Atheists, Can you please explain this? PLEASE!

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miguel54's picture
Atheists, Can you please explain this? PLEASE!

An example of a famous testimony is a former Muslim by the name of Afshin Javid. He claims he was a former Muslim extremist who was in a jail cell in Malaysia. While he was meditating, Jesus appeared to him and quoted bible versus.

This is all over youtube. There are many videos where Muslims have some sort of "supernatural" intervention where they meet Jesus, and then they convert to Christianity. I am sceptical about these claims but I want to know your perspective on how these could be explained? In the videos many of the people cry and look very sincere so I have a hard time thinking they are just making everything up on purpose. I feel that they believe these interventions took place, whether they did in actual fact or not. I am just wondering how someone who has supposedly no knowledge of Jesus or the Christian faith could see Jesus if it was fake?

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Deforres's picture
People in extreme

People in extreme psychological distress can hallucinate.

mykcob4's picture
The thing is we don't have

The thing is we don't have any facts, just the word of the person. Give me proof that is verified by independent means and then I can answer your question. People make all sorts of claims. The story interests you because you like the outcome. The thing is what is really known? Only the testimony of someone making an impossible claim.
As Xavier de Forres said distress can cause hallucinations, but I wouldn't speculate.

Nyarlathotep's picture
chickenman - "I am sceptical

chickenman - "I am sceptical about these claims but I want to know your perspective on how these could be explained?"

Liars and lunatics.
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chickenman - "In the videos many of the people cry and look very sincere so I have a hard time thinking they are just making everything up on purpose."

Surely you have been fooled before by someone's fake sincerity in the past?
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chickenman - "I am just wondering how someone who has supposedly no knowledge of Jesus or the Christian faith could see Jesus if it was fake?"

I find it very doubtful that they had no knowledge of the Jesus/Christian faith. Do you know any adults who have never heard of Jesus?
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chickenman - "An example of a famous testimony is a former Muslim by the name of Afshin Javid."

Isn't that guy a known con-artist?

miguel54's picture
I like your answer the best

I like your answer the best so far. Do you think it is plausible to say that even Muslims who live in the Middle East have some exposure to the words of the Christian Jesus?

Nyarlathotep's picture
According to https://en

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

Jesus is mentioned in the Quran 93 times directly, and about that many again indirectly (although I can not testify to the accuracy of this, I don't know much about the Quran). Based on this it seems very plausible to me that they knew about Jesus.

mykcob4's picture
Where do you think Islam came

Where do you think Islam came from. It came directly from christianity.

miguel54's picture
but how would you explain a

but how would you explain a Muslim saying that Jesus told him "I Am" the way, the truth and the life". That quote is not in the Quran

Deforres's picture
As much as I hate repeating

As much as I hate repeating myself, HALLUCINATIONS. They aren't just visual, you know.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Clearly you just want to

chickenman - "but how would you explain a Muslim saying that Jesus told him "I Am" the way, the truth and the life"

Clearly you just want to believe this non-sense.

I bet you wouldn't purchase a car from one of these people. But you don't have any trouble believing that someone living in an area with millions of Christians, hasn't picked up a little Christian lingo along the way?
-----------------------------------
/e
Now I just have this to say: "There is no god other than Allah, Muhammad is his prophet."
How could I possibly repeat that sacred Muslim saying off the top of my head? I'm not a Muslim. Must have been a miracle? Right? Yeah, I bet you don't believe that do you?

I suggest you are willing to bend over backwards to believe the first case because it fits your world view; and you don't believe I was inspired by Allah because it doesn't fit your world view. And of course I wasn't inspired to say that; I picked it up from a movie.

mykcob4's picture
@chickenman

@chickenman
I can't nor should I. Why should I explain the rant of any individual? Malaysia is a free nation. Any person, no matter what their belief is, has access to information. People don't live in a cacoon just because they are muslim. You are assuming a great deal. I don't believe jesus told him anything, just like I don't believe that Muhammad moved a mountain.

chimp3's picture
Malaysia is not the Middle

Malaysia is not the Middle East.

algebe's picture
Malaysia is also a former

Malaysia is also a former British colony. I'm sure lots of Malayans and Singaporeans had opportunities to see and hear Christian rituals. Many would have converted to Christianity. In fact, that part of the world is a melting pot for just about every religion you can name.

algebe's picture
Everything on YouTube is 100%

Everything on YouTube is 100% real and true, isn't it?

