AJ777, problem of Evil and cosmological argument.

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Sheldon's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

"Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Care to change that view?"

Oh, check fucking mate...I can't wait to see him ignore that one.

Empedocles's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

"Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Care to change that view?"

Oh, check fucking mate...I can't wait to see him ignore that one.

All he would have to do is compare translations and see that most modern translations don't render the Hebrew ra as evil in Isaiah 45:7, but calamity. The KJV is a really bad translation. For example, it translates the Hebrew reʼem′ as unicorns instead of what it should be, wild bulls. The Douay is just as bad doing the same thing at Psalm 21:22; 28:6; 91:11.

But even if it should say evil, what does that mean? That to those suffering the consequences of God's judgement, the events that follow would seem evil. Bad, calamitous, injurious or any of the similar words that the Hebrew ra can be translated into depending upon the context.

Sheldon's picture
Yes I'm familiar with

Yes I'm familiar with the ludicrous line of religious apologetics that asserts a deity with limitless knowledge and power can only really communicate clearly as a monoglot. Its absurd, as is citing the bible over and over in your apologetics then claiming it's been incorrectly translated when it's texts inconveniently contradict your claims or beliefs. Why do theists not correct these errors and bring out a definitive translation? They've had long enough after all.

Hand waving unwelcome facts away is something I've seen religious apologists excel at for many many years now.

So why do you think your deity couldn't inspire a message that would overcome the idiosyncrasies of human language? That doesn't sound like omniscience or omnipotence to me.

Wouldn't the errors be more simply explained if the entire book were entirely human in origin? This wouldn't require any assumptions, and would also explain why much of its appalling morality has dated so badly, as much of it reflects the moral attitudes of the ignorant bronze age Bedouins living in nomadic patriarchal tribes that it was derived from.

As the late Christopher Hitchens pointed out, can anyone really believe it hadn't occurred to the Hebrews that moratoriums on behaviours like ubiquitous murder and theft were a good idea in societal animals? This seems to insult their intelligence as much as the reader's.

Talyyn's picture
"That to those suffering the

@Empedocles

"That to those suffering the consequences of God's judgement, the events that follow would seem evil."

Your position, simply stated, seems to be that because Jeovah is the boss, whatever he does is good. I guess drowning an entire planet, not only humans but all of other living species is fine since it is God's desire.

I guess destroying an entire city, because all adult men want to rape angels... wait isn't this story a liite silly, as if fucking angels can't defend themselves?

Your God is fond of disproportionate retribution, and this is not moral.

Empedocles's picture
@Talyyn

@Talyyn

If you speed that is evil. If you get caught and punished that is evil. Evil is subjective.

Now, in the Bible you have the account of the flood. If the Bible is true then the flood was brought about to save mankind from itself. Only the creator, if he exists, could make that call. Like if you had an aquarium and there was some fish in there that had only one purpose and that was to destroy all of the other fish, you would likely get those fish out of there. You could put them somewhere else but they would just destroy themselves eventually.

Talyyn's picture
@Empedocles,

@Empedocles,

"Evil is subjective"... Then your god has no more right that anyone else to make justice.

"Only the creator, ,IF HE EXISTS, could make that call"... So since he is our creator he has all rights on us.

No if one fish want to kill all other fishs you only remove that fish from the aquarium.

The god you believe in in not the monotheistic one that is sure, because if it was, being omni anything would mean that he could find another solution to the problem.

Sheldon's picture
AJ777 "Hell which was created

AJ777 "Hell which was created for the devil and his angels is where God is not able to be enjoyed. God is all powerful necessarliy. He did not create evil because evil is nothing. If good is the donut, evil is the donut hole where there is no donut."

What a load of specious nonsense. By that logic you don't think endemic rape of children in the catholic church is evil, or are you saying it is nothing? You previously claimed torturing children was immoral, and evil is defined as profoundly immoral or wicked behaviour. So is the rape of a child evil or not? Because it is endemic in the largest oldest christian church among its priesthood.

Your donut analogy is the most facile analogy I've yet seen, why do religious apologists always use hopeless analogies. For a start evil and suffering are endemic, even without any human action, one only has to imagine the suffering caused by disease and predation for hundreds of millions of years before humans evolved.

Talyyn's picture
AJ777 doesn't even offer

AJ777 doesn't even offer original thoughts,it is the absence of god theodicy.

Sheldon's picture
Well when asked for his best

Well when asked for his best evidence for a deity he produced the Kalam cosmological argument, that hit home fairly hard that he had nothing original to offer. I've said it before and I will say it again, William Lane Craig has a lot to answer for.

Randomhero1982's picture
"Gods are unprovable bollocks

"Gods are unprovable bollocks, dreamt up by the incredulous to explain and control the gullible.
Good and evil are formed from the morality of social constructs that were created via species".

