Antibiotic resistance bacteria

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curious's picture
Antibiotic resistance bacteria

In the same book I read it mentioned of antibiotic resistance bacteria. According to evolutionist theory accepted, the emergence of antibiotic resistance bacteria was due to the overused of antibiotic starting from 1949 ( although penicillin was discovered i 1928 ). But this book author pointed out they were two dead bodies of explorers who dies in 1800's where the antibiotic resistance bacteria was found in their body / bodies. How the evolution (adaption ) can be fit in here?
But what I read in this article is even further back in history.

Healthy comment always welcome.

"The gut bacteria inside 1000-year-old mummies from the Inca Empire are resistant to most of today’s antibiotics, even though we only discovered these drugs within the last 100 years."

"Her team studied the DNA within the guts of three Incan mummies dating back to between the 10th and 14th centuries and six mummified people from Italy, from between the 15th and 18th centuries. They found an array of genes that have the potential to resist almost all modern antibiotics, including penicillin, vancomycin and tetracycline."

"Their finding shows that genes that can confer resistance to antibiotics were relatively widespread hundreds of years before Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin in 1928. “It’s ridiculous to think evolution of antibiotic resistance began when penicillin was discovered,” said team-member Raul Cano, also at California Polytechnic State University, at the meeting while discussing the findings. “It’s been going on for 2 billion years.”"

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LogicFTW's picture
"Has the potential to resist"

"Has the potential to resist" just like any virus today.

Still though, antibiotic resistant stuff is friggin scary. If anything is going to keep me up at night, it will be that.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Correct, the antibiotic

Correct, the antibiotic resistant bacteria are there from the beginning. You can still argue they evolved, just that they evolved thousands of years ago. When antibiotics are given its killing the non-antibiotic resistant bacteria, allowing those that are resistant to thrive.

But bacteria are also unique in that they can also transfer their genes transversely, across to bacteria that don't have the resistance.

curious's picture
JohnB "When antibiotics are

JohnB "When antibiotics are given its killing the non-antibiotic resistant bacteria, allowing those that are resistant to thrive"

Make sense to me, but I heard it myself from a doctor who gave me the antibiotic - that would be best not to use antibiotic unless it is really necessary, because it triggers the bacteria to resist.

So, by right it is still common view that the antibiotic is the culprit for this resistance, considering that I heard this over than 15 years ago.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Lifeforms compete for

Lifeforms compete for resources. If you start killing off all the people with black hair, at first the population will shrink, but it will eventually rebuild its numbers out of what is remaining (non-black haired people). Although this might take a few hundred years since humans don't multiply that quickly. Notice the killing of the black haired people does not trigger some kind of magical event inside human beings; it just rewards (if you call survival a reward) those without black hair.

Lee Wallace's picture
Antibiotic resistant bacteria

Antibiotic resistant bacteria is a classic real world example of evolution. In fact it is an understanding of the scientific theory of evolution that is causing us to change the way we use antibiotics. Ideally by getting a C & S before prescribing. The reality Is over use of antibiotics have directly controbuted to the evolution of VRE & MRSA . A failure to recognise this is & has resulted in countless lives being lost, puls a significant economic burden.

This is why its important that people understand the scientific theory of evolution. Certainly when I'm explaining to patients why they're not being perscirivbed antibiotics I highlight the evolution bacterial resistance as the reason.

curious's picture
"Certainly when I'm

"Certainly when I'm explaining to patients why they're not being perscirivbed antibiotics I highlight the evolution bacterial resistance as the reason".

So the advice is used for the purpose of precaution then?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
"The inevitable conclusion is

"The inevitable conclusion is that human and veterinary antibiotic use does not produce resistance but rather selects for microorganisms with preexisting resistance mechanisms."

From the textbook of my microbio class.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Right; it produces an

Right; it produces an environment which is conducive (by removing competition) to the growth of resistant bacteria.

Lee Wallace's picture
Could you cite the textbook,

Could you cite the textbook, please?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Certainly, hope APA is fine

Certainly, hope APA is fine by you.

Madigan, M. T., Martinko, J. M., Bender, K. S., Buckley, D. H., & Stahl, D. A. (2014). Brock Biology of Microorganisms, (14th ed.). Boston: Pearson.

Lee Wallace's picture
Yes, for example, VRE was not

Yet, for example, VRE was not detected prior to 1980. You seem to understand the selection part of evolution but not the random mutation part. But who cares as the medical profession is correctly reacting in accordance to the evidence the scientific theory of evolution has provided. Furthermore most christians I know accept the scientific theory of evolution, they don't find it threatening to their theology at all. But maybe their religious faith is stronger than yours! Ultimatly attacking the theory of evolution just makes you look like a povayer of pseudoscience & conspiracy theories.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
No worries, I know there's a

No worries, I know there's a disconnect between doctors and laboratory techs, so I don't blame you. They basically do your job for you.

Lee Wallace's picture
It's odd that you seemingly

It's odd that you seemingly don't understand that mutations produce the resistance. While the environment determines servivlal. If the environment becomes rich in, for example, vancomycin then any mutation that provides resistance will be selected for. That's textbook evolution.

chimp3's picture
I am an RN. I work in long

I am an RN. I work in long term care and we are dealing with MDRO on a daily basis. I have some hopeful thoughts for you. Let's say I obtain a urinalysis and it reveals VRE. We will get a report that shows us what antibiotics the organism is resistant too and which it is susceptible to. The MD prescribes Levaquin for 10 days based on the sensitivity report. 10days later we reculture the urine. No growth of bacteria noted. Great. A week later the patient complains of dysuria. We rerest the urine again. This time it reveals e-coli which is susceptible to Vancomycin. The persons urinary tract js probably colonized with e-coli. What has happened within a months time is the e-coli has developed resistance to Vancomycin and then become susceptible again. Drug resistance is not permanent.

demik's picture
Of course, there are bacteria

Of course, there are bacteria resistant to antibiotics. But most often the problem of ineffectiveness of antibiotics arises from addiction. I am not at all surprised that many medical drugs can cause physical and psychological addiction in people.

Kreston's picture
I completely agree with the

I completely agree with the previous comment and can say that some medications and of course alcohol and drugs are seriously addictive. If you are suffering from any type of addiction, then you should learn more about cbt for addiction. Visit the website of a reliable rehabilitation center, which employs real professionals in the fight against various types of addiction and will definitely help you overcome this difficult period of life.

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