I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think schizophrenia can produce symptoms like that, especially if the person has been taking drugs. You said that he was an "extremist." In my book, that's another sign of mental instability. Maybe he inhaled fumes from explosives. Being locked up, especially in solitary confinement, can make people delusional. So can malnutrition. I can't imagine that the diet in a Malaysian prison is all that great. Overcrowding in a warm, damp environment could also produce mold infestations, which might trigger mental symptoms. Ergot mold on crops used to cause mass hallucinations and religious mania in Britain in pre-modern times.

Jesus ranks alongside Santa, Mickey Mouse and Marilyn Monroe as one of the most recognized memes in history. It's interesting that these Muslims are seeing Jesus and not Mohammed. Is that because of the Islamic taboo on depictions of the so-called prophet?

ætherborn98's picture
There are many LIARS WHO ROB

There are many LIARS WHO ROB OTHERS OF THEIR MONEY on YouTube. They made me once think that the world was ending on March 9 2016 or something, and one person claimed that a meteor would hit the planet. The meteor video was two years old. TWO. YEARS. OLD. They get money when you watch their vids. Some may be telling the truth, but in at world of lies, how can we find the truth?

Deforres's picture
Well, religion certainly

Well, religion certainly doesn't help, as evidenced here, in the OP.

Dave Matson's picture
Anecdotal stories are

Anecdotal stories are worthless. How would you know that the elements of the story are correct? Might not you be dealing with a hoax, a whole-cloth lie, honest misinterpretation of the evidence, omitted or forgotten evidence, an evolved story due to repeated telling, or an out and out delusion. Without a secure base of facts, how can you hope to reach a conclusion? Ask yourself who stands to gain by the story. Now, there's something that might be worth investigating.

ThePragmatic's picture
@ chickenman

@ chickenman

I certainly suspect that this is a con. As Nyarlathotep mentioned, it's very unlikely that this Afshin Javid didn't have any previous knowledge about the character Jesus.

But he could be sincere.
My standard reply to those who want to discuss events like someone having met God or Jesus:

We humans seems to have a tendency to anthropomorphize everything around us, and we have various psychological defense mechanisms we utilize: denial, dissociation, confabulation, compartmentalization, projection, repression, displacement, rationalization and so on.

With all these mechanisms in place, the question becomes:

How do you suppose a person who has a dramatic inner event, like a salvation, could differentiate an actual such event from a psychological event like a hallucination?

Spiritual Witnesses - A video showing several different people from different religions who are convinced beyond doubt that their religion is true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go&feature=youtu.be&t=46

charvakheresy's picture
It is absurd that you would

It is absurd that you would ask us to prove the inaccuracies of a claim which you would rather believe because the claimant appeared to be selling it well rather than question the claimant head on.....

Shouldn't skepticism be the modus operandi in such situations. I wouldn't like to be duped by con artists like these.

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
Can I explain? Yeah, most

Can I explain? Yeah, most likely this guy is making it up. Now why he's doing it is debatable.

As an example, I'll throw out the example of glossololia. You see, I used to go to a pentecostal church. And in this church, it was considered normal during a service for the youth to channel the holy spirit and speak in tongues. And a lot of them did this act with a great gusto, they even shouted praises with tears streaming down their faces. I should know, I was even one of them.

However long since my days of being a Christian have passed, I realized that... this supposed ability to speak in tounges sounded a awful lot like Elvish from the Lord of the Rings, in that it had a small number repeating syllables, which made this supposed language sound very fluid and poetic. However... shortly after service all of us kids would leave and the ability to speak in tongues seemed to vanish abruptly.

So the next logical question is what happened to these emotionally sincere outbursts of speaking in an other worldly language God bestowed apon us? The truth of the matter is that slowly through the sermon the adults would praise the children showing the most energetic and emotional responses, and we'd all urge each other to be more responsive to the "spirit". In essence, we'd all push each other to do the things we thought entailed being in touch with god, because we were taught that was the point of church and what was good.

Chances are, if you dig about, your going to find some other, less spectacular reason... often based on social pressure and norms... for why this man had cooked up a story about seeing Jesus.

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