Book of Dave 7.12

AJ777's picture
From gotquestions website:

From gotquestions website:

Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"

Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

Talyyn's picture
@AJ777,

@AJ777,

You ran to this apologist site? I will use the ESV version with all the text:

Cyrus, God's Instrument

"1 Thus says the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have grasped, to subdue nations before him and to loose the belts of kings, to open doors before him that gates may not be closed: 2 "I will go before you and level the exalted places, I will break in pieces the doors of bronze and cut through the bars of iron, 3 I will give you the treasures of darkness and the hoards in secret places, that you may know that it is I, the LORD, the God of Israel, who call you by your name. 4 For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, 6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other. 7 I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. 8 "Shower, O heavens, from above, and let the clouds rain down righteousness; let the earth open, that salvation and righteousness may bear fruit; let the earth cause them both to sprout; I the LORD have created it. 9 "Woe to him who strives with him who formed him, a pot among earthen pots! Does the clay say to him who forms it, 'What are you making?' or 'Your work has no handles'? 10 Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' or to a woman, 'With what are you in labor?'" 11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him: "Ask me of things to come; will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands? 12 I made the earth and created man on it; it was my hands that stretched out the heavens, and I commanded all their host. 13 I have stirred him up in righteousness, and I will make all his ways level; he shall build my city and set my exiles free, not for price or reward," says the LORD of hosts."

Now, we can work.

arakish's picture
AJ777: "The word translated

AJ777: "The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” (cited from an apologist web site).

Even if we use the other words “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery”, this just means your sky faerie is an Evil, Immoral Monster since it creates such evil. Remember the adage about a spade?

rmfr

Randomhero1982's picture
So either way, this god chap

So either way, this god chap is a bit of horrible wanker?

It's almost like... they made up another book to, I don't know.... make him more lovable?!

It's almost like, the sort of shit humans would do...

Strange...

So strange...

All these miracles being performed by an all knowing god, in an era with no way off definitively proving it...

Well if I didn't know any better, I'd think this was utterly bollocks...

With all the technology and intellect we have today, but he'd prefer to demonstrate his glory in some medieval shithole in the middle of no where and only tell a few arseholes and leave no way of proving any of it...

It's uncanny!!!!!

Well, I'm convinced boys!

AJ777's picture
God can’t be objectively evil

God can’t be objectively evil if He doesn’t exist. You have to use objective biblical morality in order to condemn Him.

arakish's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

God can’t be objectively evil if He doesn’t exist. You have to use objective biblical morality in order to condemn Him.

OK. You asked for it. Just as Richad Dawkins said in The God Delusion

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction; jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving, control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

“Dawkins Was Too Kind,” Barker said as he added another eight characteristics: pyromaniacal, angry, merciless, curse-hurling, vaccicidal, aborticidal, cannibalistic and slavemonger. And to this Unpleasant Companion, he adds homicidal, evil, and terrorist.

And as I was already doing this, but Dan Barker beat me to it. I was collecting all the verses that describe your deity in the Bible as everything Richard Dawkins said, and as Dan Barker added later.

Aborticidal - the killing of an unborn fetus, an abortifacient. Abortifacient: Causing abortion.
Numbers 5:21–22
Hosea 9:11–16
Hosea 13:16

