I am looking for help for a class assignment I have on worldviews. I'm hoping someone here would be willing to provide a brief explanation of atheistic views on selected questions. I realize no one person can speak for all atheists but if one person could take a bit of time to express their view, it would be very helpful. These forums seemed to be a good place to ask given the conversational activity. I have to say there is more timely conversation here than on world religion sites I have visited. Thank you in advance!
1. Origins: Where do we come from? How was man created? What does that mean for our place in the world?
2. Meaning: Is there a purpose to life? Is there a common purpose or is it subjective? How do we know what it is?
3. Morality: How do we differentiate between good and evil or, if you prefer, right and wrong? What is the "compass"?
4. Destiny: Simply what happens when we die? How are our lives fulfilled?
I know this sin't structured as a debate but again, I would appreciate any views people want to share. I may ask clarifying questions, though, to be sure I understand. Thank you again!
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@Barrel Rider.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt I will answer these few questions on behalf of ME and only me.
"1. Origins: Where do we come from? How was man created? What does that mean for our place in the world?"
No one knows what was the beginning but humans evolved from singles cells. Our "place" in the world is just one of many species that exist and have existed here!
"2. Meaning: Is there a purpose to life? Is there a common purpose or is it subjective? How do we know what it is?"
Meaning of life is what you make it no more no less. Of course, it's subjective! We know what it is because we create it.
"3. Morality: How do we differentiate between good and evil or, if you prefer, right and wrong? What is the "compass"?
Morality is subjective and has always been the creation of society. We are taught right and wrong. It doesn't come from any god, it isn't inherent.
"4. Destiny: Simply what happens when we die? How are our lives fulfilled?"
When we die we decompose. Fulfillment in life is defined by the person that lives it.
Now for my doubts. I doubt that you are writing a paper but am giving you the benefit of the doubt. BTW there is no "Atheism 101". Atheism is simply not having any belief or faith in a god or gods period. It isn't a faith, a political position, a religion, a belief, or a faith.
a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/Submit
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
synonyms: nonbelief, disbelief, unbelief, irreligion, skepticism, doubt, agnosticism; nihilism
"atheism was not freely discussed in his community"
Please don't insult me and start treating it like a religion, an organization, a faith, or a belief.
Hey, Myk, isn't it just a little ironic this guy pops in here in the typical "I'm doing a paper for school" fashion at about the exact same time we are having a discussion about this very thing in another thread?
Barrel Rider, just out of curiosity, did you even bother to read any of the other threads before posting your questions? You could have easily answered any of your questions simply by doing that. Would have been more entertaining for you, too. Just saying. Anyway, that being said, I'm reserving my answers until you show some amount of sincere interest.
Fooled by randomness.
@John Re: "Fooled by randomness"
Story of my life, man. Story of my life... *hanging head while shaking it slowly* lol
Consider this as well: there are many, many more accounts created here than you see posting. Perhaps many of these accounts are created by people who are questioning that which they’ve been told all their lives. Perhaps well thought out responses to the sorts of questions asked in the OP will help folks sort out things which are confusing them. Perhaps some of the answers will help them flip on the light, so to speak.
Just remember, when you are posting, you are not speaking to just one person.
I understand your skepticism, mykcob, and thank you for your providing your insight despite your doubts. I really am working on an assignment but I guess you will have to take that on faith (bad pun intended-sorry). I didn't mean to offend with "Atheism 101" either; it was meant as a handle to give an idea what my post was about. My questions are pretty basic and I wanted to express that; it's "101" for me.
I'd like to ask you more on the subjectivity of morality. There are certain behaviors that are commonly accepted as a moral law; let's take racism for a broad example. Favoring one person or group over another,or persecuting one group over another, because of skin color or ethnicity is wrong. I think there would be common consensus on that, or a majority anyway. Let's suppose I decide slavery or even just plain old discrimination is a good idea and I act on it. With subjective morality, does that mean I'm right and my actions are justified? Does my belief override the notion of slavery etc. being wrong? To go a step further, you might say I wouldn't be justified at all because society accepts discrimination as wrong. However, U.S. society used to accept slavery as a social good. After slavery ended, segregation was the established order. Do these societal values exonerate the enslavement of Africans and segregation of African-Americans, in this example? If the answer is no, isn't that saying there's an objective morality that was violated for those Africans who were enslaved?
I hope I presented my question clearly enough; I was trying to find a useful concrete example to focus on. Thank you again for your time.
We have had had many many threads about morality. I suggest you research them.
Morality is totally subjective. Each society creates their morality. Over time this morality changes. Slavery is a product of religion. All the white supremacist base their prejudices on christianity.
I won't elaborate any more on the subject.
