Mrs. Paul Owczarek:

The story in the link begins: “God created atheists” he said, “to teach us the most important lesson of them all – the lesson of true compassion.

I think it's the wrong way around. As atheist social apes, our innate sense of empathy naturally made us reluctant to engage in cruelty. However, those primal atheists invented god and became theists, thereby freeing themselves from the bonds of empathy and allowing them to commit the most unspeakable horrors.

The 1st reply where the Rabbi was asked by a student was supportive of atheism, & against theism.

@Mrs Paul

Pope Francis recently stated that an atheist will go to heaven If they follow their conscience. I wonder if that applies to ex Catholic atheists?

A comment on the Jewish position: I once heard a Rabbi say "The jew is committed to endless acts of compassion"*** Many admonitions can be found in the Mitzvot. (the full 613 commandments which make up the Law Of Moses) I have absolutely no issue with such an attitude. After all it was the way my Catholic mother lived her life. We didn't find out about most of her acts of kindness and compassion until after she had died.

As a 14 year old, I thought the Church had painted itself int a corner with the doctrinal definition of the conditions needed to commit a mortal sin (earning hell)

(1) It must be a grave matter

(2) The person must have full knowledge

(3) The person must give full consent.

I took issue with the matter of knowledge: "' I'm from another culture and have never heard of Jesus .I also like to eat my enemies. OR a Mayan who utterly believes human sacrifice is not only a great good, but absolutely necessary. Because these people don't know Jesus they do not sin. So for a start, why tell them? Who is to say their moral code is wrong FOR THEM? Not me. I reject the basic concept or moral absolutism.

At the time, I opined that if my conscience tells me an act is moral, not immoral, I commit no sin. Why then do I need the church?

Now this was nearly 60 years ago, so I don't remember clearly. I remember that the answer and caveat was to do with an INFORMED conscience.THAT I could indeed commit a mortal sin even if my conscience told me the action was moral.

I thought the argument was horse shit then and still do; the conditions are unequivocal. Another instance in which apologetics steps in to advise a thing doesn't mean what it says.

This whole attitude reinforces one of my basic opinions: That organised religion has perpetrated the greatest confidence trick in human history. That it has conned people believing it is both relevant and important, when it is neither . The supreme head of the Catholic Church has admitted that the church is irrelevant to salvation.

-Of course Catholic apologists will come swarming out of the wood work to explain how that wasn't what the Pope actually said or meant .The protestants will patiently explain that Catholics aren't real christians anyway, and to pay no attention to anything the Pope says

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*** can't remember when or where, so this claim must be taken as anecdotal evidence.

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"Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven"

In comments likely to enhance his progressive reputation, Pope Francis has written a long, open letter to the founder of La Repubblica newspaper, Eugenio Scalfari, stating that non-believers would be forgiven by God if they followed their consciences.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-assures-ath...

"Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!"

Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. The Church wants all men and women to be saved.

https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077

@Cognostic

---"without a thought of pleasing a god or receiving a heavenly reward, the idea that we are put here by a God to teach Christians humility turns my stomach"

Well, yes, I understand completely. I KNOW it's a thankless heraculean task, but SOMEBODY absolutely has to do it.

---IF only to teach that fuck witted preacher that loudly declaiming "I order the wind of god to blow over you" at the virus simply won't cut the mustard . (See my posts in Covid19 thread posted today 6 march) )

I would have said "stupid' too, but the bloke is allegedly worth $US760 million and has a private jet. I think he may be as stupid as a fox. .

So religions that use atheists as role models are in fact admitting that they are completely fucked up/