Imagine to yourself that in the United States of America, there was NO longer a government. What would it be like? Would it be chaos, or would it be peaceful? Now there would no longer be a need for paying taxes, no need to work or go to school, no curfew annnnnd MORE freedom, sounds great right? But at the same time, we will have no police or military to protect us, there is no more justice system and no more punishing criminals. People are allowed to roam the streets and pillage and plunder, and there is no higher authority(Government) to stop them. Would anyone want to live in that kind of country......honestly? This is what unbelievers are like before God, they think they will be happier without someone telling them what to do. Yall are always asking, "why do we need a bible to teach us how to live". Why? Because it keeps everything running smoothly and in order, just like the government analogy. Those are just my two cents.
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First let's start with you demonstrating that there is a god to tell me what to do. I'd really like to get that point cleared up before attempting to go into anything else in your post.
There NEEDS to be a god in this universe. Just as a small child needs guidance from its a parent and we citizens of America need the government to keep this country going. Human beings are not born with knowledge, they learn it from someone/something that has more wisdom/knowledge than them.
Oh, Timmy, how amusing...
There NEEDS to be a god? Which god? Your god? Any god? Will the FSM do?
Prove it.
And, btw, everything after the wild assertion you have made in the first sentence of your post does not constitute proof.
Eventually you will either admit you have no real proof and acknowledge that all you have is a belief, or you will go away. Unless, of course, you actually enjoy being bested at debate.
"And, btw, everything after the wild assertion you have made in the first sentence of your post does not constitute proof."
Please explain your reasoning and don't be bias. I brought forth a scenario of what it would be like it we didn't have a government(higher authority) and what would the consequences be if we didn't.
Oh for cryin' out loud! Your scenario is not, I repeat, NOT, proof. It is a poorly crafted attempt to arrive at a firm conclusion based on a weak comparison.
Still waiting for an answer to this: There NEEDS to be a god? Which god? Your god? Any god? Will the FSM do?
Each generation has passed down its wisdom and to the one after it. And if you go back to the beginning of both of these there was a human(or one of our various ancestors) who asked a few variable questions: 1) why? 2) what does "it"(variable object) do 3) what makes "it" do that? 4) why does "it" do that? And lastly 5) What effect does "it" have on me?.
This is the birth of our human knowledge, not a creator.
You, Tim Melnik, have just used a fallacy, a flaw in logic, thus defeating your own claim. The fallacy you used is The Strawman Fallacy. The general Idea of the fallacy is that you have simplified the argument, thus making it easier to agree with or prove. Here is a video that will teach you all about the fallacy
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cGZkCPo7tC0
The most atheistic countries on the planet have the best societal health rates. This means that your strawman argument fails to do anything but make you look silly.
Since when did health rates come into the picture. Did i not bring forth a logical agruement, please explain why i look silly and dont be bias.
What does atheistic societal health rates have to do with absolute freedom? About the same amount as atheism does. You are the one conflating atheism with absolute freedom, not us. Being an atheist does not make one an anarchist, so your argument is a strawman that makes you look silly.
I never said that atheists are anarchists, i was simply using the government(a type of higher authority) as an example, as an analogy of what atheists are like before God.
A. We don't use the bible to run society, we actually have a clause preventing that.
B. If we don't believe in your supposed god, why should people speaking in its name make any difference to us.
C. We are "told what to do", they are called laws, and predate your religion.
When you make an analogy, it must be pertinent to the subject.
Your analogy is flawed on many levels.
Apart from that:
"Because it keeps everything running smoothly and in order" (the bible)
NO it doesn't, try killing your neighbor if he works on Sunday.
"Your analogy is flawed on many levels."
Please explain in just a few minor details, dont just say and it and not back up your statement.
here let me lay it out for you
Parents(Higher Authority/////Child
Government(Higher Authority)/////Citizens
God(Higher Authority)/////Humans
"Your analogy is flawed on many levels."
How is it flawed?
I will show you how much flawed it is:
I can make a similar stupid analogy that it's data is not related directly:
Parents( is created from)/////Child
Government(is created from)/////Citizens
God(is created from)/////Humans
Same concept same "Affirming the Consequent" Fallacy
"Affirming the consequent is a formal fallacy that takes the following form:
If A then C, C; hence A.
The error it makes is in assuming that if the consequent is true, then the antecedent must also be true, which in reality need not be the case. For example, People who go to university are more successful in life. John is successful; hence he must have gone to university. Clearly, John's success could be a result of schooling, but it could also be a result of his upbringing, or perhaps his eagerness to overcome difficult circumstances. More generally, one cannot say that because schooling implies success, that if one is successful, then one must have received schooling."
And if you are still in search for an analogy try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaFZQBb2srM
Tim - "There NEEDS to be a god in this universe."
Sounds like you really need/want there to be one.
No its just logical, just as there needs to be a Steve Jobs(intelligent creator) to create the iphone so there needs to be a god since this world is soooooo complex and beautiful.
lol, so how complex is it? 15? 177.1? potato?
See for yourself, how everything is so fine tuned. Fine tuning doesn't happen by accident/millions of years. Why are you so afraid to admit that?
So you can't tell us either.
Wow, that is so conceited an outlook. Assuming that everything is so well tuned now that you are alive to observe it all. "Millions of years" isn't a concept you can have a realistic comprehension of.
If it's all so fine tuned, why can't the human eye see better than HD in it's entire field of vision, why isn't that field of vision 360 on the x and y axis, why is its vision limited to red through violet, why can it not detect microscopic particles, why doesn't it shoot heat rays to warm up our pot noodle?
Fine tuned? I think not.
Tim Melnik advises us: "See for yourself, how everything is so fine tuned."
I think you have the wrong end of the telescope... We are fine-tuned for our surroundings, not the other way around.
Tim.
it would be logical for there to be a designer of the world, if the world showed evidence of being designed, but it doesn't.
Are you serious? Who designed your car? Millions of years/star dust or an engineer? Come on use your head
Are you seriously comparing an item composed of assembly parts to a planet or a living, growing, biological creature that can reproduce? Have you ever found your serial number or the words "Made in Taiwan" written on your butt? Did your dog come with a manual in seven different languages? Batteries sold separately? Or perhaps if you zoom out on Google Earth, you can find the word "Goddittit" written in the Rocky Mountains?
"Who desiged your car?" - How does that have anything to do with God? Please, make the connection?
You have already been informed that you are making a fool of yourself.
You don't have your analogy correct to begin with.
Do you know the definition of atheism?
Have you actually read your bible?
Do you actually think it's the bible and god who is keeping you from roaming the streets to "pillage and plunder"?
Go back to the drawing board. Read your bible (all of it!). Learn the definition of atheism.
And have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz_ryHYc_Pc
Dam, that video is becoming popular :)
As always pragmatic hits the right buttons.
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