Barrel Rider,
"1. Origins: Where do we come from? How was man created? What does that mean for our place in the world?"
People, like all animals, are just worms in specialized bodies that allow them to survive and replicate in a variety of environments. The essential core of all animals is the digestive tract, which is the basic worm. Human digestive tracts have brain cells.
"2. Meaning: Is there a purpose to life? Is there a common purpose or is it subjective? How do we know what it is?"
The purpose of life is to eat, shit, and sleep till we die. Anything else is a bonus and is not really necessary.
"3. Morality: How do we differentiate between good and evil or, if you prefer, right and wrong? What is the "compass"?"
Good morality is any behavior that allows us to eat, shit, and sleep without too much harm to ourselves.
Bad morality is any behavior that interferes with those activities.
"4. Destiny: Simply what happens when we die? How are our lives fulfilled?"
When we die we will be forgotten unless we have done something remarkable while alive. Even then we will just become figments of other people's imaginations. They will never know who we really were as living beings.
@Diotrephes: The purpose of life is to eat, shit, and sleep
You forgot fucking, boozing, humor....
Hi, Diotrephes:
Although I need to watch "Seinfeld" or something else comedic after reading your post, I thank you. To follow up, if humans are on par with worms whose sole purpose is to eat, shit and sleep, and I suppose procreate is in there somewhere, then why do we have aspirations? Why is there music, art, literature? Why would we even have science beyond how to eat, sleep and shit better? Why would we be concerned with questions of philosophy, morality and if there is a God or a Creator or not? In short, people have a longing for something beyond ourselves; where in your opinion does that longing come from?
Well, the currently prevailing theory is that consciousness and mental complexity originated as a byproduct of heightened neural activity, which arose through random mutation. This would account for our more complex thoughts like philosophy, mathematics, science, literature, etc. We do these other things because there came a new function for our brains, and we had the time, so to speak, to figure out how to use it constructively.
Recent studies into botany suggest that consciousness might even be a common factor among living things, but not to the extent that higher primates have it. Plants react negatively to stress, and even communicate within their own species when in distress. That freshly mowed lawn smell? Yeah, it's a chemical released by grass when it's in distress. And even more recent discoveries suggest that recently picked fruits and vegetables 'know' when they're being eaten.
Bearing this in mind, consciousness isn't really anything special. It's just another function of organisms, but it seems slightly more peculiar than most. At any rate, the longing you describe is simply our overactive imaginations and heightened capability for pattern recognition playing into our desire for the universe to be more ordered or meaningful than it actually is. Personally, I am just in awe that the minuscule amount of order actually present in the universe managed to create life, and by extension, created me at a time when there is still so much beauty of which to be in awe.
Barrel rider, humans are concerned and discuss morality and philosophy without having to pull out the god equation. I suggest you read the works of Plato and Socrates. And read "The Republic" by Plato.
It is religion that injects itself into different fields (such as philosophy and science) stating that they must adhere to religious dogma.
And we humans are not that "special". We are not the center of the universe, we are not the only beings that can use tools, have a sense of fair play (morals), and can plan ahead.
Humans have a large brain, that is the reason for our success as a species. And like many other animals we also have an imagination. But sometimes our brains run out of control, we invent imaginary scenarios or beings. It has been estimated that for the history of humanity, we have invented and have worshiped 8,000 to 12,000 gods.
Of course I have a longing beyond my immediate needs of survival and procreation. I enjoy good literature and films. I enjoy many things. But I try to keep my feet on the ground and remain rational. I believe that out there is other forms of life. But I do not accept that some people have been kidnapped by aliens and subjected to anal probes.
Our longings come from our very well exercised and capable imaginations. When we do not have immediate answers, we invent stuff.
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Barrel Rider,
We are just basic worms in specialized bodies. Our behaviors allow us to be successful. Horses have different aspirations from chickens. But all animals do the same things because they are basically the same animal.
@Barrel Rider:
I'm not going to waste time answering this quiz until I'm sure that you're really interested in discussion. Tell us more about your assignment on world views. Are you in high school or in university?
What kind of pupil starts an assignment on a word they don't even know the dictionary definition of? My formal education was fairly mediocre by most objective standards, but I'd probably have had a clout around the head for improperly defining the subject of an assignment. I'd certainly have failed the assignment then and there.
Sheldon, you asked, “What kind of pupil starts an assignment on a word they don't even know the dictionary definition of?“
I suspect it’s the kind that has been taught an incorrect definition. In addition, they may have been taught not to question their teachers. We see over and over that indoctrination, when started early, is shockingly effective.
1) Origins. I came from my parents. And so on. My lineage is defined by science and the well proven theory of evolution. Although we have not been able to define exactly when or where life began, we have proven that it is possible for life to be created.