Angry - having a strong feeling of or showing annoyance, displeasure, or hostility.
Exodus 15:6-8
Exodus 22:20-24
Exodus 32:9-10
Exodus 4:14
Numbers 11:1
Numbers 11:10
Numbers 11:10
Numbers 11:33
Numbers 12:9
Numbers 16:46
Numbers 22:22-30
Numbers 25:3
Numbers 25:4
Numbers 32:13-14
Deuteronomy 1:34-37
Deuteronomy 11:16
Deuteronomy 11:16-17
Deuteronomy 29:18-20
Deuteronomy 29:22-24
Deuteronomy 29:27-28
Deuteronomy 3:26
Deuteronomy 31:17
Deuteronomy 32:22
Deuteronomy 4:21
Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Deuteronomy 7:3-4
Deuteronomy 9:19-22
Deuteronomy 9:7-8
Joshua 22:18
Joshua 23:16
Joshua 7:1
Joshua 7:26
Judges 10:7
Judges 2:14
Judges 2:20
Judges 3:8
1 Samuel 11:6-7
2 Samuel 22:8-9
2 Samuel 24:1
2 Samuel 6:6-7
1 Kings 11:9
1 Kings 14:15
1 Kings 14:9-10
1 Kings 16:13
1 Kings 16:1-3
1 Kings 16:26
1 Kings 16:33
1 Kings 16:7
1 Kings 21:22
1 Kings 22:53
2 Kings 13:3
2 Kings 17:11
2 Kings 17:17
2 Kings 17:18
2 Kings 21:14-15
2 Kings 21:14-15
2 Kings 21:6
2 Kings 22:13
2 Kings 22:17
2 Kings 23:19
2 Kings 23:26
2 Kings 24:20
1 Chronicles 13:10
2 Chronicles 12:12
2 Chronicles 19:10
2 Chronicles 19:2
2 Chronicles 25:15
2 Chronicles 28:25
2 Chronicles 28:9-11
2 Chronicles 29:8-10
2 Chronicles 30:8
2 Chronicles 32:26
2 Chronicles 34:21
2 Chronicles 34:25
Ezra 10:14
Ezra 5:12
Ezra 7:23
Ezra 8:22
Ezra 9:14
Nehemiah 13:18
Job 16:9
Job 19:11
Job 20:21-23
Job 20:28
Job 21:17-20
Job 4:9
Job 42:7
Job 9:13
Job 9:4-6
Psalm 102:9-10
Psalm 106:29
Psalm 106:40-41
Psalm 110:5
Psalm 18:7-8
Psalm 2:11-12
Psalm 2:4-6
Psalm 21:9
Psalm 38:1
Psalm 56:7
Psalm 59:13
Psalm 6:1
Psalm 60:1
Psalm 69:24
Psalm 7:11
Psalm 7:6
Psalm 74:1
Psalm 76:7-8
Psalm 78:21-22
Psalm 78:38
Psalm 78:49-50
Psalm 78:58-59
Psalm 79:2
Psalm 79:5-6
Psalm 80:4
Psalm 85:3-5
Psalm 88:16
Psalm 88:6-7
Psalm 89:38
Psalm 89:46
Psalm 90:11
Psalm 90:7
Proverbs 16:14
Proverbs 24:17-18
Ecclesiastes 5:6
Isaiah 1:24
Isaiah 10:24-26
Isaiah 10:4-6
Isaiah 12:1
Isaiah 13:13
Isaiah 13:2-6
Isaiah 13:9-10
Isaiah 30:27,30,33
Isaiah 34:2
Isaiah 42:25
Isaiah 47:6
Isaiah 5:25
Isaiah 51:17
Isaiah 51:20
Isaiah 54:8
Isaiah 57:17
Isaiah 59:17
Isaiah 63:1-6
Isaiah 63:3
Isaiah 64:9
Isaiah 66:15
Isaiah 9:12
Isaiah 9:19
Isaiah 9:21
Jeremiah 10:10
Jeremiah 10:25
Jeremiah 11:17
Jeremiah 12:13
Jeremiah 15:14
Jeremiah 17:4
Jeremiah 21:12
Jeremiah 21:5-6
Jeremiah 23:19-20
Jeremiah 25:15
Jeremiah 25:6-7
Jeremiah 30:23-24
Jeremiah 32:29-32
Jeremiah 32:37
Jeremiah 33:5
Jeremiah 36:7
Jeremiah 4:26-27
Jeremiah 4:4
Jeremiah 4:4
Jeremiah 4:8
Jeremiah 42:18
Jeremiah 44:3
Jeremiah 44:6-7
Jeremiah 44:7-8
Jeremiah 49:37
Jeremiah 50:13
Jeremiah 50:25
Jeremiah 51:45
Jeremiah 52:3
Jeremiah 6:11
Jeremiah 7:18
Jeremiah 7:20
Jeremiah 7:29
Jeremiah 8:19
Lamentations 1:12
Lamentations 2:1-4
Lamentations 2:6
Lamentations 3:1-3
Lamentations 3:42-44
Lamentations 4:11
Lamentations 4:11
Leviticus 26:27-29
Leviticus 26:28
Ezekiel 13:12-15
Ezekiel 14:19
Ezekiel 16:38-43
Ezekiel 20:13
Ezekiel 20:21
Ezekiel 20:33-35
Ezekiel 20:8
Ezekiel 21:31-32
Ezekiel 21:5-17
Ezekiel 22:20-22
Ezekiel 22:22
Ezekiel 22:31
Ezekiel 23:25
Ezekiel 24:13
Ezekiel 24:8
Ezekiel 25:14
Ezekiel 25:17
Ezekiel 30:15
Ezekiel 36:18
Ezekiel 36:6
Ezekiel 38:18
Ezekiel 38:19
Ezekiel 43:8
Ezekiel 5:13
Ezekiel 5:15-16
Ezekiel 6:12-13
Ezekiel 7:2
Ezekiel 7:3
Ezekiel 9:8
Daniel 9:16
Hosea 13:11
Hosea 5:10
Hosea 8:5
Jonah 3:9
Micah 5:14-15
Micah 7:9
Nahum 1:2
Nahum 1:6
Nahum 1:6
Habakkuk 3:12
Habakkuk 3:8
Zephaniah 2:1-3
Zephaniah 3:8
Zephaniah 3:8
Malachi 1:2-4
Zechariah 1:12
Zechariah 1:14-15
Zechariah 1:2
Zechariah 10:3
Zechariah 7:12
Zechariah 8:14
Zechariah 8:2

Bloodthirsty - eager to shed blood and containing much violence.
Exodus 24:4-6
Exodus 29:10-12
Exodus 29:15-16
Exodus 30:10
Leviticus 1:10-11
Leviticus 1:15
Leviticus 1:5
Leviticus 14:14
Leviticus 16:14-15
Leviticus 16:18-19
Leviticus 16:27
Leviticus 17:11
Leviticus 17:6
Leviticus 20:11-12
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 20:16
Leviticus 20:27
Leviticus 20:9
Leviticus 3:13
Leviticus 3:2
Leviticus 3:8
Leviticus 4:16-18
Leviticus 4:17
Leviticus 4:25
Leviticus 4:30
Leviticus 4:34
Leviticus 4:5
Leviticus 4:6
Leviticus 4:7
Leviticus 5:9
Leviticus 7:14
Leviticus 8:15
Leviticus 8:23-24
Leviticus 8:30
Leviticus 9:12
Leviticus 9:18
Leviticus 9:9
Numbers 18:17
Numbers 19:1-5
Deuteronomy 32:39-43
1 Kings 2:9
2 Kings 9:33-37
2 Chronicles 29:22-24
2 Chronicles 35:11
Isaiah 34:2-3
Isaiah 34:6
Isaiah 63:6
Jeremiah 46:10
Jeremiah 48:1,10
Ezekiel 14:19
Ezekiel 16:38
Ezekiel 24:8
Ezekiel 28:22-23
Ezekiel 3:16,20
Ezekiel 32:6
Ezekiel 35:6
Ezekiel 38:22-23
Ezekiel 39:17-18
Ezekiel 5:17
Joel 2:30
Zephaniah 1:17

