether we can confidently say that there are real things that defy attempts at explanation by natural science (materialism). They are, by definition, supernatural."

well there is one of your mistakes right there.
Supernatural things do not exist period.
If god exists, it just means that there is a science behind him that we haven't discovered yet, that would explain his existence.
Thus he is also part of the natural realm.
Supernatural is a fictional term we humans invented for stuff which are not natural occurring.

If I wake up tomorrow and see a pig flying, that is not supernatural, I would just have discovered a new specie or I am suffering from hallucinations.
There is always a cause for an effect.
Nothing comes out of nothing, usually what you call nothing is not nothing at all.
The tendency is that you lack the knowledge to understand it yet.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
When the Op is asking for

When the Op is asking for actual evidence he is asking you to deliver the science that would explain such a god the theist believes in.
Proving that YAHWEH existed and that he had the power to do miracles does not answer the question at all, since you do not believe in him because he existed/exists or has powers.
You believe in him since you believe what the priest/church say about your god.

He is just/merciful/loving/all knowing/can do everything/etc...
If he wasn't all of these it wouldn't be your god right?

You must show evidence that this Yahweh guy is the same person to even start thinking about showing evidence that he is just/merciful/loving/all knowing/can do everything/etc...

As far as I see it from the bible, the new testament god is a completely different person then the old testament god.
This is from reading the bible alone, not even to be considered as evidence.

Lets just assume for the moment that this Yahweh existed and did all those powerful things, does this show that the christian god exists?
Lets just assume that the christian god exist, does that mean that everything written about him in the bible is true?, or that everything he says is true?
This idea that just because something exists or a miracle occurred thus everything is true is absurd and unscientific.

With the same idea:

if I don't lie about my age then I never lie.

See the fallacy here?

This kind of reasoning is what makes theists fail in every single debate and argument they jump in since they constantly make this Affirming the Consequent fallacy.
Just because we think that god is truth and can do miracles, if someone can do those miracles then he is god and everything he says is truth.

Lmale's picture
The origin of life is not

The origin of life is not unanswerable in point of fact the problem is there are too many answers. We have discovered amino acids deep within meteorites that are older than the planet. We have detected sugar in gas clouds in space. We have fairly good reason to suspect bacteria on mars and logic shows there may be life on one of jupitors moons the ice one the name slipped my mind.
So its looking like life is in fact pretty common. Unless god created the universe then waited for 9.2 billion years to create our solar system then created the earth and waited another 3 billion years to make us then put life on mars and in a moon of Jupiter without bothering to mention it in his book then its not looking good.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
To answer Op question about

To answer Op question about some of the evidence regarding the old testament, not the entire bible.

I think you may find this video interesting.

Lmale's picture
Interesting but its a mash of

Interesting but its a mash of two documentaries designed to cover the ending of the first one.
The bible never named the pharoh i find this odd since pharoh is a title they had names. And by the way the ark happend after the so called exodis and is obviously a copy of the Egyptian arks.
Reading the comments the video is a plagarism of a 1990 document, also the christians are saying it proves them and non christians saying it proves them.


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