2) Meaning of Life. I am biologically programmed to survive and propagate. Emotionally and intellectually I desire to be happy and make those around me happy. I also desire to live this life to it's fullest.
3) Morality. I live by the principles of "do no wrong" and "put yourself in the other person's shoes". I decide what is right or wrong. I definitely do not listen to an imaginary entity that (if real) that has been proven immoral, homicidal, bloodthirsty, and insecure.
4) Destiny. WTF? There is no destiny, I just live my life to it's fullest and have fun doing it.
Your turn Barrel Rider, some of us gave out our responses. What are your views on these four subjects?
And for the record, you are displaying arrogance or sheer ignorance by labeling this thread "Atheism 101". There is just one thing we atheists have in common, a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
I will keep this short incase it is a "drive by." Or other possibilities instead of an honest question.
1. Origins: Where do we come from? How was man created? What does that mean for our place in the world?
- We come from earth. Man was not created, we evolved. Our intelligence put us at the top of the food chain.
2. Meaning: Is there a purpose to life? Is there a common purpose or is it subjective? How do we know what it is?
No meaning to life. (my opinion as an atheist.)
3. Morality: How do we differentiate between good and evil or, if you prefer, right and wrong? What is the "compass"?
Popular opinion with self preservation through cooperation thrown in.
4. Destiny: Simply what happens when we die? How are our lives fulfilled?
Nothing happens when we die is the very likely and logical conclusion. We can fulfill our lives anyway we want to.
I agree with Algebe. You owe us a bit more information on your project. Tell us what school you are attending and a little about the classroom project.
"assignment I have on worldviews. I'm hoping someone here would be willing to provide a brief explanation of atheistic "
Start by properly defining it, it's not a world view. Atheism is the lack or absence of one single belief - theism.
A world view encompassing atheism would be informed by all manner of things. It's like someone asking for a stamp collectors world view. Worse even, it's like asking for a non-stamp collectors worldview.
@Barrel Rider.
You may wonder about the skepticism of your project. We have had a plethora of people claiming that they are doing a paper for a school assignment only to find that they were just theist that wanted a platform to proselytize and insult atheists. In other words, we were a target from the very beginning.
Most of us on this forum have college degrees many with post-graduate degrees. We rely on our experience of assignments for those degrees to determine if you are legitimately doing a paper.
As Sheldon said it is rare and not plausible that you didn't research the meaning of "atheism" beforehand. And here is why. When you write a college paper you must back up all your information. Testimony alone is not acceptable for a college paper. You must cite sources that can be verified whether they are or not. Most professors don't have time to check every source. Gleaning information from people on a forum does not allow your sources to be verified as we are anonymous. So there are 2 factors right there that suggest that you are not really doing an assignment. Another factor is that your "paper" is far to general it lacks specific focus. It's okay for an elementary teacher to have 4th graders write on a topic titled 'What is great about America' but college or even high school papers have a more specific focus.
If you have an ulterior motive please get it out now. It would be better for all concerned.
Myk, you wrote, “We have had a plethora of people claiming that they are doing a paper for a school assignment only to find that they were just theist that wanted a platform to proselytize and insult atheists. In other words, we were a target from the very beginning.”
I disagree. You say that it was ‘found out’ that their purpose was different than what was stated in their OP. No. Some people DECIDED that, nothing was, in fact, found out (discovered).
mykcob, thank you explaining; I was caught by surprise by some of the vitriol. Let me explain to the group here that I made my own mess in two ways:
1. Naivete: I had no idea the "false paper" thing was, well, a thing. My big concern was that I was breaching protocol by asking questions instead of debating in a Debate forum. I since had time to peruse the site more and got introduced to the concept of "drive-bys" referred to here. The only thing I can say is I can't fathom doing that so I didn't consider it at all in guessing how my post would be received.
2. I rushed my post, mostly because of #1, and skimped on details. Had I been aware of the gravity of the situation, I would have seen the importance of details in what I thought was a quick, simple exercise. I didn't fully think through how the questions would be read. The group is right to question what's going on; I can't fault the extremity of some of the responses because I set myself up for it.