Bully - a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.
Exodus 10:1-2
Exodus 14:4
Exodus 15:6-8
Exodus 9:15-16
Exodus 9:16
Leviticus 24:16
Deuteronomy 28:58-59
Deuteronomy 32:39
Job 40:1-2
Job 40:6-9
Job 9:22-23
Job 9:30-31
Psalm 46:8-10
Isaiah 2:19
Ezekiel 20:25-26
Ezekiel 20:25-26
Ezekiel 28:22-23
Ezekiel 28:22-23
Ezekiel 38:19-20
Ezekiel 38:22-23
Ezekiel 6:5-10
Habakkuk 3:3-6

Cannibalistic - a person who eats the flesh of other human beings.
Leviticus 26:27–29
Deuteronomy 28:47–57
Deuteronomy 28:53
Isaiah 9:19–20
Isaiah 49:25–26
Jeremiah 19:7–9
Lamentations 2:20
Lamentations 4:9–11
Ezekiel 5:8–10

Capriciously Malevolent - given to sudden and unaccountable changes of mood or behavior and having or showing a wish to do evil to others.
Exodus 32:7-14
Exodus 4:11
Deuteronomy 29:1
Joshua 11:20
1 Samuel 15:10-11
Job 10:8
Job 19:6-11
Job 2:3
Job 23:16
Job 42:11
Job 6:4
Job 9:17-18
Job 9:22-24
Proverbs 16:4
Isaiah 45:7
Isaiah 45:7
Isaiah 9:17
Jeremiah 26:19
Ezekiel 20:21-22
Ezekiel 20:25-26
Lamentations 3:38
Amos 3:6

Control Freak - a person who is obsessed with or unusually enthusiastic in a wild and irrational way about the power to influence or direct people's behavior or the course of events due to the effects of extreme mental illness.
Exodus 20:25
Exodus 25:8–31
Exodus 25:31–40
Exodus 26:1–13
Exodus 27:19
Exodus 28:4–42
Exodus 29:10–14
Exodus 30:17–21
Exodus 31:1–6
Exodus 36:1
Leviticus 15:1–33
Deuteronomy 2:2–24
Deuteronomy 14:21
1 Samuel 2:6–7
Job 12:10
Isaiah 14:24
Isaiah 45:6–7
Jeremiah 10:23

Curse-hurling - a solemn utterance vehemently intended to invoke a supernatural power to inflict harm or punishment on someone or something.
Genesis 12:3
Genesis 3:14
Genesis 3:17
Genesis 4:9-11
Deuteronomy 11:26-28
Deuteronomy 27:15-26
Deuteronomy 28:15-20
Deuteronomy 29:10-27
Deuteronomy 29:20
Deuteronomy 29:26-27
Deuteronomy 30:19
Deuteronomy 30:7-8
Judges 5:23
1 Samuel 26:19
2 Chronicles 34:24-25
Nehemiah 13:25
Psalm 37:22
Proverbs 3:33
Isaiah 24:1,6
Jeremiah 11:3-4
Jeremiah 17:5-6
Jeremiah 17:5-6
Jeremiah 44:2-9,22
Lamentations 3:64-66
Ezekiel 32:3-15
Daniel 9:11
Malachi 2:2-3
Malachi 4:6

Ethnic Cleanser - the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society. The systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory by a more powerful ethnic group, often with the intent of making it ethnically homogeneous.
Exodus 21:15
Exodus 22:20
Exodus 23:23-24,33
Exodus 32:27-29
Exodus 34:11-13
Leviticus 20:10
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 24:13-16
Leviticus 26:21-22
Leviticus 26:30-31
Numbers 1:51
Numbers 21:2-3
Numbers 25:4-5
Numbers 31:9-10
Numbers 33:50-53
Numbers 33:52-53
Deuteronomy 12:2-3
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 17:12
Deuteronomy 18:20
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Deuteronomy 7:1-2
Deuteronomy 7:21-25
Joshua 11:21-22
Joshua 8:28
Judges 2:2
1 Samuel 15:3
1 Kings 18:39-40
2 Kings 19:35
2 Chronicles 14:2-5
2 Chronicles 15:13
2 Chronicles 28:9
2 Chronicles 34:1-7
Nehemiah 13:1-3
Esther 9:13-17
Esther 9:5-6
Isaiah 34:5-7
Jeremiah 49:2
Jeremiah 50:18-27
Jeremiah 51:20-23
Lamentations 2:17-22
Ezekiel 35:7-8
Ezekiel 5:11-16
Ezekiel 6:13-14
Ezekiel 9:4-6
Hosea 13:4-9