Sorry--I may be out of date here-I had to leave my PC about 2 hours ago and just came back; not sure if anyone else posted. Anyway, having said all that, let me fill you all in so as to avoid continuing problems. My clumsy wording seems to have led to the impression that I am writing a college paper or something similar. I'm not. The course I am in is an online class on Christian apologetics, which I'm taking, in part, to strengthen my knowledge of my faith and the logical arguments in response to common objections to Christianity, many of which are discussed on this site. The assignment I addressed the group with is to practice the art of listening by asking people with different (i.e., non-Christian) views/beliefs (or non-belief) about the 4 topics in my OP and learn from the answers. For my class blog, I will summarize the interaction and what I learned from it. I'm probably copping out somewhat by interacting online instead of in-person with someone but between Easter vacation and my work schedule, the latter was becoming impractical. I couldn't see an alternative and this actually hasn't proven any easier. So here I am. Aside from what you and a couple of others answered seriously (thank you all again), the other responses taught me to pay attention to detail;. misunderstandings occur and communication impeded by lack of clarity. In honest self-assessment, I also realize I am nowhere close to almost everyone's ability to articulate my thoughts, which is clearly what I have to work on. There are threads in this forum I have an interest in, on my own-not class related, so I am planning to dip my toes in the water by posting there, as was suggested.
Lastly, I apologize for riling everyone up, it wasn't my intent. I thank everyone for their posts and the imposition it took to write them; I learned from them all.
"Lastly, I apologize for riling everyone up, it wasn't my intent."
Probably not your fault, as you are reaping what others have sown. If you stick around for a while people will get the ides you are genuine. However if you are doing an assignment on worldviews then focusing on atheism is a misnomer, as it is not a worldview.
As to your questions on morality, well all human morality is subjective, including the religions they create. We can make objective moral claims only if we make a subjective decision about what we want our morality to achieve. If we care about the suffering of others and want to maximise human well being then we can form morals that help achieve this. If human suffering is a secondary concern, and all you care about is mollifying a fictional bronze age deity, then adhering to archaic biblical and or koranic texts that are homophobic, misogynistic, xenophobic even racist, and endorse things like slavery murder and rapine is the way to go. Or you can waste time pretending they have a hidden esoteric meaning, that contradicts what the texts actually say, but forming moral codes around desperate rationalisations isn't for me.
Barrel Rider,
"The course I am in is an online class on Christian apologetics, which I'm taking, in part, to strengthen my knowledge of my faith and the logical arguments in response to common objections to Christianity, many of which are discussed on this site."
There are thousands of things to discuss about the ethnocentric biblical fairy tale. Two things to remember is that Noah's grandkids didn't believe in his deity and he was alive to tell them about his boat ride. They worshiped idols. The other thing is that the Bible says that people shouldn't believe in Jewish fairy tales (Titus 1:14).
So why do you believe in Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies?
@Barrel Rider
Okay, so it looks as though you may actually be sincere in your posts. Excellent. If that is true, then welcome to the AR. As you have discovered, we are a rather tight-knit group here. Nevertheless, we always enjoy having folks come in who truly want to learn and exchange information/knowledge. A little rushed for time at the moment, but I'll be back on a little later to join in the mix. Until then, keep looking around and make yourself at home. Much to be learned here if you keep an open mind.
Edit to add: By the way, no need to apologize. It is really no imposition for us to respond to anything on here. Matter of fact, it can quite often be rather fun and entertaining. LOL
Hey, Barrel, just a quick suggestion. Along with having discussions on this site, you may also want to watch some Atheist Experience episodes on YouTube. (If you haven't already.) While there are indeed many folks on here who are full of knowledge and great advice, Matt Dillahunty and his crew on The Atheist Experience do an outstanding job of fielding difficult questions and giving clear and concise explanations to them. Just an idea to maybe give you a slightly different perspective to help with your study/paper.
Kind of humorous to me that a christian apologetics class, sets out an assignment to gather opinion from people that call themselves atheists, but the teacher does not warn the students that if they go to online, to anonymous discussion boards that people there are going to demand concise questions, reasoning and so forth. I imagine it is quite difficult to locate a self proclaimed atheist in person where you live. So all the students will likely be forced to see online discussion for such an assignment.
It is a sad reflection on your religion when you just can't easily prove the existence of your god, but instead have to rely on complex hypothetical scenarios and arguments to sway others to your claims.
Your god has manifested itself in this physical world by (supposedly) providing miracles, floods, pestilence, and other acts. Logically, we can thus extract information and study the effects in order to determine their cause. In the same manner we can gleam information on the interior of our sun by examining other stars, physics, and direct observation of the surface, we should be able to determine this god character.
I will be very blunt with you, I despise apologists, especially those who use their skills to sway the minds of children, and rob them of their independence and self-worth. They also begin a journey of life that will always posses fear. I do not like it, and if I had the power, I would prosecute apologists for child abuse.
You beat a child, they will bruise but they will recover. Teach them religion, and they lose many admirable characteristics, and be scarred (and pretty messed up) for life. Both are despicable acts, but one inflicts major long term damage.
David wins the internet today for his last two paragraphs.
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