Filicidal - a parent who kills, or causes the killing of, a son or daughter.
Genesis 22:2
Exodus 22:29–30
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 26:27–29
Deuteronomy 13:6–10
Deuteronomy 21:18–21
Deuteronomy 28:53
Deuteronomy 28:56–57
Judges 11:11-39
Jeremiah 19:9
Lamentations 4:10
Ezekiel 5:9–10
Zechariah 13:2–3

Genocidal - relating to or involving the deliberate killing of a large group of people of a particular nation or ethnic group.
Genesis 6:6-8
Numbers 21:2-3
Numbers 31:7-40
Deuteronomy 2:32-34
Deuteronomy 2:32-34
Deuteronomy 3:3-6
Deuteronomy 7:1-2
Deuteronomy 7:16
Deuteronomy 13:12-15
Deuteronomy 20:10-19
Deuteronomy 20:16-17
Joshua 6:21
Joshua 8:25-28
Joshua 10:28-40
Joshua 11:10-11
Joshua 11:12
Joshua 11:16-20
Joshua 11:21-22
Judges 1:22-26
Judges 18:1-28
1 Samuel 15:2-3
1 Samuel 15:7-8
1 Samuel 27:8-9
Jeremiah 50:21

Homicidal - of, relating to, or tending toward murder.
Exodus 21:15
Exodus 22:20
Exodus 32:27-29
Leviticus 20:10
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 24:13-16
Leviticus 26:21-22
Numbers 1:51
Numbers 25:4-5
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 17:12
Deuteronomy 18:20
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
1 Kings 18:39-40
2 Kings 19:35
2 Chronicles 15:13
2 Chronicles 28:9
Esther 9:5-6
Esther 9:13-17
Isaiah 34:5-7
Jeremiah 50:18-27
Jeremiah 51:20-23
Lamentations 2:17-22
Ezekiel 5:11-16
Ezekiel 9:4-6
Ezekiel 35:7-8
Hosea 13:4-9

Homophobic - having or showing an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13

Infanticidal - the act of killing an infant; the practice of killing newborn infants; a person who kills infants.
Exodus 12:29
Leviticus 26:21-22
Numbers 31:17
Deuteronomy 2:31-34
Deuteronomy 3:3-6
Deuteronomy 13:6-11
Deuteronomy 28:53
1 Samuel 15:2-3
1 Samuel 22:19
2 Samuel 12:13-18
2 Kings 2:23-24
Psalm 137:8-9
Isaiah 13:11-18
Jeremiah 13:14
Jeremiah 19:3-9
Ezekiel 9:4-6
Hosea 9:11-16
Hosea 13:16

Jealous - making others work extremely hard to meet unachievable standards in faithfulness and exclusive worship.
Exodus 20:4-6
Exodus 34:14
Deuteronomy 4:24
Deuteronomy 6:15
Deuteronomy 29:20
Deuteronomy 32:19-21
Joshua 24:19
Psalm 78:58
Psalm 79:5-6
Ezekiel 5:13
Ezekiel 36:5-7
Ezekiel 38:19
Ezekiel 39:25
Nahum 1:2
Zechariah 1:14-15
Zechariah 8:2

Megalomaniacal - a person who is obsessed with their own power.
Exodus 9:15-16
Exodus 14:4
Exodus 15:11
Exodus 15:6-8
Exodus 15:7
Exodus 40:35
Numbers 14:10-11
Numbers 14:21-23
Numbers 16:19
Deuteronomy 3:24
Deuteronomy 32:3
Deuteronomy 5:24
Deuteronomy 7:21
Deuteronomy 10:17
Deuteronomy 10:20
Deuteronomy 11:2
Deuteronomy 28:58-59
Deuteronomy 32:39
Joshua 4:24
1 Chronicles 16:24
1 Chronicles 16:25
1 Chronicles 29:11
1 Chronicles 29:11-13
2 Chronicles 7:2
Nehemiah 1:5
Nehemiah 9:32
Nehemiah 9:5-6
Job 36:22
Job 36:5
Job 37:4-5
Psalm 8:1
Psalm 19:1
Psalm 21:13
Psalm 24:7-10
Psalm 29:2
Psalm 29:3
Psalm 29:4
Psalm 29:5
Psalm 29:9
Psalm 48:1
Psalm 50:1
Psalm 57:5
Psalm 57:11
Psalm 68:34
Psalm 72:18
Psalm 72:19
Psalm 76:1-4
Psalm 76:7
Psalm 76:11-12
Psalm 90:11
Psalm 93:1-5
Psalm 95:3
Psalm 96:3
Psalm 96:4
Psalm 99:3
Psalm 102:15
Psalm 106:8
Psalm 108:5
Psalm 113:4
Psalm 138:5
Psalm 145:11
Psalm 145:12-13
Psalm 145:3
Psalm 145:5-6
Psalm 148:13
Psalm 150:2
Isaiah 2:10
Isaiah 2:19
Isaiah 3:8
Isaiah 6:1
Isaiah 6:3
Isaiah 24:23
Isaiah 33:10-12
Isaiah 40:5
Isaiah 42:21
Isaiah 49:26
Isaiah 60:19
Isaiah 63:14-15
Isaiah 66:18,23
Jeremiah 17:12-13
Jeremiah 32:18-19
Jeremiah 32:27
Ezekiel 20:25-26
Ezekiel 38:19-20
Ezekiel 38:22-23
Ezekiel 39:21
Ezekiel 43:2
Habakkuk 2:14
Habakkuk 3:3-6

Merciless - showing no mercy or pity.
Deuteronomy 7:1-2
Deuteronomy 7:16
Deuteronomy 19:21
Deuteronomy 25:11-12
Joshua 11:20
2 Chronicles 36:16
Isaiah 9:17
Isaiah 13:11-18
Isaiah 27:11
Jeremiah 11:11
Jeremiah 13:14
Jeremiah 20:16
Jeremiah 21:7
Lamentations 2:2
Lamentations 2:17-22
Ezekiel 5:11
Ezekiel 7:9
Ezekiel 8:18
Ezekiel 24:13-14
Hosea 1:6
Hosea 2:4
Hosea 9:15
Amos 1:11
Zechariah 11:6

Misogynistic - a person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.
Genesis 3:16
Exodus 20:17
Exodus 21:7
Exodus 22:29-31
Exodus 23:17
Leviticus 6:14-18
Leviticus 12:1-5
Leviticus 27:1-7
Numbers 3:15,28
Numbers 5:15-31
Numbers 30:1-8,16
Numbers 31:17-18
Numbers 31:25-35
Numbers 36:8-12
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
Judges 1:12-13
Judges 5:30
Judges 8:30-31
2 Samuel 12:11
Job 14:1-4
Job 25:4
Isaiah 19:16
Jeremiah 8:9-10
Lamentations 1:8-9
Ezekiel 36:16-17
Hosea 9:1
Nahum 3:4-6

Pestilential - of or relating to cause annoying, harmful, destructive, or tending to cause, infectious diseases to people, animals, or plants, especially crops or livestock.
Exodus 5:3
Exodus 9:15-16
Exodus 9:1-6
Exodus 9:8-10
Exodus 32:35
Leviticus 26:14-35
Leviticus 26:25
Numbers 11:33
Numbers 14:12
Numbers 14:36-37
Numbers 16:46
Numbers 21:6
Deuteronomy 28:15-38
Deuteronomy 28:41-67
Deuteronomy 29:22-23
Deuteronomy 32:23-24
1 Samuel 5:6
1 Samuel 5:9-12
2 Samuel 24:15
1 Chronicles 21:14
2 Chronicles 21:14-15
2 Chronicles 21:18-19
Psalm 78:50
Psalm 106:14-15
Isaiah 10:16
Jeremiah 14:11-12
Jeremiah 16:3-4
Jeremiah 21:6
Jeremiah 21:8-9
Jeremiah 24:10
Jeremiah 25:36-38
Jeremiah 27:8
Jeremiah 29:17-19
Jeremiah 32:36
Jeremiah 34:17
Jeremiah 38:2
Jeremiah 42:17
Jeremiah 44:13
Ezekiel 5:11-12
Ezekiel 5:15-17
Ezekiel 6:11-12
Ezekiel 7:15
Ezekiel 12:16
Ezekiel 14:12-21
Ezekiel 28:22-23
Ezekiel 33:27
Ezekiel 38:19-23
Amos 4:10
Habakkuk 3:3-6
Zechariah 14:12
Zechariah 14:15
Zechariah 14:18

Petty - characterized by an undue concern for trivial matters, especially in a small-minded or spiteful way.
Leviticus 19:19
Leviticus 19:27
Deuteronomy 23:12–14
Deuteronomy 28:17
Ezekiel 13:20

Pyromaniacal - an obsessive desire to set fire to things.
Genesis 19:24-28
Exodus 3:2
Exodus 9:22-24
Exodus 19:18
Exodus 24:17
Exodus 29:18
Leviticus 1:9
Leviticus 6:12-13
Leviticus 9:23-24
Leviticus 10:1-3
Leviticus 21:9
Leviticus 22:27
Numbers 11:1
Numbers 11:1-3
Numbers 15:2-3
Numbers 16:35
Numbers 21:21-30
Numbers 26:9-10
Deuteronomy 4:24
Deuteronomy 5:22
Deuteronomy 5:25
Deuteronomy 7:5,25
Deuteronomy 9:3
Deuteronomy 12:3
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Deuteronomy 32:22
Joshua 7:15-26
Joshua 8:8-28
Joshua 11:6
Joshua 11:9
Joshua 11:11
Judges 1:8
Judges 20:23,48
2 Samuel 22:2,9,13
2 Samuel 23:6-7
2 Kings 1:10-12
2 Kings 6:17
1 Kings 18:24,38
1 Chronicles 14:10-12
1 Chronicles 21:26-27
2 Chronicles 7:1-3
Job 1:16
Psalm 104:1-4
Psalm 11:6
Psalm 18:3-12
Psalm 21:9
Psalm 29:7
Psalm 46:9
Psalm 50:3
Psalm 78:21
Psalm 78:59-63
Psalm 97:1-5
Isaiah 1:7-9
Isaiah 9:19
Isaiah 26:11
Isaiah 29:5-6
Isaiah 30:27
Isaiah 30:30
Isaiah 30:33
Isaiah 31:9
Isaiah 33:10-12
Isaiah 34:8-10
Isaiah 42:21,25
Isaiah 65:5
Isaiah 66:15-16
Jeremiah 4:4
Jeremiah 5:14
Jeremiah 11:16
Jeremiah 17:27
Jeremiah 21:14
Jeremiah 34:22
Jeremiah 38:17-18,23
Jeremiah 43:12-13
Jeremiah 49:2
Lamentations 2:3
Ezekiel 5:4
Ezekiel 15:6-8
Ezekiel 20:45-48
Ezekiel 21:32
Ezekiel 23:25
Ezekiel 23:46-47
Ezekiel 24:9-12
Ezekiel 28:18
Ezekiel 30:8
Ezekiel 30:14
Ezekiel 39:6
Daniel 7:9-10
Hosea 8:14
Amos 1:4
Amos 1:7
Amos 1:10
Amos 1:12
Amos 1:14
Amos 2:2
Amos 2:5
Amos 7:4
Obadiah 1:18
Micah 1:7
Nahum 2:13
Zechariah 9:3-4
Zechariah 11:1-2
Malachi 4:1

Racist - showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
Exodus 11:7
Exodus 23:23–33
Leviticus 25:44–46
Numbers 25:5
Deuteronomy 7:1–6
Deuteronomy 7:6
Deuteronomy 23:3–6
Nehemiah 13:3
Nehemiah 13:23–30

Sadomasochistic - characterized by or deriving sexual gratification from both sadism and masochism. Sadism - the tendency to derive pleasure, especially sexual gratification, from inflicting pain, suffering, deliberate cruelty, or humiliation on others. Masochism - the tendency to derive pleasure or enjoyment, especially sexual gratification, from one’s own pain or humiliation.
Deuteronomy 8:6
Deuteronomy 10:12
Deuteronomy 32:39
1 Samuel 2:6
Job 6:8-10
Job 13:21
Job 23:15-16
Psalm 25:14
Psalm 33:18-19
Psalm 33:8
Psalm 34:11
Psalm 103:13,17
Psalm 112:1
Psalm 118:4
Psalm 128:1
Psalm 147:11
Isaiah 3:16-17
Isaiah 8:13
Isaiah 53:10
Jeremiah 10:18-19
Jeremiah 13:15-26
Jeremiah 45:3-5
Lamentations 1:8-9
Ezekiel 23:33-34
Hosea 6:1
Amos 3:6
Nahum 3:5

Slavemonger: Slave - one who is owned as the property of someone else, especially in involuntary servitude. Monger - a promoter of something unpleasant. A person who is involved with something in a petty or contemptible way.
Exodus 20:9–10
Exodus 20:17
Exodus 21:2–11
Exodus 21:20–21
Exodus 21:26–27
Leviticus 19:20–22
Leviticus 25:44–46
Judges 1:28
Judges 1:30
Judges 1:35

Unforgiving - harsh, hostile, not willing to forgive or excuse people's faults or wrongdoings.
Exodus 20:5
Exodus 23:21
Deuteronomy 23:2
Deuteronomy 29:20
Joshua 24:19
2 Kings 24:3-4
Proverbs 1:24-30
Isaiah 2:6-9
Isaiah 22:14
Jeremiah 11:14
Jeremiah 14:12
Jeremiah 15:1
Jeremiah 18:23
Lamentations 3:42-44
Ezekiel 7:3-4
Ezekiel 9:3-10
Ezekiel 24:13-14

Unjust - not based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.
Genesis 19:26
Genesis 20:18
Exodus 11:4-6
Exodus 12:29
Exodus 21:16
Exodus 21:17
Exodus 21:20-21
Exodus 22:20
Exodus 30:14-15
Exodus 34:6-7
Leviticus 20:15-16
Leviticus 21:16-23
Leviticus 26:21,28
Numbers 14:18
Deuteronomy 5:9
Deuteronomy 23:2
Judges 21:6-23
1 Samuel 2:30-34
1 Samuel 25:5-39
2 Samuel 12:11
2 Samuel 12:13-14
2 Samuel 21:4-14
1 Kings 14:9-12
1 Kings 21:28-29
2 Kings 7:19-20
2 Kings 17:25
2 Chronicles 15:13
2 Chronicles 26:19-21
Psalm 78:21-22
Psalm 78:31
Proverbs 30:17
Isaiah 13:11-16
Isaiah 14:21
Jeremiah 5:12-14
Jeremiah 8:9-10
Jeremiah 16:10-11
Jeremiah 29:18-19
Jeremiah 29:31-32
Jeremiah 32:18
Ezekiel 14:9
Ezekiel 18:24-26
Ezekiel 20:25-26
Ezekiel 21:3-5
Ezekiel 23:46-47
Ezekiel 33:12-13
Hosea 2:4-5
Hosea 13:16
Joel 3:8

Vaccicidal - to wantonly, and with disregard, slaughter animals for pleasure.
Exodus 9:1-3
Exodus 9:6
Exodus 12:29
Exodus 20:23-24
Numbers 7:87-88
Deuteronomy 13:15
1 Samuel 15:3
Ezekiel 32:13
Ezekiel 32:13-15

Vindictive - having or showing a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge.
Leviticus 26:25
Numbers 31:3
Deuteronomy 32:35
Deuteronomy 32:41-42
Deuteronomy 32:43
Joshua 22:23
1 Samuel 15:1-2
2 Samuel 4:8
Psalm 94:1
Isaiah 34:8
Isaiah 35:4
Isaiah 47:3
Isaiah 47:3-4
Isaiah 59:17
Psalm 137:8-9
Jeremiah 46:10
Jeremiah 50:15
Jeremiah 50:28
Jeremiah 51:11
Lamentations 3:64-66
Ezekiel 24:8
Ezekiel 25:14-17
Micah 5:15

And this is the short list because I am still finding other verses which I have not merged with this listing.

Check out Unpleasant Companion for more information.

Final Summation: Your god and its religion which you follow are Pure Evil. Judged, sentenced, and condemned to serve eternity in its own Hell.

rmfr

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

You have to use objective biblical morality in order to condemn Him.

No we do not. We can use the secular morality and legislation evolved over the years. The countries where religion still holds sway and is enshrined in their legislations are hotbeds of amorality: Honor killings(as described in your book), misogyny, slavery, backstreet abortions, homicides, genocides, the list goes on. Compare them to societies in Scandinavia, the UK, even Australia and a beacon in the South Pacific, New Zealand.

No need for your 'God', or any gods. Left alone humans respond to their evolutionary instincts and gang together for the 'greater good' Many tyrants and equally as many religions and societal systems have come to grief on the rocks of that simple but effective societal trait that humankind possesses.

Your god, by its own rules is amoral, devious, murderous and a sickening example to humans.

Sheldon's picture
"God can’t be objectively

"God can’t be objectively evil if He doesn’t exist. You have to use objective biblical morality in order to condemn Him."

Not this n9nsense again, shameful evasion.

YOU believe out AJ777, so please do desist comprehending the bible is irrelevant to your dismantling your claims.

Why is it immoral to torture a children? You claimed it was your opinion it was immoral, can you really not tell us why you think this?

Sheldon's picture
What objective biblical

What objective biblical morality?

So you think slavery is moral then, and rapine, and murder, even genocide, and torturing King David's baby to death?

"God can’t be objectively evil if He doesn’t exist."

He can be an evil concept, since evil is itself a concept, and of course people can buy into the evil BS in the bible, as they have done for millennia, and then do evil things.

Why is immoral to torture children? Surely you must have some reason why this is wrong? Otherwise your claims for objective morality seems particularly vapid.

AJ777's picture
You’re wasting a lot of time

You’re wasting a lot of time to justify your subjective dislike for a non existent person. Why is your opinion correct?

arakish's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

Because you cannot prove it is incorrect.

rmfr

xenoview's picture
@aj777

@aj777
So your god is a person now?

You theist have failed to prove your god is real.
No objective evidence has been provided.

BTW donut holes to exist, they sell them, so that would mean evil and Satan are real to you.

Sapporo's picture
AJ777: You’re wasting a lot

AJ777: You’re wasting a lot of time to justify your subjective dislike for a non existent person.

Whether an action is moral or immoral should not depend on the existence of a being.

However, the issue is that for theists like yourself, you are unable to say that there is no action so immoral you would not do it if you believed you were told to do so by your master.

The issue is that you believe you should follow a "voice in your head", no matter how immoral.

AJ777's picture


Whether an action is moral or immoral should not depend on the existence of a being.”
What does it depend on in your view?

I would likely not listen to voices in my head if I heard them.

Sapporo's picture
AJ777:“

AJ777:“
Whether an action is moral or immoral should not depend on the existence of a being.”
What does it depend on in your view?

Whether the action is moral or immoral.

AJ777: I would likely not listen to voices in my head if I heard them.

How would you know when to listen to "God", especially if your "objective morality" is not a fixed standard?

AJ777's picture
Objective morality is a fixed

Objective morality is a fixed standard by definition.

Talyyn's picture
@AJ777

@AJ777

For the second time... Would you explain to us the Kalam cosmological argument? How do YOU understand it?

Then, explain you god supposed benovolence and all-mightiness in relation to the Fall of Adam and Eve.

arakish's picture
@ AJ777

@ AJ777

Objective morality is a fixed standard by definition.

PROVE IT!!

Or shut up.

rmfr

Sapporo's picture
AJ777: Objective morality is

AJ777: Objective morality is a fixed standard by definition.

You've still not explained why you think an action can be "objectively moral" for one being, but "objectively immoral" for everybody else.

You've still not given an example of action so immoral you would not do it if "God" told you to, e.g. like Abraham being willing to kill a child.

You say "I would likely not listen to voices in my head if I heard them." but as there seems to be no action that is immoral in all circumstances according to your religion, you cannot even tell an "objectively moral" being apart from an immoral one.

Sheldon's picture
"I would likely not listen to

"I would likely not listen to voices in my head if I heard them."

Hmm, the problem I have here is that the bible and christian teaching hold up Abraham being will to eviscerate his own son as a human sacrifice to the voices in head as an example of good servant to of god. Even if it was meant as metaphor, and there is no evidence this was the case, it's still a pretty creepy and immoral idea.

How do you feel about your deity torturing King David's newborn baby to death because he was annoyed it was conceived in an adulterous affair? I mean you did say you thought torturing children was immoral right? Though for some reason you have since refused to tell us why you think this of course?

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